Ballistic weapons just feel bad.

[Chewy102]

I love me some AC20s or Gauss weapons. They punch like hell and you often don't need more than 1 of them but there's several mechs that can use 2 to just core most other mechs in a single shot if you aim well.

Every single other ballistic weapon? I just can't find any reason to use ANY of them! There's always something that prevents anything Iv tried from being viable. Tonnage, cit slots, ammo, DPS, there is always something bad and often multiple things together.

To give a rundown. I use YAML so it's very easy to mix/match weapons and have a few modded mechs. My last mission had 2 Warhammers and 1 Ani.

WH1 is a modded mech and isn't that bad. Has 2 RAC5 and 4 MP lasers. But I just can't depend on RAC5 due to them constantly jamming rather often leading to depending on laser vomit. This is even a modded mech and has perks to make give lower jam odds and lower heat build up for RAC weapons.

WH2 is the same mech as WH1 but is left in it's default state and very much weaksauce. 4 RAC2s can deal DPS, but they almost never have enough accuracy needed to kill before taking fair amounts of damage that just adds up too quickly over a mission. It also can't depend on it's SP lasers due to how weak those are.

Ani is a joke. 4 RAC5s has the DPS and can melt most anything. But it legit burns the mech inside out from heat and I don't think I can fix that without dropping at least 1 RAC5 due to having no tonnage or slots for heatsinks. And if I do that it'll just be a worse WH1.

That mission went well but WH2 lost it's LT simply because all 3 of my mechs didn't have the DPS needed to deal with a 4 mech lance drop before they nearly cored WH2. It's nearly the same story for most missions where I take a ballistic focused lance. Weak DPS, no enough focused damage, ammo limits, and just finding a mech with multiple "useable" ballistic slots isn't easy from how many crit slots those weapons take.

Compare that to laser based lances. Got a King Crab with 6 MP lasers and 2 Gauss. That SINGLE mech can often solo entire missions due to just how much better laser are. The Gauss do their job but the vast majority of damage is done by those 6 MP lasers and there's more than enough tonnage and crit slots for heat sinks to almost never worry about heat. Early on I found a rare Ani and kitted it out with 4 L lasers and 4 M lasers. That thing soloed most of my early missions and with minimal upgrades is STILL a core mech of my lance in mid/late game from just how much better lasers are.

The only case where I found ballistic weapons good was in demolition missions. And even in those I just use AC20s as they take entire chunks of buildings out while also being very good against other mechs. UACs, RACs, machine guns, nothing else feels worth taking as all of those are just slower to destroy buildings and slower to kill mechs.

[Rotiart]

RACs have the highest DPS in the entire game. Pretty much only Assaults are going to need more than one salvo to core out, and they're accurate at close - mid range and they're extremely easy to use.

UACs have the highest burst damage in the entire game. Two bursts from a double UAC 10 is enough to core out anything below 90 tons, and the cooldown is so short that you'll have another volley more before the enemy has a chance to return fire. That's to say nothing of the monster that is double UAC 20. 80 damage on one component. Hard not to salivate at the thought

LBXes have very short cooldown and are the most weight efficient auto cannons. Two LBX-10 Cluster shots is a total of 30 damage, and they have the fastest recycle time in the entire Autocannon Family.

[Capt.EO]

the hero blackjack with six (6) tier 5 mg will tear stuff up bro. with cantina upgrades its ferocious . its not the kind of mech for head on battling but it can definitely open big tin cans really quick from behind. but youre still right ---mg so weak it takes 5 or 6 mg to really do anything much.

[Chewy102]

Not gonna give up trying. But it just doesn't seem worth the effort to plan out a ballistic mech in figuring out how to kit a sustainable ballistic mech when laser vomit is just so damned easy.

Really want to just have a DAKKA lance. But I can't exactly find that many mechs with ballistic slots anyway. Most of what Iv found are light-Med mechs. Think I only found 1 Assault mech with multiple ballistic slots and that's the Ani with 4. Every other has like 1 or 2. But almost ALL mechs have 4 or more laser slots.

