Do you find TAG1 fun?

[Balder]

Hi,

I just finished the Doom Eternal base game on Nightmare difficulty after a two year-break, and aside from Taras Nabad, and a couple of slayer gates, I didn't find it that difficult. But this time I finally decided to properly learn quick sniping and fast weapon switching combos, so I actively used all the tools I have.

Also, the boss fights were surprisingly decent in terms of difficulty, which made them fun, and not too drawn out.

However, playing TAG1 now (still at the first level), I'm starting to feel less enthusiastic about the game. I realise why I stopped playing Doom Eternal two years ago, and it was TAG1 (I did finish both DLCs).

The choice of monsters in the arenas are just annoying now. At some point getting attacked by several dread knights and mancubus, while being swarmed by smaller enemies is ok. Then you get the Doom Hunter, while being surrounded by shielded demons...oof.

Yes, doing the arena a few times, I get it done. However, now the game is just being obnoxious, and purposefully throwing the worst combinations of demons at you, in progressively smaller and more confined spaces - and I haven't even gotten to the first TAG1 slayer gate yet, or the Blood Swamps.

I can't even imagine doing all this on Ultra Nightmare. The thing about TAG1 are all the cheap deaths I get, by getting stuck between a wall and spawning demons, or being completely overrun by smaller demons while fighting one of the larger ones, lacking room to manoeuvre.

So I basically have two options: either start to memories the spawning and enemy placements, and strategize accordingly - or play more defensively, say when fighting a Doom Hunter, while having 20 other demons shooting at you in a small, confined arena.

The second option makes the arenas more drawn-out and less fun, and the first option takes away some of the skill focus, as you have to rely on memorisation to "cheese" the game.

I love the base game, and IMO they got Nightmare just right. There are a few places, where things are a bit too unpredictable, but overall the game balance is great. TAG1 just feel like being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Yeah, a couple of those Master Levels on Nightmare are probably not for me...

I dunno. For those that strive to be absolute masters of the game, with lighting fast reflexes, and learning the spawn points etc., I'm sure TAG1 is fun. For me, TAG1 makes me want to drop out - yet again, and I LOVE playing the base game.

Sorry for the wall of text, this was a bit of a stream of consciousness-post from me.

[VouZ_nel]

It's so weird to read posts like these, after 400h TAG 1 feels way, way too easy for me lol. If I recall correctly, I've never had any major issues with TAG 1 levels aside from 2 arenas from The Holt.

[Balder]

Originally posted by VouZ_nel:

It's so weird to read posts like these, after 400h TAG 1 feels way, way too easy for me lol. If I recall correctly, I've never had any major issues with TAG 1 levels aside from 2 arenas from The Holt.

400 hours is a big amount, and you are probably in a minority of hardcore DE players. I assume you play on Nightmare, and go for completist runs with all the Slayer gates? That's what really makes these levels difficult IMO.

I've spent about 170 hours total on Doom Eternal, which already is a lot to me. I play exclusively on NIghtmare now (though only previously finished the DLCs at UV, and HMP for the final TA1 map).

After 400h you should know every little detail of those maps, which is kinda my criticism about TAG1. You either have to be extremely effecient and study the spawning points for playing offensively without dying, which becomes too much like homework to me. Otherwise, the maps increasingly become a chore.

I get Doom Eternal is a skill-based game, but maybe I'm just not that into spending hundreds of hours like that. I prefer the more immersive story-based focus of Doom 3 and Doom 2016, preferably with the updated game mechanics of Doom Eternal.

The DLCs also became too light on story IMO. The base game struck a better balance of immersing you in a horror sci-fi story, while giving you great gameplay mechanics and fighting at the same time.

[VouZ_nel]

400h of Doom Eternal overall you silly goose
Have you played any modded levels? That's like 70% of my playtime. Some modded maps are amazing

[Grampire]

I mean, at 170 hours I had most of the game memorized as well, including TAG1 (my time exceeded that going in to TAG2).

TAG1 pushes you to go a bit further in terms of skill than the base campaign does. As you said, you either need to memorize spawns or understand more advanced skills like quickswitching, aerial movement with the meathook, shield buffering, etc.

The TAGs are meant to be an additional challenge, so they shouldn't be pushovers. But even they start to feel pretty easy after a while.

