What are forklifts good/bad for?

[bballjo]

I've seen some threads so far... generally negative for forklifts along the lines of "not ready yet", but I disagree.

I am using the rail and street crossings mods for forklifts, but everything else is vanilla.

I find that forklifts have a relatively reasonable setup when looking at speed and capacity, not really worried about fuel.

Overall it seems that if they are used like they are in real life, they seem to do the job well, but if used for other things they don't.

For example crops, I would consider them a bulk item, and as such I would not use a forklift in real life... instead I would use a dumper, wheel loader or conveyor belt. In game those aren't an option yet, but using just the forklifts simply cannot keep up with the demand of crops. I have 2 setups with a train station connected to a grain silo directly. That silo is then connected to the forklift network with 2 food factories or 2 fabric factories, either of them has a large demand for crops (60?) And at full efficiency there is no way the forklifts can supply that amount.

On the other hand products seem to be easily handled. In the sample above, the produced food and fabric comes in such small quantities that the forklift can easily handle it. Both of those items seem like something I can see a forklift to be used for in real life. I was even able to add 2 clothing factories at full efficiency, and the forklifts can deliver fabrics and move clothes to the warehouse without a problem.

I'm sure there is some formula one could derive that takes demand volume, driving distance, output and other things into account where we could tell when its worth to use the forklifts and when not...but I am curious...have you found any scenarios where forklifts are great and some where they are aweful?

[argent]

I would think that your findings and idea is sound. In my last run, I was using them in an Agri complex. 1+1 silos, 1 fabric & 2 clothes (passive cnx here), 1 alcohol, 1 food vanilla factory sources, and a large mod warehouse. I had 6 forklift vanilla garages and they couldn't cope. The crops were the issue, volume was just too high.

This run I am using cargo trucks (V3S of course!) as crop shuttles, and just using forklift so far (only 1961) for finished products. The wonderful 8 forklift garage mod helps a lot in # garages, but as per another thread we need a larger tonnage forklift (which is ok in real life).

We need balance though, and I am thinking we need some modelling. A play between tonnage, speed, fuel use, time locking models, capital outlay (anything else?). I would think it is practical, although KISS linking & coding may require no mixed tonnage garages, maybe? I am not a dev/programmer so not sure. I know some recent modelling was done, but I think it was just loading priority balance (queuing theory) - not this?

[Vimes]

First thing, what decides if people have that little mouse icon next to their name...? I see that some do have it and others, like the OP, doesn't....?



Being quite new to the game I wasn't sure how to expect the mechanics for the FLT's to work heck I didn't even know about the factory interconnects.

I did have a fabric factory connected with FLT's and the four way connector to a warehouse and clothes factory. I had a second interconnect connector made from the same fabric factory to the same warehouse, hope that makes sense.
I was hoping that the FLT's would move fabric from the fabric factory to the clothes factory and the surplus would be carried directly from the other connection from the fabric factory to the warehouse.

That didn't work.
The fleet of FLT's took over completely all the movement of the fabric to both the warehouse and also the clothes factory. I now realise that I should have deselected the fabric factory from the list of serviced buildings by the FLT depot.
Building a second clothes factory and having the two connect directly to the fabric factory was a better idea.
The capacity of the FLT's do not suit a high output factory but equally I know understand that a direct interconnect connection seems to be ignored if you also have a FLT type connection as well.

I just wish that the direct interconnect connection could be more flexible in length and have the ability to include right angled corners etc.

[littlekubo]

crops being stored in sacks, transported in pallets. usage of forklift is valid. even livestock could be transported in sort of cages ready for handling with forklifts

[bballjo]

Originally posted by littlekubo:

crops being stored in sacks, transported in pallets. usage of forklift is valid. even livestock could be transported in sort of cages ready for handling with forklifts

They are definitely valid, I just think even in real life they would be rather inefficient for any transport that's outside of the facility, like the forklift connections. I don't see why someone wouldn't use forklifts inside any factory, but we aren't modeling that in this game.

[bballjo]

Originally posted by Vimes:

First thing, what decides if people have that little mouse icon next to their name...? I see that some do have it and others, like the OP, doesn't....?

