Ridiculous chemical production & pricing

[HSA]

MAX Chemical production: 0.5
Plastic factory needs: 10
(Should I build 20 chemical factories?)
+Plastic also needs oil
+Plastic is half the price of chemicals
Any logic behind it?

[ryantheskinny]

Yes you would probably need 20 chemical factories if you wanna run at Max worker capacity.

It's really not necessary however. Make enough plastic to meet you demand. This isn't Anno style min-max ecomomics. This game has waaay more flexibility when it comes to production, it's not mandatory to run at 100% of the possible workers. Throttle it back, until you need more..

I believe the production is based on some mix of real production stats and guestimates. But I'm not certain on the devs exact reasoning behind the numbers.

[The_Mask]

I use the huge chemical plant mod . Users crops and oil .

[MG83]

no mod is needed. proper planning is advised.

[MG83]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1996216847

there is 22 chem plant :D

[MG83]

You can find actual game as save in this post. then you can examine it closely to improve for your designs.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/784150/discussions/0/3554966164228629146/

[MG83]

by the way it seems you dont know this:

Originally posted by MG83:

----------------------------------------------------Profit--------Profit per woker
Oil Well-----------------------------------------159.36------59.36
Power Plant-------------------------------- 1,012.52------50.63
Refinery------------------------------------16,786.66------33.57
Coal Ore Processing Plant----------------472.95------31.53
Iron Ore Processing Plant-----------------472.26------31.48
Gravel processing plant--------------------190.89------12.73
Chemical Plant-------------------------------582.42-------11.65
Live Stock Farm-----------------------------546.29-------10.93
Coal Mine-----------------------------------2,306.66-------10.48
Cement Plant--------------------------------306.38--------10.21
Food Factory------------------------------1,427.97----------8.40
Distillery---------------------------------------836.26----------8.36
Iron Mine-----------------------------------2,075.38----------8.30
Clothing---------------------------------------610.11----------7.63
Brick Factory---------------------------------543.63----------7.25
Fabrics Factory------------------------------515.19---------5.15
Prefab Panel Factory-----------------------312.81----------4.81
Electrical Components Factory-----------540.94--------3.61
Electronics Assembly Hall-----------------528.58---------3.52
Mech---------------------------------------------400.71--------2.67
Sawmill-------------------------------------------53.09--------2.65
Wood Cutting post 3xU377-------------------7.00---------1.40
Steel---------------------------------------------344.48---------0.69
Plastic Factory---------------------------- -5,741.86----- -57.42
Concrete Plant---------------------------- -638.19----- -127.64
Asphalt Plant--------------------------------- -697.71--- -139.54
Slaughter House------------------------- -13,750.21-- -275.00


Here are the state numbers for 1960 !

so if you export plastics you make less profit. its better to export chemicals.

plastic factory is like for your nation's self sufficiency for production in my perspective.

[Oleg Jughashvili]

Originally posted by MG83:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1996216847

there is 22 chem plant :D

=)

Insipred.

been witing for the update, time to start a fresh map

[MG83]

Originally posted by Oleg Jughashvili:

Insipred.

been witing for the update, time to start a fresh map

https://steamcommunity.com/app/784150/discussions/0/3554966164228629146/

you can check the save game. it also has somewhat complex rail system which you can use its blocks for your game . save is opt for test branch

:)

[HSA]

Originally posted by MG83:

You can find actual game as save in this post. then you can examine it closely to improve for your designs.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/784150/discussions/0/3554966164228629146/

Thanks
But the issue is not where to place the buildings. It`s possible to handle a 100 chemical plants too.
The issues are:
1. Pricing. In 1960 one unit of chemicals (1431 rub) + 3.32 units of oil (140 rub) = 1571 rub + Labor
produce just 1.42 units of plastic (1132 rub) which is 439 rub less than the cost of the raw materials, not even counting the labor worth.
And that makes no sense
2. The raw materials aren`t realistic. The main component of plastic is oil, and it dictates it`s price, so the are no 22% chemicals other than oil in plastic. It`s oil price and energy which dictate it`s price.

I liked the table though. Did you calculate it yourself?

