Workers not using bus stops?

[Copperhead]

I am back playing WR:SR, and I am having an issue that I have never had in the past.
In previous times I played, If I setup a remote industry or work place (IE Mine or Woodcutters) all I need to do is setup a bus stop(or train) for "workers only" and have a bus pick them(workers) up and drive them to the work place...simple yes...basic game concept.

Now when I set a bus stop for workers, no one shows up. The only way I have been able to get any workers is to manually tell a building to use that stop for workers. Also if I remove the restrictions and allow anyone to use the bus stop, it is still not receiving any workers, but passengers and students show up.

Not to get to convoluted(I do not know the exact game mechanic) but I have reduced my main city area to 42 open work positions.


42 positions assuming 3x8hr shifts available for workers is 126 work spots available a day.(again not sure if this is how it works)

42 Jobs
126 jobs w/shifts and I have 335 workers.
335 worker minus the 126 shifts would be 209 unemployed workers...but my unemployment is 0%
209 unaccounted for workers and 0 unemployment and no one is going to the bus stops for work...???

Any way not sure if any of those numbers are relevant and do not wish to create a game mechanic thread/discussion.

I need some help understanding why the bus stops are not working. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.

EDIT
Note - I also stopped all construction and still no one is using the bus stops.

[kyonkun]

It sounds like you don't have enough workers. The "three shifts" thing isn't true, that's not how the game works. You'll normally need 4-6x as many workers as worker positions, depending on your difficulty settings, transportation setup, and the efficiency with which you fulfill citizen needs.
You should post some screenshots so people can see what is going on, but at first glance it seems that with only ~300 workers you just don't have enough to fill all the open spots around your town. I would guess you have more like 60-80 worker positions available so no worker ever finds the opportunity to queue at the bus stop. It could also be that you mistook the population value for the worker value (workers are typically not more than ~60% of the total population in an established republic).

[Copperhead]

@Kyonkun
Thanks for the reply. You are probably correct about the lack of workers. My total pop is 516 w/335 workers. I keep testing and shutdown almost all jobs except power plant and finally workers starting using the bus stop. I have played this game in the past and it seemed that workers would evenly distribute them selves between local work and bus stops...I guess they prioritize local jobs over the bus stops now. Thanks.
I last played In may of 2021 so I am sure there have been many updates. v116 - v121 now

[hdparm (D.)]

Originally posted by Truck MackTruckerson:

I keep testing and shutdown almost all jobs except power plant and finally workers starting using the bus stop.

In case you have trouble later: if the power plant is within walking distance from housing, your workers may soon start dying from pollution (if it is enabled). Polluting buildings should be 1 km or more away.

[Copperhead]

Originally posted by hdparm (D.):

Originally posted by Truck MackTruckerson:

I keep testing and shutdown almost all jobs except power plant and finally workers starting using the bus stop.

In case you have trouble later: if the power plant is within walking distance from housing, your workers may soon start dying from pollution (if it is enabled). Polluting buildings should be 1 km or more away.

Ah great... thanks for the heads up. I do have pollution on.

[ling.speed]

At 335 workers and 0 unemployment i'd open up the apartment building and start clicking on the pops. About 1/4th of them should be doing something useful at any given time.

Maybe they just go to construction sites? They should not prioritize them afaik, but maybe there is an issue with the bus route as well, (worker needs to know of a possible destination before he shows up at the stop i think). If the save is old, maybe your buildings "broke" try backuping the save and rebuilding. (edit: acutally 2021 isn't that old, they should work, so do that only as last resort)

Also do you have kindergarden? Lack of one can put a dent on workforce too. As are other outstanding issues like health which can be impacted by a lot of things.

[Elessar_warrior]

You are not taking into account that workers have 2/3 of free time and only 1/3 work time.
So you have 335 work-able people but at any given time you only have 112, minus some more in transport (walking).

[potski]

Originally posted by kyonkun:

... The "three shifts" thing isn't true, that's not how the game works.