[A polo 13]

Passed it the first time without any huge issue. The only thing that i don´t like about TAG1 (and 2) is the turrets. I find them to be an annoyance that shouldn´t be there, but the rest is mostly entertaining (somethings like the possessed arachnatron in the fog of the bloodswamp mowing you down from afar, or the Cyber Demon in the aisle in the submarine part of the UAC Atlantica Facility are kinda dickish for my taste, but nothing really bad)

[harbinger]

The DLCs are extensions of the original game and they were meant to be harder, like the master levels and some would argue the HORDE mode. I think the DLCs are great, but The Holt's slayer gate is quite difficult at first. You will probably need many attempts to beat it, but there's something worse than 2 Doom Hunters followed by a possessed Marauder, and that is a possessed Marauder, followed by 2 other Marauders, followed by 2 possessed Barons, like in Horde mode. You can do it, but it really takes persistence and it will show who really likes the game. Anyway, nobody is telling you to play the DLCs on nightmare. You can play them on ultra-violence first to get used to them.

[Balder]

When saying "passing them without any huge issue". Define "huge issue". Which difficulty level, and how many deaths/hours before you get frustrated.

I can beat both DLCs, and did 2 years ago, it's the slayer gates and a couple of battle arenas that get annoying - esp. on Nightmare. Yes, I can finish them, though it doesn't necessarily mean I'm having great fun.

Granted, I just began playing DE again about 1.5 weeks ago, and did a completist run of the entire base game on Nightmare. So, there are obviously people here who are much more adept at DE than me - esp. if you've playing the game more regularly, for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

The things I could definitely improve is using blood punch more on larger demons, as well as the meat hook for more flexible aerial movement. Otherwise, I feel like I got most of the techniques down fairly well - but obviously not, if people here can do the DLCs on Ultra Nightmare. That's crazy to me, but kudos to you guys for being able to do that.

Yeah, I never was a "hardcore gamer", I mostly do stuff like Witcher 3, STALKER, Resident Evil Remakes, Crysis, Days Gone etc. I guess crunching for hundreds of hours to master a handful of maps on the highest difficulty, probably isn't for me.

Either way, the base game of Doom Eternal is 10/10 for me, with Nightmare being the perfect difficulty and experience, for the gameplay mechanics and enemy challenge.

[Grampire]

^I've done both TAGs on UN, and I've done TAG1 about a dozen times on UN. It's my favorite part of Eternal, with Blood Swamps being my absolute favorite level in FPS history.

It's definitely the first official content that pushes you to develop your game a bit more, and has an "always on" feeling that can be draining. I spent a lot of time practicing arenas to improve, and it paid off beyond just memorizing spawns. It makes the master levels a lot more manageable.

I'm definitely not an amazing player either, and I don't think you need to be to play Eternal successfully. I just was willing to grind it out and develop a bit of muscle memory for some of the combos/tech and the rest was just applying it correctly.

[A polo 13]

Originally posted by Balder:

When saying "passing them without any huge issue". Define "huge issue". Which difficulty level, and how many deaths/hours before you get frustrated.

I can beat both DLCs, and did 2 years ago, it's the slayer gates and a couple of battle arenas that get annoying - esp. on Nightmare. Yes, I can finish them, though it doesn't necessarily mean I'm having great fun.

Granted, I just began playing DE again about 1.5 weeks ago, and did a completist run of the entire base game on Nightmare. So, there are obviously people here who are much more adept at DE than me - esp. if you've playing the game more regularly, for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

The things I could definitely improve is using blood punch more on larger demons, as well as the meat hook for more flexible aerial movement. Otherwise, I feel like I got most of the techniques down fairly well - but obviously not, if people here can do the DLCs on Ultra Nightmare. That's crazy to me, but kudos to you guys for being able to do that.

Yeah, I never was a "hardcore gamer", I mostly do stuff like Witcher 3, STALKER, Resident Evil Remakes, Crysis, Days Gone etc. I guess crunching for hundreds of hours to master a handful of maps on the highest difficulty, probably isn't for me.

Either way, the base game of Doom Eternal is 10/10 for me, with Nightmare being the perfect difficulty and experience, for the gameplay mechanics and enemy challenge.

