Overloading Trains

[Weißbrot]

Is there a maximum of cars/weight you can pull with a locomotive?
Will it get slower, use more fuel/electricity, will it need more maintenance?

I am asking because I want to build my new republic (with full realistic settings and maintenance and trash) completely weather independent by train and I bought the class 700 (the pig).
A tiny shunting clocomotive and I am not sure if it will be strong enaught for the trains I'll need.

[Chesher]

For now, unfortunately, almost none. There is a dependence of acceleration when cornering on the mass, but very slightly. You can safely run the smallest train with 100 wagons, neither speed nor fuel consumption will change)

[Silent_Shadow]

Trains become noticeably slower as you add more mass to the train, but this can be combated by adding more locomotives to it. The real limit to a train's length in this game is the length of the building it is assembled in.

The little shunting pig loco you bought is probably good for 5 or 6 cars if you don't mind slow acceleration.

[Chesher]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

Trains become noticeably slower as you add more mass to the train, but this can be combated by adding more locomotives to it. The real limit to a train's length in this game is the length of the building it is assembled in.

The little shunting pig loco you bought is probably good for 5 or 6 cars if you don't mind slow acceleration.

I tested Prague with wagons of 400 tons
didn't notice the difference

the only thing that, for simplicity of the test, I did not load the wagons with cargo, there were a couple of wagons with steel and the rest loaded locomotives for transportation (the total mass of the train is 400 tons) and drove between the depot measuring the fuel consumption of a large locomotive and a small.

even if there is some threshold value after which the drop is noticeable, then it is not enough. It seems to me that for the test I had a large load for the smallest locomotive.
But your post needs more tests :) thanks

[Silent_Shadow]

This was already tested on March ninth for the same question:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2944584762
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2944584815

Acceleration is indeed slower as you add more weight or reduce power, but it doesn't really matter unless you want to improve throughput of a specific building, like the train aggregate loading facility or the steel mill, because most of the time a train does not need to accelerate.

[Chesher]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

This was already tested on March ninth for the same question:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2944584762
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2944584815

Acceleration is indeed slower as you add more weight or reduce power, but it doesn't really matter unless you want to improve throughput of a specific building, like the train aggregate loading facility or the steel mill, because most of the time a train does not need to accelerate.

To be honest, complex calculations, such as acceleration, uphill with a degree, etc. are not always useful)

Usually I have a simple test, there is my small town and a depot, 1 km customs: I let the train train, it arrived and spent 50 liters. The second train, 5 times more expensive, also arrived and spent 350 liters.

I have a question what is happening and why should I use expensive and voracious trains in the economy.
I'm not an expert on trains, but I feel that in reality there is a point)

[Chesher]

Perhaps technically and everything is correct, but due to the scale, something is wrong. Otherwise, I don’t understand why there are large locomotives in the world if a small one can transport cheaper with a slight drop in acceleration (I don’t feel this in the game).

and do not use Prague К700 as a cheat

[Thomas_Mertzen]

I guess these mechanics will be rebalanced before the launch of 1.0

[Chesher]

Originally posted by Thomas_Mertzen:

I guess these mechanics will be rebalanced before the launch of 1.0

I really hope

[MG83]

Originally posted by Chesher:

For now, unfortunately, almost none. There is a dependence of acceleration when cornering on the mass, but very slightly. You can safely run the smallest train with 100 wagons, neither speed nor fuel consumption will change)

Wrong.
trains with heavier accelerates slower and burns more fuel. in game trains limited to a certain length . 400 ish something i forgot exact length. (max 20 30 wagon depending wagon length)

in reality Speed of train actually does not dependant on train mostly. It is dependant on the rails construction quality.

Bonus info : mallard train loco reached 207 kmh speed as a steam loco.

the issue author suggested exist in real life situations where trains are heavily loaded and reaches to over Kilo meter lengths. this is solved by adding more locos to mid sections.

[Beast of War]

There definitely is a maximum of pulling power as the saying goes " the chain is as weak as the weakest link" That certainly goes for cargo trains as most literally use chains to connect, and these chains will snap under too much strain. Thereby - and certainly when climbing - the mass they can pull is limited.

I read that in my own country, before my time, four multi-traction 1180 KW diesel locomotives were regularly used to pull some 4000 tons of ore wagons. With chains. So it is possible. If you accelerate very slow the chains can handle even that. There are no mountains or hills in my country though.

As any of you that played with model trains know : if a bend in the track is too tight you will derail long trains as the mid section will try to cut off the bend. So that is a length limiter too. I am pretty sure the game ignores this,as bends in the track can be laughably tight.

