Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic

Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic

İstatistiklere Bak:
Gulag?
Gulags and Katorgas?
İlk olarak gönderen kişi: Azrael:
İlk olarak Petrolsky ☭ tarafından gönderildi:
There is a little difference between Armed Borders watching both sides and Gulags, dont you think? Also, whats up with "Prison Country Simulator 2019", when you think socialists countrys with bothsided borders are so gross, why you posting here in the first place?

The simple reason: Immersion.

For example I enjoyed the Company of Heroes 2 Main Campaign, where at one point you encounter Order 227 aka. You retreat without permission => You get shot.
In CoH2, just like in the first title, you can fast retreat soldiers with a hotkey, giving them a high defensive bonus, but they become uncontrollable for a period of time, since they run back to your HQ (or the next retreat point).

When you ordered recruits via an ability instead of "building" them the normal way, Order 227 became active for a time, so a Commissar waited in the HQ and shot the soldiers.
Basically it is wrong, since they did retreat with permission, but anyway, it confronts the player with this particular Order of Stalin (that also wasn't active for the full duration of the war in reality) and the Eastern Front.

I enjoyed this element because of the immersion.

But that doesn't mean, that I condone this or the Death Penalty in general in the real world.

So I could very well play such a game like this one (I also like to play Tropico Games) without any "moral problems" afterall the game is just pixels, but that doesn't mean, that I condone dictatorships in the real world.


And also I like consistent game concepts.

If you alrdy simulate the armed border to NATO, which in the real world also had the function to keep your citizens from leaving the country towards the west, why stop there and not integrate Gulags or Prison Labor Camps into the Game?

That is inconsistent and I think, that is a flaw, also a flaw, that could lead to serious historical misunderstandings.
Since this has no age tag yet, I suppose, that children, who are not necessarily well educated in History, could get the impression, that socialist states had no downsides regarding freedom.

So I suggest to the dev (who looks and answers here, which is very appreciated, thumbs up), that he integrates a mechanic regarding political opposition and the treatment of it into the game.
You even could go so far to add different ways, how to handle the opposition.

The stalinist way of just purging or atleast imprisoning the populace.
The post-stalinist way of just imprisoning the populace and death penalty only for a very selected few, non-communists.
The more "relaxed" approach of just imprisoning the most antagonistic people; This could also include a quasi-parlamentary system like in the GDR, with the definite leadership of the socialist party, but adding pseudo-opposition parties.
The socialism "with a human face", so the czech approach, that integrates opposition criticism into your state socialism, with the danger of soviet military intervention in your country => game over, if you're not prepared.
Or the democratic change approach, integrating a real parliament and the state on it's way to become a free democracy and leave the Eastern Bloc, also with the danger of a soviet military intervention in your country => game over, if you're not prepared.

Each approach could have it's down- and upsides for the player and different effects on the citizens.
In the real Cold War, for example the Hungarian Citizens were less prone to flee their country than
East-German citizens, because the GDR, the East-German State, was way more orthodox than Hungary.

This could also be further built on, like adding "phases", in which the Soviet Union itself resides in, like a Stalinist Phase, a Post-Stalinist Phase, a Brezhnev Doctrine Phase or a Perestroika Phase, making the USSR less or more tolerant for deviation from the official line of the USSR, making it more or less risky to stray very far away from the USSR and so on.

This aspect of state surveillance, deviation from the line of the USSR and so on could add so many interesting aspects to this game, that it would be sad, if this or anything like it wouldn't play a role and it would make a city/state builder, that aims to simulate an eastern bloc country, somewhat unrealistic.
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45 yorumdan 1 ile 15 arası gösteriliyor
Don't make the game a meme.
3division  [geliştirici] 19 Ara 2018 @ 0:59 
We don't want to support players to make Gulags.. we will see.. maybe it will be possible to do with some workaround.. if we will make to possibility to make wall/fences on the borders.. to avoid escapes of citizens from your republic
İlk olarak 3division tarafından gönderildi:
We don't want to support players to make Gulags.. we will see.. maybe it will be possible to do with some workaround.. if we will make to possibility to make wall/fences on the borders.. to avoid escapes of citizens from your republic

OP's suggestion is valid. If there are going to be jails and prisons, might as well have a gulag.

I was going to suggest that there is a bonefide "iron curtain" (buildable wall) with minefields and towers. Before anybody gets US Border memes ready, for those of you too young to know (and maybe some who may be old enough to remember), there were walls that divided west and east Europe. I've seen them when I was a boy and with my father when he was stationed in Germany. Took a tourist trip with some full bird US Army colonels to the wall somewhere, I don't remember. Looked through binocs to see Russians looking at us back, and all the signs in stickman language that basically said, "minefield".

I wonder if there is goverment buildings in this game and also secret police units to detect unhappy citizens who try to defect. The gulag would be a nice place to send them to.
you guys messed with definitions.

gulag its department

GULag Glavnoe Upravlenie Lagerei

Main Administration of Camps
Gulag was in Syberia. Game is, it looks like, takes place in Eastern Europe. So no Gulag.
If they include the national anthem i buy it. xD
İlk olarak Romka94 tarafından gönderildi:
Gulag was in Syberia. Game is, it looks like, takes place in Eastern Europe. So no Gulag.
That is saddly not true. Mayority of Gulags or forced labor camps were concetrated in European part of the Soviet Union, especially around Moscow. You should check history records a bit. Its true that the Siberian Gulags are known the most, cause of their infamy.
Also, in East Germany they had forced prisoner labor in the Jails, not exactly a Gulag, but not something, we'd do in the West.

