cantina upgrade guide?

[Teao]

Anyone know of a cantina upgrade guide? stuff like:
"I found these upgrades are pointless and this one pointless on AI"
"prioritize jump jet upgrades in this order."
etc

[Bovril Brigadier]

You know I have not seen one funny enough. I might reply to this thread later in the day after the macaroon hunt with a detailed list.

[vine]

heh lol :D fyi i'm very close to finishing the game, and i have not used a single canteen upgrade on a mech. not a single one. you don't need them, really.

[user19990313]

Okay, I am actually bored enough to make a crude guide to catalina upgrades... What I'm going to post looks like some kind of copypasta, but that's the best I can do to make it actually readable. I'm planning to make it into an actual guide (since I've already spend this much time to do it), so feel free to comment and discuss about the upgrade loadout. I might update the detailed explanation for each loadout later.

The lookup table:
*The initials stands for the catalina mission type, the number stands for the level to unlock that upgrade. Use Ctrl+F to lookup efficiently.*

EC1	+15% JJ time
EC2	+7.5% turn speed
EC3	+7.5% energy range and velocity
EC4	-7.5% laser duration
EC5	+2.5% armor
EC6	+10% weapon range and velocity
EC7	+20% sensor range
EC8	+15% ballistic range and velocity
EC9	-10% energy cooldown
EC10	-7.5% weapon cooldown
MC1	-5% energy cooldown
MC2	+5% ballistic damage
MC3	+5% heat cap
MC4	+5% weapon damage
MC5	-2.5% missile heat
MC6	+10% energy damage
MC7	-5% ballistic heat
MC8	+10% missile damage
MC9	-5% energy heat
MC10	-5% heat generation
MH1	+20% JJ refill rate
MH2	+5% structure
MH3	+7.5% ballistic range and velocity
MH4	-7.5% missile spread
MH5	+5% energy damage
MH6	-2.5% ballistic heat
MH7	+20% acceleration&deceleration
MH8	+15% missile range and velocity
MH9	-10% ballistic cooldown
MH10	+10% heat cap
TH1	+7.5% missile range and velocity
TH2	-5% ballistic cooldown
TH3	+5% missile damage
TH4	+5% heat dissipation
TH5	-2.5% energy heat
TH6	-10% missile cooldown
TH7	+5% armor
TH8	+10% ballistic damage
TH9	-5% missile heat
TH10	-2.5% weapon heat
WD1	+10% sensor range
WD2	+25% target lock retention and lose lock time
WD3	+15% JJ acceleration
WD4	+10% acceleration&deceleration
WD5	+20% torso twist speed
WD6	-5% missile cooldown
WD7	+15% turn speed
WD8	+10% structure
WD9	+15% energy range and velocity
WD10	+15% top speed

[user19990313]

Tip: Ctrl+F to see what the initials+number stands for.

The 3 basic weapon carriers, using 3 or 6 upgrade slots (all 3 slot plans use only upgrades with low Catalina level requirements to make it applicable in early-mid games):

3 slot energy: MC1,MC3,TC4/EC4
6 slot energy boat: MH5,MC6, (EC4,MH10/EC4,MC10,Any=brawler laser)/(MC1,EC9=chem laser)

3 slot ballistic: MC2,MH3,TH2
6 slot ballistic boat: MC2,TH8, (MH3,MH9/EC10,TH2=AC20 brawler)/(MC4,TH2=AC10 brawler)/(MC4,MC10=UAC5)

3 slot LRM: TH1,TH3,MH4
6 slot LRM boat: TH3,MC8,MH8, (WD1/WD2/WD6/MC10=player mech)/(MC10/MH4=AI support, MH4 useless if ST-Art)


Quote from reddit user u/Skolloc753 :

You need an alpha damage (damage with one shot without cooldown) of 46 to breach the armor and the structure of a cockpit.

It is unclear if they mean a safe value considering enemy AI skill, or just mistaken from MWO, but basically you only need +10% ballistic damage and dual T5 gauss to guarantee this one-shot alpha damage, or very likely with upgrade, dual T4 gauss and a good pilot.

Dual Gauss sniper: TH8, (Any=T5 Gauss)/(MC2,Any=T4 Gauss, good pilot)/(MC2,MC4,MH3/MC2,MH3,MH9=normal Gauss, or prefer coring)
Dual Heavy Rifle: TH8,MC2, (MC10,MC7=cooling rate<2)/(MC10,MH9/MH10,TH2=good cooling, or higher tier rifle)
Dual PPC sniper: MH5,MC6,MC10,MH10


SRM boat: MC8,TH3,MC10,EC5,WD10


Loadout for some meta/frequently-used mechs:

Dervish-6D (5 slots, SRM, my favorite): TH3,EC5,WD6,MC3,TH5/MC8,MC10,EC5,WD10
Archer-AGC (8 slots, LRM): TH3,MC8,MH8,MC10, (a combination of TH4,MH4,WD1,WD2,WD10,MC3 or just MH10)
Archer-AGC (8 slots, SRM): TH3,MC8,EC5,WD10,MC10, (MH10/MC3,MC5)
Atlas-BH (8 slots, mixed, mostly laser): MC4,MC6,MH10,Any
Corsair-PVT (8 slots, Dual Gauss Sniper): MC4,TH8,WD5,WD7,WD10
Firestarter-E (8 slots, 4 Flamer+4 MG): MC4,MC6,WD3,MC10,WD10,EC5
Rifleman-DNA (8 slots, Dual Gauss Sniper): MC4,TH8,MH9, (TH7/EC3,EC5)
King Crab-CAR (8 slots, 4 UAC+LRM30): MC4,TH8,WD10,MC10,(MC2,MH6/MH10)
King Crab-KJ (8 slots, 4 PPC Sniper): MC6,MC10,MH10,WD10, (MC9/TH4,EC3)

Charger-1A1: (somehow 8 slots): EC5,MH2,TH7,WD8,EC2,WD10. Yes this build let you charge into brawling range and melee enemy mechs. A life insurance here is recommended for this build.


Again, I must be really bored to make this...

[Teao]

Originally posted by vine:

heh lol :D fyi i'm very close to finishing the game, and i have not used a single canteen upgrade on a mech. not a single one. you don't need them, really.

I mean since it came in a DLC, obviously they aren't needed. That's not the point.

[Bovril Brigadier]

User beat me to it. Had issues making screenshots of it.
I will like to make some notes:
MH4 -7.5% missile spread
Grab this if you are making an LRM boat, trust me its worth it. Way more than damage modules. I was coring Mechs left right and centre using a Catapult C1b with twin LRM-15 ARTIV streams with zero damage modules. Much faster than an Awesome 8V with twin LRM-20 ARTIV streams with damage modules.

WD1 +10% sensor range
WD2 +25% target lock retention and lose lock time
EC7 +20% sensor range
These seem useless right now. I don't know if they are bugged or not but basically I was struggling to lock targets in open plains and losing them instantly at 800m. To put it in perspective I used Mechs without these upgrades and I could lock on much further away and retain the lock better. Its almost like they are actively reducing sensor range and how long you can lock a target for.

[user19990313]

Originally posted by Strayed:

WD1 +10% sensor range
WD2 +25% target lock retention and lose lock time
EC7 +20% sensor range
These seem useless right now. I don't know if they are bugged or not but basically I was struggling to lock targets in open plains and losing them instantly at 800m. To put it in perspective I used Mechs without these upgrades and I could lock on much further away and retain the lock better. Its almost like they are actively reducing sensor range and how long you can lock a target for.

WD2 is definitely a player-only thing; however, WD1 and EC7 benefit the entire lance if they are installed on your mech. That is, if you are piloting LRM support platform you definitely want to acquire target much further; if you let AI lance mate hold the position with LRM boat, it is much more potent, because AI will actually prefer targets within YOUR sensor range unless under immediate threat. Suppose your sensor range is 800m, AI lance mate LRM range is 1000m, you can grab +20% sensor range upgrade and both you and your lance will have an effective engagement range of 960m.
Granted, these upgrades are kinda situational, so you should insert other more useful upgrades in place of these unless your play style demands it.

[Bovril Brigadier]

Originally posted by user19990313:

WD2 is definitely a player-only thing; however, WD1 and EC7 benefit the entire lance if they are installed on your mech. That is, if you are piloting LRM support platform you definitely want to acquire target much further; if you let AI lance mate hold the position with LRM boat, it is much more potent, because AI will actually prefer targets within YOUR sensor range unless under immediate threat. Suppose your sensor range is 800m, AI lance mate LRM range is 1000m, you can grab +20% sensor range upgrade and both you and your lance will have an effective engagement range of 960m.
Granted, these upgrades are kinda situational, so you should insert other more useful upgrades in place of these unless your play style demands it.

Weird thing is that we were doing exactly this and it didn't work.

[user19990313]

Originally posted by Strayed:

Originally posted by user19990313:

WD2 is definitely a player-only thing; however, WD1 and EC7 benefit the entire lance if they are installed on your mech. That is, if you are piloting LRM support platform you definitely want to acquire target much further; if you let AI lance mate hold the position with LRM boat, it is much more potent, because AI will actually prefer targets within YOUR sensor range unless under immediate threat. Suppose your sensor range is 800m, AI lance mate LRM range is 1000m, you can grab +20% sensor range upgrade and both you and your lance will have an effective engagement range of 960m.
Granted, these upgrades are kinda situational, so you should insert other more useful upgrades in place of these unless your play style demands it.

Weird thing is that we were doing exactly this and it didn't work.

Let's see what others would say (I wanted to test it myself, but I only have modded saves right now, and Instant action won't let me add upgrades...)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/784080/discussions/0/5545618081303671949/