So don't roll over each other arguing, this game is fantastic but not always overly realistic.

By the way, i was a real life train engineer, driving among others a 1500 KW 84 ton electric locomotive with varying loads. However i never pulled more then some 700 tons which is considered "light" I am thus unfamiliar with chain limits myself ( my locomotives carried a spare chain, thats about it lol ) but i know in cargo operation that is a factor that should be on your mind.

[Chesher]

Originally posted by MG83:

Originally posted by Chesher:

For now, unfortunately, almost none. There is a dependence of acceleration when cornering on the mass, but very slightly. You can safely run the smallest train with 100 wagons, neither speed nor fuel consumption will change)

Wrong.
trains with heavier accelerates slower and burns more fuel. in game trains limited to a certain length . 400 ish something i forgot exact length. (max 20 30 wagon depending wagon length)

in reality Speed of train actually does not dependant on train mostly. It is dependant on the rails construction quality.

Bonus info : mallard train loco reached 207 kmh speed as a steam loco.

the issue author suggested exist in real life situations where trains are heavily loaded and reaches to over Kilo meter lengths. this is solved by adding more locos to mid sections.

Wrong.
Train speed depends on the train
The rails are already clear, we don’t discuss them
I exaggerated about 100 wagons, they won’t fit in the depot and won’t run them)

What specifically is wrong? The fact that if you start a small train, then it will calmly bring 6 wagons with 400 tons of cargo for 50 liters of diesel fuel, like a large locomotive but for 350 liters? This has been eye tested.

[Chesher]

Originally posted by Beast of War:

So don't roll over each other arguing, this game is fantastic but not always overly realistic.

Actually, I do not demand 100% realism, but some distortions confuse me. And my question why should I use a large and voracious locomotive in the game has not been resolved. With cars, by the way, there is also an imbalance with fuel, but not so noticeable.

[Beast of War]

Originally posted by Chesher:

Actually, I do not demand 100% realism, but some distortions confuse me. And my question why should I use a large and voracious locomotive in the game has not been resolved. With cars, by the way, there is also an imbalance with fuel, but not so noticeable.

Fuel usage in trains is a very complex thing. It is not comparable to road vehicles. That has to do with MUCH lower rolling resistance of hard steel on hard steel ( no tire deformation and asphalt-rubber rolling resistance ) and almost negligible air resistance* against the sheer mass pushing through it.

Once a rolling train reached it's desired speed on a flat trajectory it will keep its speed almost constant for many miles/kilometers free rolling without using engine power, bleeding speed only very slowly. This is a law of nature. ( object in motion will try to maintain it's speed and course, only forces working agianst it - resistances in this case - can change it's state )

Free rolling it will only use the fuel of a stationary engine, an electric engine will use not take power for the engine at all. ( and will even generate electricity braking, feeding it back to the wire ! )

Of course when climbing or accelerating fuel usage ( or electricity usage ) will be sky high. My point is when not climbing or acceleratiing, trains can roll over dozens of miles/kilometers without using ( lots of ) fuel. And surprise surprise : heavier trains will benefit from free rolling more then light trains, as it is mass set against resistances.

* There is but a few exceptions in air resistance ( and thus fuel consumption ) : empty bulk wagons cause MASSIVE air turbulence and thus air resistance. The frontal air resistance and sucking turbulence behind trucks that causes them to have high fuel consumption does not hinder trains : their mass is so high the frontal surface air resistance and rear surface vacuum or turbulence suction of the train is negligible put against the pushing force of the mass BUT a strong side wind blowing air between the wagons WILL slow the train down.

[Chesher]

Thanks, this is very interesting and rewarding!
I also believe that big locomotives in life are needed to launch, push and pull uphill without problems and maybe why)

[Beast of War]

Originally posted by Chesher:

Thanks, this is very interesting and rewarding!
I also believe that big locomotives in life are needed to launch, push and pull uphill without problems and maybe why)

I doubt - prolly just like you - such realism is in the game though. It is probably a fuel bug just like you say all the same.

it would be fun if the fuel bug does mimic RL fuel usage though. That is why i wrote that wall of text :-))

Big locomotives or multiple multi-traction ones. The game is realistic enough you can use multiple locomotives in one train, like the ones i mentioned ( 4 diesel locomotives pulling 4000 ton ore trains IRL ) I have however not checked if their combined power is cumulative as it should be. Several locomotives pulling in combined effort should have some effects on individual locomotive fuel usage as well. But i think that really goes into complexity not needed as it is not a hyper realistic railway game.