[tea_bush]

I guess this price paradox is there to show that world markets are not always very logical. Perhaps there's a chemical embargo or something like that.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally posted by tea_bush:

I guess this price paradox is there to show that world markets are not always very logical. Perhaps there's a chemical embargo or something like that.

I was thinking "You can't compete on price against cheap guff from countries that cross lines your higher-ups in the party have forbidden you from crossing" as a component in it too. It's easy to be undercut by a foreign competitor on price when they're using slave labor and you're caring for your workers...

[tea_bush]

I also think it would be cool if some goods were more expensive in roubles and some in dollars, so that you could make a living by trading stuff between the borders.

[jockeril]

Originally posted by MG83:

by the way it seems you dont know this:

Originally posted by MG83:

----------------------------------------------------Profit--------Profit per woker
Oil Well-----------------------------------------159.36------59.36
Power Plant-------------------------------- 1,012.52------50.63
Refinery------------------------------------16,786.66------33.57
Coal Ore Processing Plant----------------472.95------31.53
Iron Ore Processing Plant-----------------472.26------31.48
Gravel processing plant--------------------190.89------12.73
Chemical Plant-------------------------------582.42-------11.65
Live Stock Farm-----------------------------546.29-------10.93
Coal Mine-----------------------------------2,306.66-------10.48
Cement Plant--------------------------------306.38--------10.21
Food Factory------------------------------1,427.97----------8.40
Distillery---------------------------------------836.26----------8.36
Iron Mine-----------------------------------2,075.38----------8.30
Clothing---------------------------------------610.11----------7.63
Brick Factory---------------------------------543.63----------7.25
Fabrics Factory------------------------------515.19---------5.15
Prefab Panel Factory-----------------------312.81----------4.81
Electrical Components Factory-----------540.94--------3.61
Electronics Assembly Hall-----------------528.58---------3.52
Mech---------------------------------------------400.71--------2.67
Sawmill-------------------------------------------53.09--------2.65
Wood Cutting post 3xU377-------------------7.00---------1.40
Steel---------------------------------------------344.48---------0.69
Plastic Factory---------------------------- -5,741.86----- -57.42
Concrete Plant---------------------------- -638.19----- -127.64
Asphalt Plant--------------------------------- -697.71--- -139.54
Slaughter House------------------------- -13,750.21-- -275.00


Here are the state numbers for 1960 !

so if you export plastics you make less profit. its better to export chemicals.

plastic factory is like for your nation's self sufficiency for production in my perspective.

a. Are the last four negative numbers ?
b. how did you calculate those numbers ?

[TheAmishStig]

Originally posted by jockeril:

Originally posted by MG83:

by the way it seems you dont know this:




so if you export plastics you make less profit. its better to export chemicals.

plastic factory is like for your nation's self sufficiency for production in my perspective.

a. Are the last four negative numbers ?
b. how did you calculate those numbers ?

I'm not MG, and I'm going to answer in reverse order because #2 provides context for #1, but:

2) Those numbers are (price of output material * quantity per day) - [ (price of input material * quantity consumed per day) + (repeat for each material) ], using the prices as they sat when he first started that save.

1) Yes. There are some industries where the raw material is worth more on the global market than the refined material...and as such when you're importing materials to refine and export, you will lose money. In the case of the slaughterhouse...a LOT of money.

That said...those numbers are not end-all be-all for four reasons:

1) prices change every 5 in-game days; the more you export, the more the price goes down, and the more you import, the more the price goes up.

2) Those numbers assume you're importing all the materials, not producing anything domestically. As you become more and more independent, the landscape of what industries are 'best' changes drastically. There are a couple where the profit margin on imported materials is terrible, but the raw value of the produced goods is amazing...and a couple that are the other way around, where the profit margin on imported materials is amazing, but the value of raw materials is so low there's not that much more money to be had by going independent.

3) There are investment factors to consider, such as the startup costs of each building, and normalizing it in some way (per ton of output, per worker, etc).

4) There is some fluctuation built in. I've never seen it be enough to flip a profitable one unprofitable, or an unprofitable one profitable, but starting prices for each resource do have some RNG to them. I do not know what the seed is.

[MG83]

Originally posted by jockeril:

a. Are the last four negative numbers ?
b. how did you calculate those numbers ?

a correct
b https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1996974513