You have to demonstrate this. The three shifts is stated again and again in YT videos. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you have clear evidence from testing that this is not the case, then you need to carefully explain this and convince people that either they have been wrong, or the devs have changed the mechanics without telling anyone.

I suspect that neither of you are entirely right. That you base this on watching the factory interface and don't see 10 people turn up for work, who then all leave 8 hours later and are replaced by another 10 workers, then another 10. Or I think the game actually uses 60 "hours" in a day, so it would be three lots of 20 "hours". Which is how factories would most likely work in real life if operating in traditional shifts - all of the workers on a particular shift turn up for work at the same time.

Rather we see 7 arrive then a couple of hours later, two arrive, then one, then some leave etc. etc. But as long as workers are not at work for longer than one third of the day, then I think the simplistic description of that as "three shifts per day" holds. You need AT LEAST three deliveries of workers per day by bus or train to operate at full production.

And I think it probably holds in the sense that even if people spend a long time queuing at a bus stop or train platform, and sitting on a bus or train, then it doesn't matter to them as long as they arrive at work before the maximum travel time expires. When they get to the factory or mine they will spend a third of their day there. But I haven't tested that, and I am relying on my interpretation of what is said by YT'ers.

[potski]

Originally posted by ling.speed:

At 335 workers and 0 unemployment i'd open up the apartment building and start clicking on the pops. About 1/4th of them should be doing something useful at any given time.

Maybe they just go to construction sites? They should not prioritize them afaik, but maybe there is an issue with the bus route as well, (worker needs to know of a possible destination before he shows up at the stop i think). If the save is old, maybe your buildings "broke" try backuping the save and rebuilding. (edit: acutally 2021 isn't that old, they should work, so do that only as last resort)

Also do you have kindergarden? Lack of one can put a dent on workforce too. As are other outstanding issues like health which can be impacted by a lot of things.

All good advice, except I think that workers will turn up at a bus stop or train platform only if they have no alternative work available to them in walking distance, EVEN IF THERE ARE NO BUSES OR TRAINS. So it doesn't matter whether if buses are running those buses only accept passengers/students/tourists or are going to places where there are no factories/mines, as the workers don't know this when they set out from home and walk to the bus stop.

This distinction is an important part of troubleshooting. The fact that no-one arrives at a factory you should start by seeing if there are workers waiting at the bus stop. If there are not, it is because you have more open employment positions in the city. than workers available You need:
- More workers living in the city
- More kindergarten so more adults can go out to work instead of caring for young children
- Less workplaces in the city. Look for things like cinemas saying their workforce is 10, but they don't have many visitors. Reduce the workforce to 3-5. Fire stations in small cities with only a single firetruck do not need dozens of workers.

And note that if you add too many kindergartens then that can have the opposite effect that you want, as each kindergarten needs people to work there. Don't build a kindergarten because a handful of people in the city say they can't work. They do not get unhappy/unhealthy etc and "escape" because they are staying home with kids. Specifically, kindergartens and some other workplaces need well educated workers, and you might need to import those.

Still, the general idea is that a small city should never have all of the vanilla assets used and then allowed to operate with maximum employment. Those vanilla assets will say they "need" 100s of adults in the city just to work in the shops, cinemas, sports halls etc.

Or just tell a whole apartment block, no I don't want you finding workplaces in walking distance, even if there are local jobs, please go to the bus stop or train station. And as soon as you do that you should see workers waiting there.

Now, if there are workers waiting and they don't actually get on a bus, and after a few hours leave, then you may have a problem with the settings of the bus line, or a problem with the factory. Workers won't get on the bus if the factory is not operational, if it has no power or water,

But they will get on the bus if the factory is:
- Operational but not currently operating, for example if it has no import of resources or the export is full
- Too far away. They will ride the bus or train for four hours. If they still haven't arrived then they will teleport off the bus or train and go home. So, if you see workers turn up at the bus stop, then get on the bus, follow the bus and check they get off at the stop you intend. Don't use a circular bus route that visits many stops, they might get off a stop still within the city and go work in that cinema where you already have plenty of workers. I generally have a route carrying passengers/students/tourists around the city, and then have a dedicated line that is told to pick up workers only and go straight to the factory I need them, and unload them all.

