Lack of alcohol should result in drastically high unsatisfaction

[Plasmon]

I don't drink any alcohol myself, but I do know soviet tried to prohibit alcohol drinks for two times and both failed badly, therefore it should be challenging for players to achieve this great accomplishment.

[polcorp]

The need for alcohol decreases over time if your citizens have everything they need.
They only go to the pub if they are unemployed : being inactive, they get through the day as best they can, which will have an impact on their health.

Otherwise, you can very well not build any bar, it will have no effect: the citizens will express a need, but it will not cause any escape, just like religion.

[Novu]

> The need for alcohol decreases over time if your citizens have everything they need.

This is a stupid mechanic that basically ruins the early game making it way harder than it needs to be. As soon as you create your republic on day one the citizens start screaming for all kinds of demands. They want alcohol, they want electronics, sports, movies, and tourist attractions while also constantly praying in church. They just walked out of a village with no electricity and they think I am Santa Claus. Then they will run for the border and escape if they don't get what they want. It is so easy to crash a Republic in the first year it is not even funny.

But after that the game gets super easy and it is not even a challenge at all anymore. Basically when I have the resources to give them all the free alcohol they can drink they don't want it anymore. It is dumb.

[polcorp]

Completely agree with what you said, Novu.
However, the thirst for alcohol expressed by your fellow citizens does not lead to escapes. Like the need for religion.
Alcohol is only really necessary for tourists: in a hotel or in a bar. Just like places of worship are only needed for tourists.
Apart from tourists, these two data are not to be taken into account in the game.

[MG83]

Brainwashing propaganda at tv against alcohol works well in all nations :P

[ryantheskinny]

Realistically removing alchohol and religion should be met with high dissatisfaction, historically the soviets gave up by the 70s on complete eradication of religion, not sure on prohibition, but in the US it only lasted for less than a decade :D

The new crime mechanic could reflect this well.

[MG83]

İlk olarak ryantheskinny tarafından gönderildi:

Realistically removing alchohol and religion should be met with high dissatisfaction, historically the soviets gave up by the 70s on complete eradication of religion, not sure on prohibition, but in the US it only lasted for less than a decade :D

The new crime mechanic could reflect this well.

i already find current mechanics of people who has % 0 religion symphaty to desire to go church etc stupid enough. and you talk about dissatisfaction . people who has 0 desire to drink alcohol should not have a trigger to go drink alcohol. As person i have 0 desire to drinl alcohol and i dont drink alcohol. even i go pub bar with friends i order mohito without alcohol in it . Same for religion.

If there should be some negative effect about alcohol mechanic instead of severe dissatisfaction it should be severe medical issues . having high alcohol addiction should shorten life span by %50 etc. or not being able to drink may cause emergency care situation.

[ryantheskinny]

İlk olarak MG83 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ryantheskinny tarafından gönderildi:

Realistically removing alchohol and religion should be met with high dissatisfaction, historically the soviets gave up by the 70s on complete eradication of religion, not sure on prohibition, but in the US it only lasted for less than a decade :D

The new crime mechanic could reflect this well.

i already find current mechanics of people who has % 0 religion symphaty to desire to go church etc stupid enough. and you talk about dissatisfaction . people who has 0 desire to drink alcohol should not have a trigger to go drink alcohol. As person i have 0 desire to drinl alcohol and i dont drink alcohol. even i go pub bar with friends i order mohito without alcohol in it . Same for religion.

If there should be some negative effect about alcohol mechanic instead of severe dissatisfaction it should be severe medical issues . having high alcohol addiction should shorten life span by %50 etc. or not being able to drink may cause emergency care situation.

Well of course the dissatisfaction should only be for those with high Religious sympathy or alchohol desire. The way it works needs to be fixed so that they do not seek religion or alchohol if its at 0. Of course getting to 0 should be difficult.

[Stele]

Alcoholism already decreases health. But startiong ratio in imigrants is what, about 10%? Maybe add sliders for every desire to options, so everyone could balance thigs to his desires, creating prohibitionist utopia or vodka in the pipes meme coutry.

[MG83]

İlk olarak Stele tarafından gönderildi:

Alcoholism already decreases health.

yes small amount . no emergency occur. or life span does not shorten much.

[thehides]

[/quote]
i already find current mechanics of people who has % 0 religion symphaty to desire to go church etc stupid enough. [/quote]

I am pretty sure when heating plant stops smoking everyone would become religious. Merry Christmas comrades! St Peter needs another thousand children... I had so many dead children X'D

[Bailing_Out]

Lack of alcohol certainly causes me to be highly dissatisfied

[Kai]

Lack of Alcohol should increase criminality, but not the desire for it. Lack of religion should decrease government loyalty, but not the desire for it. Religious need should be influenced by schooling + parent(if that is something that is calculated) Lack of sport should decrease health, and decrease desire for it. Culture should remain the way it is. This system would encourage players to have to balance the needs through propaganda, and differentiate the needs in a nice way.

It would lead to a series of interesting choices too, do you build towns around the existing Churches knowing your population is going to be reliant on a type of building you can't build for them? Or do you attempt to keep them loyal through monuments while you attempt to stamp out superstition through the school system in future generations?
Same with Alcohol do you accept the health and money hit early game by building bars, knowing your further increasing dependence which will be hard to stamp out later, or do you accept the existence of a criminal market that will make policing harder mid game?
Culture becomes the default thing you always have to provide, and sport becomes the thing you want to provide, as you try to create a culture of Soviet athletes, despite how much its costing to promote and build new heated pools.

Having to make choices that affect you down the road would allow for the mid game to become more interesting and give players a greater feel of how their choices are impacting the ways of life within their republic.

[ryantheskinny]

İlk olarak Kai tarafından gönderildi:

Lack of Alcohol should increase criminality, but not the desire for it. Lack of religion should decrease government loyalty, but not the desire for it. Religious need should be influenced by schooling + parent(if that is something that is calculated) Lack of sport should decrease health, and decrease desire for it. Culture should remain the way it is. This system would encourage players to have to balance the needs through propaganda, and differentiate the needs in a nice way.

Thats how alchohol and religion already work. If you don't provide it the desire decreases over time. If their bar is high and they don't get it they loose hapiness. Sports effects health but not getting it doesn't drop desire for it, however other needs can override it.

[Kai]

İlk olarak ryantheskinny tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Kai tarafından gönderildi:

Lack of Alcohol should increase criminality, but not the desire for it. Lack of religion should decrease government loyalty, but not the desire for it. Religious need should be influenced by schooling + parent(if that is something that is calculated) Lack of sport should decrease health, and decrease desire for it. Culture should remain the way it is. This system would encourage players to have to balance the needs through propaganda, and differentiate the needs in a nice way.

Thats how alchohol and religion already work. If you don't provide it the desire decreases over time. If their bar is high and they don't get it they loose hapiness. Sports effects health but not getting it doesn't drop desire for it, however other needs can override it.

I'm saying that Alcohol and Religion shouldn't decrease due to lack of access. They should have to be controlled through propaganda and education.

[ryantheskinny]

İlk olarak Kai tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ryantheskinny tarafından gönderildi:

Thats how alchohol and religion already work. If you don't provide it the desire decreases over time. If their bar is high and they don't get it they loose hapiness. Sports effects health but not getting it doesn't drop desire for it, however other needs can override it.

I'm saying that Alcohol and Religion shouldn't decrease due to lack of access. They should have to be controlled through propaganda and education.

Ah, okay. I misunderstood you then.

Some of the reduction is also generational. But education and propaganda make more sense. I just watched a YouTube video on that topic in the USSR and even with all that it was almost impossible to root it out.