Died only once to Samur, and it was because i ended up stucked in one of the elevated plataforms (happened to me in UN). The slayers gate were, as the slayers gate in the base game, a consolidating of my own skills, since they force you to improve yourself without pulling any punches. Sure: they are annoying, but they are also pretty rewarding to complete, since having a game actually pushing you to your limits, makes the whole experience more satisfactory. I don't think i even have 70 hs in the game, and yet i have conquered all the campaigns in UN only having to reset due to some technical issue (like getting stucked in the damn map during the second group of possessed demons). I am still a scrub in some aspects, since for example i don't even use PB at all, exchanging it for the micro misiles mod, thanks to only playing the way it worked for me, and trust me: if i could do it, you will be able to do it too. You just need to find your own way to deal with the different threats the game throws at you. One last thing: I know that some combats can get unsatisfactory to complete, but that's just how playing hard videogames go. You won't always get the full positive experience out of every challenge that get's thrown at you, and that is okay. If the overall experience isn't ruined for you, and you still get the serotonin shot out of conquering that bothering roadblock that it's been getting on your nerves, you didn't waste any time. Not all tests leave a good taste in our mouth, but the sweet flavor of conquering them, it will never leave you.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Almost 600 hours across the game and TAG1 is my preferred set of levels generally. The difficulty picks up after Final Sin so the game is pushing you to use everything you learned and adding things on top. It comes off as brutal but with practice it becomes as easy as the campaign does.

Most importantly though you start out with all the weapons and upgrades. It's not like in the campaign where you start out slow and they have everything slowly introduced to you; you just jump right into the fray with the game not holding back and that's the part I like.

[D.T.]

Originally posted by Show skill w/out ballista boost:

The DLCs are extensions of the original game and they were meant to be harder, like the master levels and some would argue the HORDE mode. I think the DLCs are great, but The Holt's slayer gate is quite difficult at first. You will probably need many attempts to beat it, but there's something worse than 2 Doom Hunters followed by a possessed Marauder, and that is a possessed Marauder, followed by 2 other Marauders, followed by 2 possessed Barons, like in Horde mode. You can do it, but it really takes persistence and it will show who really likes the game. Anyway, nobody is telling you to play the DLCs on nightmare. You can play them on ultra-violence first to get used to them.

I was literally thinking this. And I haven't even hit 100 hours yet in eternal. I had 2016 sitting in my library for years, finally tried it, went through it, then played through eternal and it's dlcs... And the Horde mode in eternal is much, much more difficult in the later stages compared to the rest of the game(s). It becomes more of a war of attrition until you figure out how to deal with super spongy and buffed enemies back to back. I also have only played Ultra Violence difficulty, considering I come from the perspective of still enjoying Doom 1/2 mods to this day thanks to how fast paced and brutal some can be. That being said, playing through 2016 and eternal were challenging my first times through. Now that I've got a grasp on the fundamentals and can prioritize targets better, the rest of the game is a cakewalk.

It really does just boil down to utilizing all the tools at your disposal. Hell, I'm not claiming I do, because I don't. But like many have stated elsewhere, there's not just 1 way to play in eternal. Fast weapon switching and other tricks are most certainly not necessary. I never even knew about some of those mechanics until I beat both games and finally looked into advanced mechanics.

It's different for everyone, and I do somewhat recall having a little difficulty going through TAG1 (because I hadn't figured out as many nuances/tricks, and it was on UV my first time). But considering the lack of deep story and lore the Doomverse has gone without, I was content and engaged wanting to know the next part of the story, and it's what kept me pushing through some of those punishing areas my first time through. Looking back now, some of those encounters are still lethal if you don't stay mobile enough, but still nowhere near as tough as horde mode on UV.

[Balder]

I just played TAG1 some more, and did several more battle arenas fairly easy. Maybe I overstated the difficulty a bit. I dunno, I definitely prefer the base game over the DLCs (so far), but either way Doom Eternal is work of art.

This is all basically nitpicking anyways, considering the brilliant game DE is.

[D.T.]

Originally posted by Balder:

I just played TAG1 some more, and did several more battle arenas fairly easy. Maybe I overstated the difficulty a bit. I dunno, I definitely prefer the base game over the DLCs (so far), but either way Doom Eternal is work of art.

This is all basically nitpicking anyways, considering the brilliant game DE is.