[potski]

Originally posted by Truck MackTruckerson:

Note - I also stopped all construction and still no one is using the bus stops.

I don't think construction requiring workers matters. You basically need unemployed workers who can't find local jobs before they will go to the bus stop whether to be picked up by a bus line or a construction office. Unless the construction site is within walking distance, then it would act like any local workplace and reduce those who can't find local employment.

Many construction sites can take 50-60 workers easily. Rather than stop important construction, then reduce the numbers that are allowed to work there. Many sites can be successfully completed with a fraction of the vanilla workers the interface suggests IF THEY HAVE THE RIGHT MECHANISMS. So don't leave 50 workers to lay gravel on long stretch of road, tell it they can only have say 10 and make sure they get an excavator or bulldozer. 10 workers with an excavator can do the same work as 55 workers with nothing. And if there is an excavator with a "speed" of 20 then 20 workers can do the same work as 110. But 21 can only do the same as 111, 22 as 112 etc. So if you only have one excavator available, or there is only one slot for a mechanism on the site, then there is never really a good reason to allow more than about 20 people to turn up for work there. And much less might still get the job done in a reasonable time.

[potski]

My last point that I forgot about including above, is that you do not NEED any workers at all to work on a farm or a gravel or bauxite mine. Your gravel mine might suggest that you need 10 workers, but it will operate perfectly well with none. So I assume you are not trying to bus workers to a gravel mine? You might want to bus them to a quarry site, where you have a gravel mine AND gravel processing, but don't bus anyone to just a gravel or bauxite mine.

Coal and iron ore mines don't work like that, nor do wood cutters which in parts of the game are described as "mines". All three of these will not operate without workers.

You cannot bus workers to a farm, but they can walk to a field or get off a bus stop near a farm, not to go to the farm itself, but to the field(s).

So you need to be careful if you establish a small city and drop fields around the edge. People will go and work in those fields, unless you tell them not to by setting the workers to zero. That is fine, no workers are required to make tractors, harvesters etc. operate at full efficiency. I suspect a field will be sown quicker if there is a tractor and 10 workers, but not so that it makes a big difference, You should plan the farms to have no workers, either by placing the entrances to fields too far away for walking distance or explicitly setting the number of workers. Otherwise, this can be a hidden drain on your city's workforce.

[kyonkun]

Originally posted by potski:

You have to demonstrate this. The three shifts is stated again and again in YT videos.

You can easily time them yourself instead of trusting random people on the internet. The ratio of working:not-working is about 1:3 at best, on hard citizens reactions at least. If citizens have to go a long way to meet their needs or find work the ratio is much worse. The only way you could get to the oft-repeated "three shifts" or 1:2 working:not-working ratio is if the citizen lived within a few meters of both his shopping center and his workplace.

[GoRun]

I found worker that walks to factory works only 1 day, and if travel time is 3 days then work time is 3 days. Shift can be every day or every 4 days.

[John Moridin]

If there are no people waiting at a bus station then they are busy working somewhere else, don't have education or aren't in range of the bus stop.

I rarely bother to do any calculations in regards to worker population. Keep adding population until you have enough.

[CaPY]

I think it used to be like that where bus stops counted as a job so people split between factories and bus stop. Now I think it's more of a overflow used only if workers can't find work within walking distance.

[potski]

Originally posted by CaPY:

I think it used to be like that where bus stops counted as a job so people split between factories and bus stop. Now I think it's more of a overflow used only if workers can't find work within walking distance.

Yes, there is enough people who played the game in the past questioning this - it's not the first thread on this subject - that the behaviour does seem to have been changed by the devs. I can't remember what happened when I played the early versions.