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by Chewy102:

Not gonna give up trying. But it just doesn't seem worth the effort to plan out a ballistic mech in figuring out how to kit a sustainable ballistic mech when laser vomit is just so damned easy.

Really want to just have a DAKKA lance. But I can't exactly find that many mechs with ballistic slots anyway. Most of what Iv found are light-Med mechs. Think I only found 1 Assault mech with multiple ballistic slots and that's the Ani with 4. Every other has like 1 or 2. But almost ALL mechs have 4 or more laser slots.

The thing about ballistics is you won't need more than 2 slots unless you're running MGs or low calibre ACs. Even double AC-BF is pretty decent. I threw two AC/5-BF on my poverty Battlemaster 1G and thing deals the most damage out of my entire lance pretty consistently. Only thing other than MGs I can think of that needs more than 2 slots is UAC/5 Spam

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Chewy102:

That mission went well but WH2 lost it's LT simply because all 3 of my mechs didn't have the DPS needed to deal with a 4 mech lance drop before they nearly cored WH2. It's nearly the same story for most missions where I take a ballistic focused lance. Weak DPS, no enough focused damage, ammo limits, and just finding a mech with multiple "useable" ballistic slots isn't easy from how many crit slots those weapons take.

Before I begin, the following all is based on a non-modded experience.

In my original, stupidly long career (like 100+ years), I had all the best Atlas Ks and Marauder IIs and Nightstars--all outfitted with some combination of either Gauss or LB-10X, and ER PPCs. That worked very well.

In my latest career, which is barely 30 years old, and I have none of the advanced mechs I had previously, I'm forced to improvise until I find something else on the market.

The Annihilator has filled that niche admirably. I therefore bought 3 of them; 2 ballistic and one energy. The energy is fine in my hands, but the AI does very mediocre work in it--it's lucky to reach 900 damage.

The AI excels in using the ballistic Annies, however. One has quad LB-10X solid shot, the other has quad LB-10X in scatter shot. These are the rocks of my A-team lance. I have since replaced the energy Annie with the King Crab CAR; it mounts quad AC/5 bursts and 2 LRM10s. AI does fine in that, as do I.

So I'm thinking your ballistic issues are less to do with ballistics, and more to do with YAML and whatever other mods you're using.

[Veolfen]

Honestly, take a look at LB10X. Especially the SLD variants (tho if you only have LB10X cluster, since you have YAML you can change the ammo type in battle so np).

Those things are beastly especially once you get high tier ones. Very high velocity, good range, high dps : they are by far the best autocanons of Vanilla MW5... but also YAML MW5.

[Valen]

I suggest that you seek medical help if you can not overcome your urge to feel ballistic weapons whenever you encounter them.

[necro55]

Valen i could t agree more. Always have a strong urge to dakka dakka.

[Chewy102]

Oh, I love me some dakka DAKKA! It's the whole reason why Im putting this much effort into making a ballistic focused mech lance.

But I thing that's my problem. I want a mech where ballistic weapons are it's MAIN source of damage! And have lasers or missiles as support roles who can help in a fight but shouldn't feel "needed" throughout an entire mission.

Haven't found any decent amount or tiered LBX cannons yet as suggested to give them a proper attempt. But I did find a stash of C-UAC20s and tossed 2 of those onto my missile boat King Crab and refitted the twin C-Gauss cannons off of my main KG who uses 6 C-MP lasers for twin RAC5s.