Sounds like it's starting to come together and click more for you! That's awesome! I tried starting the game over for a second playthrough, and have honestly been quite bored going through the first few levels again due to how much slower paced it is compared to finishing TAG2 and then going through horde mode at least once. Both DLC's add more on top of the existing equation, so learning monster patterns becomes even more important, along with prioritization, because some of those new additions will ruin a run really fast if they are not dealt with accordingly. The biggest piece of advice I can give, is to STAY MOBILE! If you are bolting around constantly, nothing can catch or hit you. Use this to your advantage and make use of resources from the infinite spawn of trash demons to refill health/armor/ammo, then get back into the thick of it with the flame belch, grenades, blood punches and glory kills to keep the blood punches stocked. I didn't realize just how powerful the blood punch was until I encountered the cyber mancubus.

Rip and Tear until it's done!

[Balder]

Originally posted by D.T.:

Originally posted by Balder:

I just played TAG1 some more, and did several more battle arenas fairly easy. Maybe I overstated the difficulty a bit. I dunno, I definitely prefer the base game over the DLCs (so far), but either way Doom Eternal is work of art.

This is all basically nitpicking anyways, considering the brilliant game DE is.

Sounds like it's starting to come together and click more for you! That's awesome! I tried starting the game over for a second playthrough, and have honestly been quite bored going through the first few levels again due to how much slower paced it is compared to finishing TAG2 and then going through horde mode at least once. Both DLC's add more on top of the existing equation, so learning monster patterns becomes even more important, along with prioritization, because some of those new additions will ruin a run really fast if they are not dealt with accordingly. The biggest piece of advice I can give, is to STAY MOBILE! If you are bolting around constantly, nothing can catch or hit you. Use this to your advantage and make use of resources from the infinite spawn of trash demons to refill health/armor/ammo, then get back into the thick of it with the flame belch, grenades, blood punches and glory kills to keep the blood punches stocked. I didn't realize just how powerful the blood punch was until I encountered the cyber mancubus.

Rip and Tear until it's done!

Yes, I've been sleeping on the blood punch for the bigger demons, and using the meat hook more for quick aerial movement. Thanks for the advice, I'm definitely improving!

The first few levels are on the easier side for sure, even on Nightmare. Except for the first slayer gate, were I was thrown off by the lack of upgrades. There's definitely an increase in difficulty in Taras Nabad, though.

I played Doom Eternal when it first came out, but being more of a leisure gamer I didn't learn the game mechanics properly, and kinda forced my way through the more difficult spots, then uninstalled it.

I only started using the more advanced techniques recently. Half the fun for me now is doing everything at NIghtmare, and fully learning the game mechanics.

Back to playing Doom Eternal again! :)

[Joker]

no, no i do not. DLC part 1 has some of the worst levels and gameplay in the entire game. the UAC Whater Plant level is the only good level in part 1. blood swamps is most likely the worst level in the entire game. The Holt is only slightly less bad. horrible encounters, terrible fights, terrible level design. dont get me wrong, the art direction is amazing, as always. the OST by Andrew and Levy is in my opinion on par with Gordon's work. but the gameplay and the way the levels play, good god it is atrocious.

not only are the undodgable environmental hazards annoying and unfair, their being placed everywhere on the blood swamps is exactly the cause of this issue. the fact they cant be used to fight the demons also doesnt help at all. it wouldnt have fixed them, it wouldnt be a silver lining, but it'd at least have been something.

the fog doesnt make fights more difficult, it only makes them take more time. it also only pushes the player to cheese fights, and cheese should be understood as skill-less strategies that easily take care of situations. the increased difficulty was supposed to push the player to become even better, but the fog doesnt accomplish this at all; it only manages to have the opposite effect. limiting my vision is not a fun modifier, it is a handicap--and not a fun one because you may as well just poke my eyes out at point. i dont need to play better to overcome this environmental modifier, i just need to be more careful with where i go. and to find the laziest cheese strategy to get out of the fight.

and the spirits, don't get me started. i've made countless posts about how much i hate them. i'll keep it short: bullet spongifying normal enemies do not make them harder to beat, it only makes the fight last longer. a fight lasting longer does not make it difficult; you wont need to aim better or move better or strategize more efficiently. you simply need to hold down W and M1 for longer until said demon dies. there're several layers and perspectives to explore the spirit buff, such as through the lore, but that's a different discussion for another thread.

DLC part 2 is several thousand miles better than part 1.