Auto build too fast?

[Actionjackson]

What do you guys think?

I read many complain that self building is slow. I had to find out, it is not "that" slow. If you have enough mechanism on construction site and 2 full construction office(or more, but 2 are fine) working on the job, there is good progress. (Not talking about rail, i did not try rail self building yet)

I just think the extremely rapid "auto build" speed spoils everyone. Should auto build take at least a little bit longer maybe? Or you like how you can erect huge buildings in a matter of seconds?

I think if they slow autobuilding, by like "half speed" it is still very very fast but does not look like you build a C&C 2 red alert base with exteme speed of building.

[千仞万渊]

it makes sense, this is not a competing game, auto build speed would not provide much profit.

And, auto build cost much more about 150% or even more of self build. Foreign labour is mostly 700%-800% of your labor, and you,will suffer magnificent freight fee as a single building requires astronmical amount of material, and freight is charged by weight, no matter its worthless gravel or valuable eletrics.

[BabaRoga]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

What do you guys think?

I read many complain that self building is slow. I had to find out, it is not "that" slow. If you have enough mechanism on construction site and 2 full construction office(or more, but 2 are fine) working on the job, there is good progress. (Not talking about rail, i did not try rail self building yet)

I just think the extremely rapid "auto build" speed spoils everyone. Should auto build take at least a little bit longer maybe? Or you like how you can erect huge buildings in a matter of seconds?

I think if they slow autobuilding, by like "half speed" it is still very very fast but does not look like you build a C&C 2 red alert base with exteme speed of building.

Why don't you try playing the game, building everything yourself. See how much time you end up waiting for stuff to be built.

Building few buildings with bunch of construction offices and throwing some numbers around is different thing to spending 5 in game years building a road/rail to new industry, hauling materials and workforce around to build city, roads, industry, infrastructure, etc.
And most of that time is just spent waiting for construction to finish.

It's time consuming and slow, regardless of how fast auto-build speed is.

There are people that don't mind spending all that time watching trains and cars go around their business then there are people that would rather build stuff and move on.

Slow is matter of opinion.

I'm sure devs will have a look into it when they

[Actionjackson]

I did not say self building is too fast, its the auto building that is, compared to self building. If you want to erect a complete city yourself you better have more than 2 or 3 construction offices to do it or you wait very long, sure that.
The thing is, auto building is like "magic", they do the same things, erect a building but somehow they compleat it in seconds while you have to work on it over time when you self build.

I do auto build all the cheap stuff, but i started self building the big expensive buildings, and when you throw a lot of mechanism at it its not that slow, that is all that i was saying about that.

But i see i hit a soft spot with some, nevermind what i said.

[BabaRoga]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

I did not say self building is too fast, its the auto building that is, compared to self building. If you want to erect a complete city yourself you better have more than 2 or 3 construction offices to do it or you wait very long, sure that.
The thing is, auto building is like "magic", they do the same things, erect a building but somehow they compleat it in seconds while you have to work on it over time when you self build.

I do auto build all the cheap stuff, but i started self building the big expensive buildings, and when you throw a lot of mechanism at it its not that slow, that is all that i was saying about that.

But i see i hit a soft spot with some, nevermind what i said.

I didn't say self build is too fast either, it's to slow.

You started with building a few large buildings and throwing bunch of COs at it, great fun.

Building stuff is fun, but trying to build everything takes too long. It has nothing to do with Auto-build speed nor money.
When I wait for stuff to get built, I have more than enough money just to finish everything on auto-build.
But that defeats the purpose of having fun by constructing your own way.

Better question for you to answer would be: would it bother you or change anything for you if construction is faster?

As for nerve:
Do you think I'd hit a nerve if I tried modding a map, put 2 buildings and then declare how everything is fine with it even tho bunch of people who use it complain about issues with it?
I think yes?

[MG83]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

What do you guys think?

I read many complain that self building is slow. I had to find out, it is not "that" slow. If you have enough mechanism on construction site and 2 full construction office(or more, but 2 are fine) working on the job, there is good progress. (Not talking about rail, i did not try rail self building yet)

I just think the extremely rapid "auto build" speed spoils everyone. Should auto build take at least a little bit longer maybe? Or you like how you can erect huge buildings in a matter of seconds?

I think if they slow autobuilding, by like "half speed" it is still very very fast but does not look like you build a C&C 2 red alert base with exteme speed of building.

Auto build is about wasting money . Self build is about conserving money. If you consider things like captialist "i can buy" then auto build is the life for you. But when it comes to be "able to construct" instead of buying then you go self construct . self construct takes theorically 0 money when you are able to produce all resources.

many people plays the game in the small scale i am included in that too but when you start building massive and your citizens require huge amount of food meat clothing etc your export capacity will limit you through custom houses then you will require to self build.

at start of game there is some certain number that makes feasible to build self. For example when you build 1 gravel quarry and 1 gravel processing plant you require to produce aproximately 4k ton gravel and use it at self construction to get back the investment you made to gravel processing plant. so its not feasible if you are building small towns since transportation cost of gravel is high too .