I would assume that it's supposed to show if someone owns the game of discussion. For me I bought this game on my secondary account for lazy reasons, but now I'm back on my main account which I am playing the game with and posting here.

[bballjo]

Originally posted by saliens argent:

We need balance though, and I am thinking we need some modelling. A play between tonnage, speed, fuel use, time locking models, capital outlay (anything else?). I would think it is practical, although KISS linking & coding may require no mixed tonnage garages, maybe? I am not a dev/programmer so not sure. I know some recent modelling was done, but I think it was just loading priority balance (queuing theory) - not this?

I think this would be a great opportunity for research goals in game. I.e. research faster industry roads, bigger capacity, new blueprints that need previous research. Then build new researched vehicles ourselves, because no other country has them, so we cannot buy the better forklifts...this is just a small sample, there are a lot of opportunities in the research.

To your Dev point, as far as I've heard this is a small team of guys (3?) And looking at their roadmap there are so many items on the list that just take a lot of time... additional details like we are talking about are generally not hard to implement, but they add up quickly and they touch other parts of the system that then need attention, think avalanche, it starts small and grows until it's finished...

short: wait patiently and enjoy the updates:)

[argent]

Originally posted by Vimes:

Building a second clothes factory and having the two connect directly to the fabric factory was a better idea.
The capacity of the FLT's do not suit a high output factory but equally I know understand that a direct interconnect connection seems to be ignored if you also have a FLT type connection as well.

If they connect directly (no nodes) with no forklift in that 'circuit/path', then it is just an extension to the factory, a passive connection that will shift materials if permitted. In your example, as I think you have done, then use a separate path/pattern with forklifts to move the clothes to the warehouse, and then loading platform.

[Vimes]

Originally posted by bballjo:

Originally posted by Vimes:

First thing, what decides if people have that little mouse icon next to their name...? I see that some do have it and others, like the OP, doesn't....?

I would assume that it's supposed to show if someone owns the game of discussion. For me I bought this game on my secondary account for lazy reasons, but now I'm back on my main account which I am playing the game with and posting here.

Some things should be obvious, now that you mention that it is....!

[Vimes]

Originally posted by saliens argent:

Originally posted by Vimes:

Building a second clothes factory and having the two connect directly to the fabric factory was a better idea.
The capacity of the FLT's do not suit a high output factory but equally I know understand that a direct interconnect connection seems to be ignored if you also have a FLT type connection as well.

If they connect directly (no nodes) with no forklift in that 'circuit/path', then it is just an extension to the factory, a passive connection that will shift materials if permitted. In your example, as I think you have done, then use a separate path/pattern with forklifts to move the clothes to the warehouse, and then loading platform.

I think that it was my lack of understanding of how the interconnects work.


Also if, for example, a factory uses raw material at around 0.5t a day at maximum output then the interconnects seem to only draw what hey need and not fill beyond that to include a "buffer" as can be achieved if you buy the raw material in or use FLT's to transfer the material.

Hopefully I have that right...!

[Growbag]

Just seems so inefficient to pay fuel and have limited transport capacity when a passive factory connection is far superior. I would rather build more storage spots to provide more passive connection options than try use forklifts as they stand....which is a shame. Nerf passive connections or buff forklifts to make them more appealing.

[bballjo]

Originally posted by Growbag:

Just seems so inefficient to pay fuel and have limited transport capacity when a passive factory connection is far superior. I would rather build more storage spots to provide more passive connection options than try use forklifts as they stand....which is a shame. Nerf passive connections or buff forklifts to make them more appealing.

Agreed on the above...to me it's just a question of what I want...for efficiency 1 input storage to 1 production to 1 output storage is def. More efficient in terms of production when connecting via direct factory connections, but doing that limits my ability to build large industrial areas with multiple production chains. At this point I am just playing with the mechanics, and I like having a it look busy with forlifts rather than simple with direct connections... however for my future builds, I will never use forklifts again to move grain anywhere.

Mentioned it before, but doing something with research would be cool here...Nerf everything for the beginning and force the use of trucks and trains...mid game forklifts and eventually super efficient industry connections...so many options, so little time ...