İlk olarak 3division tarafından gönderildi:
We don't want to support players to make Gulags.. we will see.. maybe it will be possible to do with some workaround.. if we will make to possibility to make wall/fences on the borders.. to avoid escapes of citizens from your republic

Dear dev, if you include armed borders preventing citizens from escaping aka. shooting them on sight, you very well could include Gulags.
If you make a "Prison Country Simulator 2019", you can also include Gulags, since they're Jail & Work Camps.
There is a little difference between Armed Borders watching both sides and Gulags, dont you think? Also, whats up with "Prison Country Simulator 2019", when you think socialists countrys with bothsided borders are so gross, why you posting here in the first place?
Some Type of work camp would be nice... Even Tropico 4 has forced labor camps.. This is a more seriouse game and should have at least prison labor.
İlk olarak Petrolsky ☭ tarafından gönderildi:
There is a little difference between Armed Borders watching both sides and Gulags, dont you think? Also, whats up with "Prison Country Simulator 2019", when you think socialists countrys with bothsided borders are so gross, why you posting here in the first place?

Maybe because that's the historic nature of communism. Every single time.

I mean, unless you think the "social currency" that China's implementing to continuously monitor your behavior and then take away services based on your actions is something governments should be doing. Or that the Chinese are attacking and destroying churches, rounding up muslims and sending them to reeducation camps.

Maybe we don't think that kids getting a very unrealistic view of communism is a good thing.
Bu konunun sahibi, bu iletinin ilk konuyu cevapladığını belirtti.
İlk olarak Petrolsky ☭ tarafından gönderildi:
There is a little difference between Armed Borders watching both sides and Gulags, dont you think? Also, whats up with "Prison Country Simulator 2019", when you think socialists countrys with bothsided borders are so gross, why you posting here in the first place?

The simple reason: Immersion.

For example I enjoyed the Company of Heroes 2 Main Campaign, where at one point you encounter Order 227 aka. You retreat without permission => You get shot.
In CoH2, just like in the first title, you can fast retreat soldiers with a hotkey, giving them a high defensive bonus, but they become uncontrollable for a period of time, since they run back to your HQ (or the next retreat point).

When you ordered recruits via an ability instead of "building" them the normal way, Order 227 became active for a time, so a Commissar waited in the HQ and shot the soldiers.
Basically it is wrong, since they did retreat with permission, but anyway, it confronts the player with this particular Order of Stalin (that also wasn't active for the full duration of the war in reality) and the Eastern Front.

I enjoyed this element because of the immersion.

But that doesn't mean, that I condone this or the Death Penalty in general in the real world.

So I could very well play such a game like this one (I also like to play Tropico Games) without any "moral problems" afterall the game is just pixels, but that doesn't mean, that I condone dictatorships in the real world.


And also I like consistent game concepts.

If you alrdy simulate the armed border to NATO, which in the real world also had the function to keep your citizens from leaving the country towards the west, why stop there and not integrate Gulags or Prison Labor Camps into the Game?

That is inconsistent and I think, that is a flaw, also a flaw, that could lead to serious historical misunderstandings.
Since this has no age tag yet, I suppose, that children, who are not necessarily well educated in History, could get the impression, that socialist states had no downsides regarding freedom.

So I suggest to the dev (who looks and answers here, which is very appreciated, thumbs up), that he integrates a mechanic regarding political opposition and the treatment of it into the game.
You even could go so far to add different ways, how to handle the opposition.

The stalinist way of just purging or atleast imprisoning the populace.
The post-stalinist way of just imprisoning the populace and death penalty only for a very selected few, non-communists.
The more "relaxed" approach of just imprisoning the most antagonistic people; This could also include a quasi-parlamentary system like in the GDR, with the definite leadership of the socialist party, but adding pseudo-opposition parties.
The socialism "with a human face", so the czech approach, that integrates opposition criticism into your state socialism, with the danger of soviet military intervention in your country => game over, if you're not prepared.
Or the democratic change approach, integrating a real parliament and the state on it's way to become a free democracy and leave the Eastern Bloc, also with the danger of a soviet military intervention in your country => game over, if you're not prepared.

Each approach could have it's down- and upsides for the player and different effects on the citizens.
In the real Cold War, for example the Hungarian Citizens were less prone to flee their country than
East-German citizens, because the GDR, the East-German State, was way more orthodox than Hungary.

This could also be further built on, like adding "phases", in which the Soviet Union itself resides in, like a Stalinist Phase, a Post-Stalinist Phase, a Brezhnev Doctrine Phase or a Perestroika Phase, making the USSR less or more tolerant for deviation from the official line of the USSR, making it more or less risky to stray very far away from the USSR and so on.

This aspect of state surveillance, deviation from the line of the USSR and so on could add so many interesting aspects to this game, that it would be sad, if this or anything like it wouldn't play a role and it would make a city/state builder, that aims to simulate an eastern bloc country, somewhat unrealistic.
Ok what is so bad about GULag? There are federal or privet prisons in the US, Germany and France. GULag is Russian abbreviation for Buro for Prisons Management. There are criminals sitting there, not political. So of course, they will have GULag as SimCity had prisons too.

İlk olarak Matruchus tarafından gönderildi:
That is saddly not true. Mayority of Gulags or forced labor camps were concetrated in European ..
Why is it sad? The weather in the western part is much better. Also, Gulag is a Buro, not a camp, its a prisons management buro, with the same functions like the one in US or Germany.
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45 yorumdan 1 ile 15 arası gösteriliyor
Sayfa başına: 1530 50

Gönderilme Tarihi: 10 Ara 2018 @ 15:09
İleti: 45