[TheAmishStig]

I'd have to do math to confirm...but I think the auto-build speed is identical to the self-build speed if you had full workers, max productivity workers, the best equipment, etc, so really all you're "saving" is whatever inefficiencies your system has...stoppages waiting for materials, slowdowns from less-productive workers, slowdowns waiting for mechanisms to arrive, slowdowns from fewer workers than are possible, etc. When you auto-build something massive like a TV station or a tunnel those inefficiencies compound quickly, but even when auto-building it takes a good long while to construct either one.

[Actionjackson]

Originally posted by TheAmishStig:

I'd have to do math to confirm...but I think the auto-build speed is identical to the self-build speed if you had full workers, max productivity workers, the best equipment, etc, so really all you're "saving" is whatever inefficiencies your system has...

You think so? That would be interesting to know. So if you throw enough material and workers at construction you think it will be almost as fast as auto build? That would be quick indeed. I think i need to download the larger constuction offices mods from the workshop

Originally posted by BabaRoga:

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

...

I didn't say self build is too fast either, it's to slow.

You started with building a few large buildings and throwing bunch of COs at it, great fun.

Building stuff is fun, but trying to build everything takes too long. It has nothing to do with Auto-build speed nor money.
When I wait for stuff to get built, I have more than enough money just to finish everything on auto-build.
But that defeats the purpose of having fun by constructing your own way.

Better question for you to answer would be: would it bother you or change anything for you if construction is faster?

As for nerve:
Do you think I'd hit a nerve if I tried modding a map, put 2 buildings and then declare how everything is fine with it even tho bunch of people who use it complain about issues with it?
I think yes?

Uhm... okayyyy, you like auto build i get it. Auto build away.
But if you expect to raise whole citys in one or two ingame months, while the game runs for 40, 50, 60 years, it is just not plausible. If you want to build everything yourself you will need a lot of mechanism and prepare load of workers for that. I dont know what you expect, you want to self build whole citys in 1-2 ingame month or what?

I was just asking what people think, i am not taking away your loly.

[MG83]

Originally posted by TheAmishStig:

I'd have to do math to confirm...but I think the auto-build speed is identical to the self-build speed if you had full workers, max productivity workers, the best equipment, etc, so really all you're "saving" is whatever inefficiencies your system has...stoppages waiting for materials, slowdowns from less-productive workers, slowdowns waiting for mechanisms to arrive, slowdowns from fewer workers than are possible, etc. When you auto-build something massive like a TV station or a tunnel those inefficiencies compound quickly, but even when auto-building it takes a good long while to construct either one.

hmm maybe.

[BabaRoga]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

Originally posted by TheAmishStig:

I'd have to do math to confirm...but I think the auto-build speed is identical to the self-build speed if you had full workers, max productivity workers, the best equipment, etc, so really all you're "saving" is whatever inefficiencies your system has...

You think so? That would be interesting to know. So if you throw enough material and workers at construction you think it will be almost as fast as auto build? That would be quick indeed. I think i need to download the larger constuction offices mods from the workshop :lunar2019grinningpig:

Originally posted by BabaRoga:

I didn't say self build is too fast either, it's to slow.

You started with building a few large buildings and throwing bunch of COs at it, great fun.

Building stuff is fun, but trying to build everything takes too long. It has nothing to do with Auto-build speed nor money.
When I wait for stuff to get built, I have more than enough money just to finish everything on auto-build.
But that defeats the purpose of having fun by constructing your own way.

Better question for you to answer would be: would it bother you or change anything for you if construction is faster?

As for nerve:
Do you think I'd hit a nerve if I tried modding a map, put 2 buildings and then declare how everything is fine with it even tho bunch of people who use it complain about issues with it?
I think yes?

Uhm... okayyyy, you like auto build i get it. Auto build away.
But if you expect to raise whole citys in one or two ingame months, while the game runs for 40, 50, 60 years, it is just not plausible. If you want to build everything yourself you will need a lot of mechanism and prepare load of workers for that. I dont know what you expect, you want to self build whole citys in 1-2 ingame month or what?

I was just asking what people think, i am not taking away your loly.

Am I speaking Chinese or you deliberately repeat a completely opposite thing of what I said?

[Thomas]

I think it will be better if we pay for auto build and then construction vehicles come from border,deliver materials and build it.They need roads so dirt roads need to be there .

[BabaRoga]

Originally posted by TheAmishStig:

I'd have to do math to confirm...but I think the auto-build speed is identical to the self-build speed if you had full workers, max productivity workers, the best equipment, etc, so really all you're "saving" is whatever inefficiencies your system has...stoppages waiting for materials, slowdowns from less-productive workers, slowdowns waiting for mechanisms to arrive, slowdowns from fewer workers than are possible, etc. When you auto-build something massive like a TV station or a tunnel those inefficiencies compound quickly, but even when auto-building it takes a good long while to construct either one.