Murder doesn't describe how much better those 2 mechs are at killing. But they still have the same issues as before where their ballistic weapons often fall short when used as the main source of damage. Mainly in how short they can last in a fight. Ammo is a VERY large limiter by itself. C-UAC20s eat ammo like NOTHING Iv seen! You explode anything in front of you, but it takes like 3-5 double-tone ammo packs to sustain a whole mission for a total of 6-10 tones of ammo and as many crit slots. And as before the RAC5s melt stuff but can't be a sustained damage source from the weapons forever jamming if you have more than 1 target. Then you have the cirt slots and tonnage for the weapons themselves taking even more of the limited space who is shared by heat sinks, engines, armor ferro, and more like your secondary weapons. Not easy fitting all of that on a 100 tone mech, anything less is just not enough.

Maybe I just suck too much and/or ballistic weapons aren't meant to be a main damage source. They feel fine as a support weapon, but they simply take far too many tones and crit slots to have enough of them to be a main weapon.

Or maybe it's the enemy spam in MW5? 1v1, ballistic is great. 2, 3, 5, or MORE targets though?! There's just not enough sustainability to last in constant fights throughout the whole mission.

[Rotiart]

UACs are among the more ammo inefficient weapons you can get your hands on. As a rule of thumb, the harder it shoots, the more ammo you will need. If you want backup weapons like medium lasers, try LB 10s. I have a Warhammer that uses 2 LBX/10s 3 tons of ammo each and it is quite overfed. You could probably get away with 2 tons each. I have a compliment of 6 Medium lasers on this mech as well. This is one of my best damage dealers.

[Clever Name]

Originally posted by Chewy102:

Murder doesn't describe how much better those 2 mechs are at killing. But they still have the same issues as before where their ballistic weapons often fall short when used as the main source of damage. Mainly in how short they can last in a fight. Ammo is a VERY large limiter by itself. C-UAC20s eat ammo like NOTHING Iv seen! You explode anything in front of you, but it takes like 3-5 double-tone ammo packs to sustain a whole mission for a total of 6-10 tones of ammo and as many crit slots.

This is purely a mod issue more than an MW5 ballistics issue.

You really don't need ultra rate of fire in AC/20s. I mean, anybody who's used the Cyclops-S in regular MW5 knows this.

Only reason Clan UACs work in MWO is the mech perks that give you free extra ammo per ton. That, and fights generally don't last as long as they can in MW5 missions.

Also, the fact that you have Clan UAC20s and Gauss rifles without having found LBXs also tells me something is screwy with the mod drop rates.

LB-10X are not that rare in regular MW5. Tier 4s are fairly available on the markets, and tier 5s are easy to farm via canteen missions. You should have no difficulty kitting out 2-3 mechs with quality LB-10Xs.

[Chewy102]

Originally posted by Clever Name:

Originally posted by Chewy102:

Murder doesn't describe how much better those 2 mechs are at killing. But they still have the same issues as before where their ballistic weapons often fall short when used as the main source of damage. Mainly in how short they can last in a fight. Ammo is a VERY large limiter by itself. C-UAC20s eat ammo like NOTHING Iv seen! You explode anything in front of you, but it takes like 3-5 double-tone ammo packs to sustain a whole mission for a total of 6-10 tones of ammo and as many crit slots.

This is purely a mod issue more than an MW5 ballistics issue.

You really don't need ultra rate of fire in AC/20s. I mean, anybody who's used the Cyclops-S in regular MW5 knows this.

Only reason Clan UACs work in MWO is the mech perks that give you free extra ammo per ton. That, and fights generally don't last as long as they can in MW5 missions.

Also, the fact that you have Clan UAC20s and Gauss rifles without having found LBXs also tells me something is screwy with the mod drop rates.

LB-10X are not that rare in regular MW5. Tier 4s are fairly available on the markets, and tier 5s are easy to farm via canteen missions. You should have no difficulty kitting out 2-3 mechs with quality LB-10Xs.

Possible there's a mod screwing with shops. Iv found some LBX weapons, but they are normally tier 0-2 at most or are mostly the cluster variant instead of the solid variant.

