Tip: Make walkable cities (bus stops)

[DeltaDude]

Due to the pass-through mechanic of bus stops there's almost no reason not to build them every 250 odd meters. If a citizen was waiting at one and didn't get picked up... they will walk in line to the next bus stop closest to their destination, and then maybe they will find a vehicle to take them!

Making cities like this with carefully planned bus stops also utilizing 'citizens should go here' mechanic to keep them traveling in the right direction, can greatly improve the total distance they can walk to where they are trying to go, letting them stay happy or remain productive even if there is a momentary lapse in available transit.

As long as you keep another bus stop in walking range of every bus stop, citizens should theoretically be able to walk through the entire network until their time spent traveling stopwatch runs out, which is much higher than their normal 1 hour wait at station timer.

[MG83]

This already exists in game. link bus stops to each other with manual selection pedestrians walks there when 1 hour waiting ends. However long waiting times causes citizens to be unhappy.

[tivaber]

Originally posted by Jon144:

Due to the pass-through mechanic of bus stops there's almost no reason not to build them every 250 odd meters.

If I'm not mistaken, this way you'd need your busses to circle around in town all the time in order to pick up workers at all those different bus stops where they might be? This would extend the travelling time of the busses considerably (especially because the current behaviour of bus stops delays the busses incredibly, so imho many passengers would time-out) and create lots of additional traffic... or not?

[Leigh]

I think Jon means to eliminate the use of buses in large areas by building bus stops in walking range of each other. Citizens do not know what is at the end of a bus line, all they know is that locally they cannot find what they need. So, they walk to a bus stop or station.

At a bus stop or station they will look again to see if anything that meets their need is in range. In theory, you could chain bus stops or stations and force your citizens to walk to where they need to be.

On paper at least, this is viable as people are willing to walk about for quite a few hours, but only willing to wait an hour for a bus. You could create large housing areas using this tactic, with a "amenities" block every so often to supply required needs.

By rights, you could have "needs" areas and work areas a reasonable distance from your housing, and just set up a couple of bus lines to each, from just one or two of your housing stops. People will keep walking until they find what they need. The trick is to distance everything so people can recover needs and work within a work day.

[tripodalt]

this can create a sinfull loop where people waste their time
i mean time for make thing for the player at end

[DeltaDude]

Originally posted by MG83:

This already exists in game. link bus stops to each other with manual selection pedestrians walks there when 1 hour waiting ends. However long waiting times causes citizens to be unhappy.

Yes this is not a suggestion to the devs, this is something i'm suggesting players don't forget! I really suggest you read what I write more carefully.

Originally posted by tivaber:

If I'm not mistaken, this way you'd need your busses to circle around in town all the time in order to pick up workers at all those different bus stops where they might be? This would extend the travelling time of the busses considerably (especially because the current behaviour of bus stops delays the busses incredibly, so imho many passengers would time-out) and create lots of additional traffic... or not?

Definitely not. Loops are inherently dangerous. I would instead advocate point to point lines where you have individual bus lines for specific straight roads. Also, if you set the buses and stations properly with where to get out and get in, along with 'where citizens should go' on the bus stops, you can keep them moving in the right direction.

I will make a quick example soon showing my idea of a 'microdistrict' using walkable bus stop routes.

Update: Here is a crude microsoft paint concept

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1907518181&fileuploadsuccess=1

This is not a back and forth system that lets people get lost on buses. There is a clear flow to a central hub of the microdistrict that should eat up any citizen that gets there, either shopping, working, or being transported away to work in a factory. As long as you keep the bus stops within walking distance of another people should find their way even if they miss a bus.

[tripodalt]

yes i had a facroty out of walk range
and puting a bus stop inbeetweem made people walking to it
i report it in the bug section

[ryantheskinny]

Originally posted by tripodalt:

yes i had a facroty out of walk range
and puting a bus stop inbeetweem made people walking to it
i report it in the bug section

This is not a bug, this is work as designed. The bus stop is supposed to be able to allow citizens to continue walking if their wait timer runs out

[tripodalt]

are you a designer or just a fan of exploits
what the logic in what you pretend
it make no sens

[DeltaDude]

Originally posted by tripodalt:

are you a designer or just a fan of exploits
what the logic in what you pretend
it make no sens

Uhh... Pretty sure I do more walking on a daily basis than just 250m. Definitely not an exploit to get them walking a little more.

[tripodalt]

i agree at this point
this not an exploit to walk 5h a day
without any bus stop for motive
after all
who know if the 1950 sovietic was able to found their path at more than 250m
despit an university teacher grade
maybe this an historical fact

[DeltaDude]

Originally posted by tripodalt:

i agree at this point
this not an exploit to walk 5h a day
without any bus stop for motive
after all
who know if the 1950 sovietic was able to found their path at more than 250m
despit an university teacher grade
maybe this an historical fact

In in-game times really don't seem to correspond well to distances. It certainly wouldn't take me so many hours to walk a kilometer or two. Same thing with buses... seems pretty ridiculous that a short bus ride to downtown would take someone more than an hour of traveling when its under a kilometer away.

[tripodalt]

i experimented long walk in city an average 1kmh
because shoes destroyed after 3h
depending condition it can vary
young must walk 6kmh when healthy and 100% clothes and food
its a recurent problem in this game
their is very accurate fata that not match at all nor the reality nor the ingame events
its very counter intuitive and often out of logic
i mean when going deep playing else its easy as an anno or factorio

[TheAmishStig]

Originally posted by Jon144:

In in-game times really don't seem to correspond well to distances. It certainly wouldn't take me so many hours to walk a kilometer or two. Same thing with buses... seems pretty ridiculous that a short bus ride to downtown would take someone more than an hour of traveling when its under a kilometer away.

That's a deliberate design decision...in a game like this where "in-game time" elapsing matters you have to have several different timescales, and different ways those timescales can be modified on a contextual basis. This game is no different in that regard...everything running at true 1:1 or locking everything to one timescale would make the game unplayable.

For example, if everything was hard-locked to the base timescale of 1 real-world minute = 1 in-game hour, then:

• A 60km/h bus would be zipping around at 3600km/h...nearly Mach 3...from our
  perspective. At those speeds it'd be no different from teleportation.
  
• A citizen walking at 6km/h would be zipping around at 360km/h from our perspective. At the distances citizens walk it would take them just 4 seconds to reach maximum range, and they would appear to us to be moving faster than a Le Mans Prototype.
  
• A citizen would need 2,628 real-world hours to go from being born to joining the workforce at age 18.
  
• The "growing" stage for a field of crops would take 96 real-world hours to complete the 240-day growth cycle [for wheat, which is shown in-game]
  
• To cover a typical 1960 to 2000 playthrough would take 14,580 hours of gameplay...or approximately 24 months of playing the game 8 hours a day.
  
• For a more realistic 40-hour playthrough, a mere 100 in-game days would elapse; your playthrough would end on April 10th of whatever year you started in.

No thanks. If I want that kind of unrelenting, uncompromising realism I'll go outside.

[tea_bush]

Besides longer walking distance would mean more available buildings per citizen, and that would lead to quadratic growth of processing time needed to manage the population.

[tripodalt]

yes its true but the problem
is a real world player who not codded this math
dont know what is real time or worker time or day time or age time or animation time or electric time
it will be far more intuitive
to not write anything about day or hour or year or second or minute
but some percentage or counter
as %
so a cityzen have on 100% cycle include 25% worktime and 75% personnal
max travel time is relative to it as sport time is some%
or anything humanlly understandable