I think you summed it up pretty well.
When self building structures, they go up reasonably fast.
As a lot of equipment just keeps feeding resources to the construction site and workers.

You get real inefficiency issues with small bits of roads, where bus drops off 50 workers and they work for second. While bus takes time to go pick up new crew, truck brings 1 tone of asphalt to finish of the bit of road.
It adds up to a lot of time as you have to wait to finish each little section of the road or engage in tiring micro-management.

For example: I have to go and delete every building access road and replace it with dirt road. Suspend building construction so the machinery and workforce would concentrate on road building, etc. To try to speed up the process.
With rail: can't do much other then wait. I haven't figured out any way to speed that one up at all. Other then build well in advance and just buy the rail when I get sick of waiting.

[MG83]

Originally posted by BabaRoga:

You get real inefficiency issues with small bits of roads, where bus drops off 50 workers and they work for second. While bus takes time to go pick up new crew, truck brings 1 tone of asphalt to finish of the bit of road.
It adds up to a lot of time as you have to wait to finish each little section of the road or engage in tiring micro-management.

For example: I have to go and delete every building access road and replace it with dirt road. Suspend building construction so the machinery and workforce would concentrate on road building, etc. To try to speed up the process.
With rail: can't do much other then wait. I haven't figured out any way to speed that one up at all. Other then build well in advance and just buy the rail when I get sick of waiting.

there is several issues with RCO speed efficiency lack of timing or not being able to stockpile 2. phase material during 1. pahse construction tucks picking up workers while site is not fully saturated with material machines going out without flatbed or going to site directly from fuel fill . construction yard entrances having long ques they are significantly slowing the self build process and i think needs to be determined.

[sergetechone]

Hah .... a great discussion .... CO vs Auto build.

I like the speed of the auto build, if you got the cash and short on time.... or want to do a correction of roads / rails ( bulldoze and rebuild ) ... yeah ... auto build ... When you play with barebone money, auto build will not be an option. Using CO is a long process. But you can take advantage of the slow speed.

I am doing a play trying to do self construction ONLY with starting $500 K and R 1 M. With Fuel / Electricity disable, Low setting for the populations, School and daycare setting off, Risk of Fire disable, start in 1960 , vehicle lock. Using the regular game map.

As a start, use autobuild... One oil well close the West border ( North of the map ) One road depot and a few trucks to carry oil. Same south of the may, to carry oil to the East border. These will be your "income". At the north, close to the West border near the road , I quick build - warehouse for and loading dock for --- Gravel, Steel, Prefab, Bricks, Boads, Mech and Elec comp. Set them for auto buy only 20 t max. The transport fee should be well under $ 0.50 per ton per km. NOT $ 5, not $20 not $100. Quick build a CO not far to the big city, and within city , Alphaft and Concrete factory set to auto buy the gravel, cement and bitumen. Anto build a bus station that cover most of the city. THAT IT !!! for auto build. The rest is being build yourself using import matherials from the border, and expand by build the matherials factory first to cut on matherials cost.

Since the oil income is about $ 10 k / month, the slow build process kind of help out by not draining your cash, the only issue : buying vehicles ... And the STEEL !!! It SO expensive LOL

[Actionjackson]

Originally posted by Thomas:

I think it will be better if we pay for auto build and then construction vehicles come from border,deliver materials and build it.They need roads so dirt roads need to be there .

I think that would be very nice, but i dont think it will ever happen.

Originally posted by MG83:

...construction yard entrances having long ques they are significantly slowing the self build process and i think needs to be determined.

This is the same as problem as with the bus stops and the hospital and every other building where vehicles can enter, i hope that is fixed soonish.

I also wonder why some vehicles keep going back to the CO while the construction is not finished at all. They drive back, park for a second and than go back out doin the same they did before.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally posted by Actionjackson:

I also wonder why some vehicles keep going back to the CO while the construction is not finished at all. They drive back, park for a second and than go back out doin the same they did before.

From the outside looking in, that seems to come from how the "assign a job" code works; it taps into the Route functionality, but can only give a vehicle orders when the vehicle is on-site (or possibly in the "hot spot"...I don't remember if outgoing vehicles hit the space too).

I found that out by accident...trying to find the dumper I was looking on I clicked one that belonged to the CO, and was surprised to see it had a route...go to X, load Y, go to Z, unload Y...which it performs once and then returns to base for new orders. Even things like Harvesters get routes, but either they or the field have some sort of override in place so that 'load' is 'work the field'.

It's also what I expect to be one of the bigger hang-ups in the 'multiple vehicles in motion' experiment...figure a building will never have more vehicles in motion than it does available "docks" or "hotspots" or whatever you want to call them [the parking spots with an X through them]...so a Large bus stop I'm betting will eventually allow 4 vehicles in motion, the farm 3, and etc. Who knows, it may even be using the 'signal' code under the hood right now.