Shopping for weapons isn't all that easy in general. You will always find SEVERAL weapons to choose from, but finding the exact ones you want can often have me go through multiple industrial hubs. That plus the costs for traveling or general upkeep and the low(ish) payments for missions it can take even longer.

Travel costs is the default 50K. But upkeep is over 1 mill now and that adds up. Missions only give like 2-4 mill if I recall right not counting salvage. And doing harder missions does give better pay up to I think 6mill but can sometimes lead to high damage or lost parts leading to higher repairs when going against multiple assault mechs at a time. Im running low on MP lasers in fact and am completely out of C-MP due to a few too many high damage missions adding up where the AI managed to focus fire on either me or a lance mate to pop a part or 2.

It simply takes a while to save up like 30mill. And that 30mill doesn't really last from upkeep costs traveling all over the place looking for certain weapons. Most I think IV had was 45-50mill from just cleaning up a string of lower level campaign missions I forgot about. Then when I do find that certain weapon, often enough it's lower tier meaning I need to buy a LOT of copies of them to combine for higher tiers making that 30mill run dry even faster.

It just takes a good while to build up an inventory worth using. I simply got lucky as hell finding a shop with 4 tier 3 C-UAC20s.

[Azure]

Seems like the problem is relying too much on DPS Ballistics and not enough Alpha Ballistics, the RACs are cool weapons (heh) but when you have that many of them you are missing the upfront that almost any other Ballistic weapon can give

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by Chewy102:

Originally posted by Clever Name:

This is purely a mod issue more than an MW5 ballistics issue.

You really don't need ultra rate of fire in AC/20s. I mean, anybody who's used the Cyclops-S in regular MW5 knows this.

Only reason Clan UACs work in MWO is the mech perks that give you free extra ammo per ton. That, and fights generally don't last as long as they can in MW5 missions.

Also, the fact that you have Clan UAC20s and Gauss rifles without having found LBXs also tells me something is screwy with the mod drop rates.

LB-10X are not that rare in regular MW5. Tier 4s are fairly available on the markets, and tier 5s are easy to farm via canteen missions. You should have no difficulty kitting out 2-3 mechs with quality LB-10Xs.

Possible there's a mod screwing with shops. Iv found some LBX weapons, but they are normally tier 0-2 at most or are mostly the cluster variant instead of the solid variant.

Shopping for weapons isn't all that easy in general. You will always find SEVERAL weapons to choose from, but finding the exact ones you want can often have me go through multiple industrial hubs. That plus the costs for traveling or general upkeep and the low(ish) payments for missions it can take even longer.

Travel costs is the default 50K. But upkeep is over 1 mill now and that adds up. Missions only give like 2-4 mill if I recall right not counting salvage. And doing harder missions does give better pay up to I think 6mill but can sometimes lead to high damage or lost parts leading to higher repairs when going against multiple assault mechs at a time. Im running low on MP lasers in fact and am completely out of C-MP due to a few too many high damage missions adding up where the AI managed to focus fire on either me or a lance mate to pop a part or 2.

It simply takes a while to save up like 30mill. And that 30mill doesn't really last from upkeep costs traveling all over the place looking for certain weapons. Most I think IV had was 45-50mill from just cleaning up a string of lower level campaign missions I forgot about. Then when I do find that certain weapon, often enough it's lower tier meaning I need to buy a LOT of copies of them to combine for higher tiers making that 30mill run dry even faster.

It just takes a good while to build up an inventory worth using. I simply got lucky as hell finding a shop with 4 tier 3 C-UAC20s.

Cluster or Solid slug doesn't matter, the thing about LBX weapons is you can switch their firing mode on the fly after dropping by pressing control and then their fire group. Cluster deals 50% more damage, but solid is, well, solid. So you essentially have a servicable long range option, as well as a brutal short range ripper. Tier 4s deal over 10 damage a second in cluster mode

[Albino Noodle]

Love me some uac 10's and some rac 5's if I can take a set of them, but a lot are a bit meh
if you can only take one.