[TheAmishStig]

I've found forklifts best for, if you'll pardon the pun, forking factory connections in a low-volume setting, so that you don't need huge sprawling Tetris messes to connect multiple factories to a single storage area, and don't need to use dedicated storage areas / dedicated cargo stations for factories that can't push enough volume to warrant having a warehouse or RCO all to itself. Situations such as:

• Warehouse <--> Forklift <--> Multiple Chemical Factories
  
• Multiple Distilleries --> Forklift --> Warehouse
  
• Multiple Animal Farms --> Forklift --> Holding Pen or Slaughterhouse

They can also be useful for load redistribution. When a train/truck drops off it'll give to the least full, then push everything up together...but if you need to show a bias [say, the 66-33 split between a Fabric Factory and an Animal Farm], an even split like that can cause one to starve while the other is glutted; it's a useful place for Forklifts, as they'll shift material around to even the two back out.

Where they fall apart is people's first instinct for where to use them: as a replacement for Passive Connections (they can't hope to match a the throughput), or as a "pump" to push forward materials in a high-volume (>20-ish tons per day) setting.

There are a couple rare situations where it works, but in general Forklifts suck for crops. You're much better off with a Road Cargo Station and shuttle trucks, it'll do a much better job of keeping up with the volume.

I'm hoping we get either a capacity bump or higher capacity ones in the future [even if it means later available dates, etc] as that'd enable even more sophisticated builds with them...but even a 'Forklift Dock' [allows 2 or 3 to unload at the same time, not unlike the new Road Cargo Station] would help tremendously. The 'ones bringing supplies must wait for the one loading' problem is annoying.

Originally posted by bballjo:

Mentioned it before, but doing something with research would be cool here...Nerf everything for the beginning and force the use of trucks and trains...mid game forklifts and eventually super efficient industry connections...so many options, so little time ...

Remind me when I get home, I'll upload a screenshot of an industrial park where I was playing with shuttle trucks buzzing around, treating them like high-capacity forklifts. That should help with your "vehicles buzzing around, but forklifts can't keep up" situation.

It is an interesting suggestion though...could call the upgrade that makes passive factory connections faster "Conveyor Belts" or somesuch. A progression that makes sense would be to start out with pallet jacks / hand trucks, to Roller Belts [the passive ones with wheels or bearings], to Powered Conveyor Belts [the active ones that don't need people to push any more].

[Total Oh No]

The problem with forklifts is that you spend money on fuel, electricity and vehicles, and then the connection doesn't even perform any better than a direct connection, in fact, in most cases it does a worse job.
With pipelines and conveyors, there isn't really a difference in their productivity depending on if you use them powered or unpowered, but with forklifts, there is a big difference, which makes forklifts seem like they require buffs.

Forklifts kinda have the same problem as cableways, where they look cool and are more realistic than the almost instantaneous teleportation of goods in a direct industry connection or on a conveyor, but they are less efficient than them. It comes down to a decision about if you value realism/aesthetics or efficiency more.

Like Stig said, one of the only actual uses of forklifts right now is to collect the output of multiple factories in a single storage building, but that is an incredibly minor thing in my opinion. Their throughput should not be worse than a direct connection.

I've said it before, but I kinda think forklifts would make much more sense if direct connections wouldn't exist anymore and you would have no choice, but to use forklifts for every industry connection. Not that that is necessarily a good idea, as it could overcomplicated simple connections to additional storage buildings or similar. It could possibly work as an optional difficulty setting.

[bballjo]

Originally posted by Total Oh No:

Forklifts kinda have the same problem as cableways, where they look cool and are more realistic than the almost instantaneous teleportation of goods in a direct industry connection or on a conveyor, but they are less efficient than them. It comes down to a decision about if you value realism/aesthetics or efficiency more.

Definitely this. At least there are more options now, and I would guess they will add more as time goes on.

[TenPennyBenny]

the forklifts are too small. they lift not much weight. 1,8t of steel ingame, the russian one. i had a training to use them in rl, it was a very little forklift, very little! but it could lift 1,5tons. using a battery to drive. they mostly use them indoor. the model of the russian forklift ingame looks more like a much bigger forklift, maybe able to lift 5t. well they use forklifts to lift big ship container in any harbour. there are so many options. hope they add some more models.