Why build brick buildings?

[Fiend]

The brick housing buildings are more expensive, less dense, and lower quality than the prefabs. Is there any point in building them?
Their only advantage seems to be that they don't need prefab, but prefab is not that difficult to get. Strangely, the require more steel than the prefabs. I think it would be better for the game, and more realistic, if they didn't need steal. Then they would be useful early on, but get replaced later by prefabs.

[tea_bush]

Yeah, and most of them have low apartment quality, which doesn't make sense. IRL brick houses were much better than concrete ones.

[Luna]

If you're manually building everything, bricks are one of the easiest resources to get. Only requires one building, and also cheap imports so it'll work even if you aren't mining coal yourself. Can even make a profit exporting them. Prefab is more expensive to make yourself and isn't as good for export unless you have the whole chain.

To be honest though, I'd say it's mostly aesthetic since the price difference is completely negligible if you have your own construction industry.

[Trig_the_Poor_Shot]

I also try to have a bit of house rules and only build prefab apartments after 1970, when such building tech became more prevalent.

[dopravopat]

Originally posted by tea_bush:

Yeah, and most of them have low apartment quality, which doesn't make sense. IRL brick houses were much better than concrete ones.

I disagree. Prefab "panelák" buildings had a higher standard than most brick houses were workers lived. I am talking about "worker class" brick flats, not the nice "historical" buildings in city centres or the between wars perdiod apartment houses for the middle class. Not all of the "worker class" brick houses had a bad standard, but many did. Also, many people moved into paneláks in the 1960s and 1970s from old "poor" houses that used to be on the border of the city and were demolished in order to built residential estates using prefab houses. Trust me, most people were happy because they got a much better quality, basically matching the between wars period of brick houses for the middle class. Paneláks had central heating, warm water 24/7, each flat has its own toilet. Houses have lifts, are generally much brighter (large windows)... This all was not taken for granted. Of course, paneláks were designed to be cheap and some temporary solutions became permanent out of neccessity. Also, the quality of certain materials was not very good and most sanitary utilities had to be repalaced, because they were worn out faster than expected. So yes, there were some drarwbacks, but overall, paneláks did their job well - solving the acute shortage of flats after the 2nd world war and also improving life quality for many people. I also live in a panelák, nicely reconstructed. I would not change for an older brick house in the city centre, it would lack the vast greenery I have abundant, I also have all possible services within walking distance, shops, post office, schools, pubs...

[dopravopat]

Originally posted by Trig_the_Poor_Shot:

I also try to have a bit of house rules and only build prefab apartments after 1970, when such building tech became more prevalent.

It would be nice to have the possibility to "study" prefab houses and unlock newer versions. There were more contruction systems of prefabs. In the former Czechoslovakia there were quite a few different types, worked out by different construction offices and built in specific regions. Also, the very first panelaks were of soviet construction, basically "imported plans". It would be nice to have some real world "construction styles" available - basically researching them and then building.

Some links:
https://www.estav.cz/cz/5773.konstrukcni-soustavy-panelovych-domu-jejich-vyvoj-a-typy-pudorysy
http://panelaky.info/vyvoj_panelaku/

[3division]

Yes.. idea was that maybe the cost of prefab should be lower.. but that prefab would be available only after some research... we may change after we finalize research system.. it's currently not so priority but it will finished in few months for sure..

Another story would be that after introducing the winter.. the bricks apartments could be better in term of energy efficiency / energy consumption during winter :-) so less heating power during winters :)

[Mr_Mellow_]

The whole idea behind pre-fab is that it takes less time to build the actual building because much of the constructing is done in off-site profuction facility. Looking at the amount of working days ingame this is currently correct.
If we compare the prices of the materials for the buildings, a brick building requires more steel than a pre-fab building ... which makes it more exspensive... This does not make sense. The materials needed to build the actual building should be around the same. The main difference should be in spend hours to create the building.

Possible fixes to balance it out could be:
- lowering the amount of steel needed for brick buildings --> brick builldings will become a bit cheaper
OR:
- increasing the amount of materials needed for pre-fab panels, Currently its just cement and gravel (aka concrete).... shouldn't there be steel involved? --> pre-fab panels become more exspensive.


Also, there's a thing like wooden buildings... labor intensive... yes... but cheap on materials. And they could also be done pre-fab.
Yes... this game has got potential :-)

[tea_bush]

Originally posted by dopravopat:

Prefab "panelák" buildings had a higher standard than most brick houses were workers lived. I am talking about "worker class" brick flats, not the nice "historical" buildings in city centres or the between wars perdiod apartment houses for the middle class. Not all of the "worker class" brick houses had a bad standard, but many did.

Ah! I see.

In the USSR (probably except a few places with a better quality of life) these "brick houses for workers" were quite rare, if existed at all. Before Khrushchev's prefab revolution many workers lived in wooden barracks or even in dugouts (especially in places devastated by the war). To live in a brick house was like... very cool )

After the boom of mass concrete construction (which of course was very progressive because it pulled millions of people out of awful living conditions) brick houses continued to be built occasionally. Usually they were just like the concrete ones, only made of brick, which was considered much better: they were warmer and you didn't hear your neighbors all the time.

[dopravopat]

Originally posted by tea_bush:

In the USSR (probably except a few places with a better quality of life) these "brick houses for workers" were quite rare, if existed at all. Before Khrushchev's prefab revolution many workers lived in wooden barracks or even in dugouts (especially in places devastated by the war). To live in a brick house was like... very cool )

In Central Europe, wooden houses were rare.

[dopravopat]

Originally posted by Mr_Mellow_:

Currently its just cement and gravel (aka concrete).... shouldn't there be steel involved? --> pre-fab panels become more exspensive.

Yes, steel should be included. In the same amount as with brick buildings. The main difference should be the time needed to build the houses.

[tomasoltis]

Originally posted by dopravopat:

Originally posted by tea_bush:

In Central Europe, wooden houses were rare.

but some people lived in them ... I remember in 90s, there was such a house deconstructed, made in 1880-1890s, which was a 'prefab' made in a valley above the hill, on the other side. Those wooden houses were very warm, (not that you managed to set them on fire ofc, such warmth wasnt needed though.) Villages in the hills were mostly wooden, those were quite apart from 'civilization'. Building material in the hills as well as firewood.

Only those who came from murrica after ww1 , I remember, one of my ancestors had a first brick house in such a village in 1935.

in early 1980s parents built the house, as I understand from prefabs on the main walls, but especially in wet conditions you can see bricks also, from the northeern side. And it is big, big windows, whoever could grasp how prices of energy could come up when state property would be given to extortion-driven profit-seekers... xD and they tell us that today all is better :P

Imagine, a state company was driving trucks full of material through your village because there was a large construction going, you stopped the truck, gave the driver something and the resources were diverted from the construction to you. A few times this and much of your needs for stuff was met. If something more was needed, you drank with some high-ups. All was done, the state company did its job, your house also got some much-needed material for much lower costs. The books were all fine. If you were in the party and had good connections, or you were working for the state company, the state company built a house for you. After a 'few' years you generally paid up or something like it. Some say they didnt even pay for it. I wonder.

And no, those werent a few storey-high houses. In the village Im from, panel-built village houses were from something like 1975 or so. Many of them were according to one style, but some people ignored what the state wanted, bought up some bureaucrats, alcohol was also an important currency, or if you were some special kind, you were and threatened them (including physical removal) if they threatened to pull down your building. It was important when.(80s werent 50s)

I'm pretty sure that prefab panels do have steel wires in them. Železobetón.

[dopravopat]

Železobetón = Reinforced concrete.

[tomasoltis]

Originally posted by dopravopat:

Železobetón = Reinforced concrete.

ale panely aspoň v dome máme železobetónové ... čiže museli vtedy robiť panely nielen také obyč. Podlaha panel, bočné /vonkajšie múry tehly.

[dopravopat]

Však to znamená doslova "vystužený betón". Reinforcing bars, alebo skrátene "rebars" = betonárska výstuž, slangovo "roxor".

Mimochodom, hostinského sídlisko v BA, jedno z prvých panelákových, ak nie úplne prvé, používa importovaný sovietsky dizajn. Jeho zaujímavosťou je, že žiadne panely nie sú nosné, nosný je skelet, pričom v izbách je to v rohoch vidno. Žiadna stena nie je nosná, môžeš si to veselo vybúrať na open space. Statik by to mal povoliť, lebo tým budove iba odľahčíš od zbytočného balastu. V tých výplňových paneloch bude asi menej železa než v nosných paneloch neskorších domácich stavebných sústav. To len taká pikoška....

[tomasoltis]

Originally posted by dopravopat:

osobne stavbar nesom, ocinko na nich robil kedysi v stavebnom podniku ale mne ani slova že čo jak. Len používa tie svoje názvy a výrazy a ja len kukam jakeby som mal tomu rozumieť ... áno, samozrejme :P velmi som to nepotreboval, ale co uz. Priečka toto, tamten taký múr tamto xyz ...