What exactly is this Argenta thing???

[homosex K19191]

Are they human?
I don't know, the Codex of The Icon of Sin says the Betrayer's son was resurrected but "not as human".
So the Argenta is another *human race* originated from another planet far away from Earth?

[Vesperas]

I considered that but it raises so many questions (and more inconsistencies). In the lore entry it states that its mere presence warps reality until the area around it is pulled into hell. Supposedly, this is how Argent D'Nur was absorbed into hell.

I'm not exactly sure how it was subdued and transported to Urdak, nor am I sure when or why exactly. It's explained it was given armor to better control it but seems to imply it was only moved there immediately after you killed the final hell priest and only done as a last resort. I don't recall if this is explained in-game at all.

An except from the lore book from the Eternal CE insinuates hell expected this outcome and states this:

"Thus the hand of fate was dealt, and the Great Ones obliterated the blasphemous land of Argent D'Nur. They came in number, the giants of extermination; the Leviathan, the Gargaska, and the Supentor. At their head strode the Icon of Sin. He that supped the heart-blood of the Betrayer's Son, Champion of Champions, the Architect of Slaughter.

He cast dread upon the heretics and the cowards fled before him as mewling whelps. In his presence they felt the betrayal of their own kind, and witnessed the delusion of their righteous nature exposed. And as the Father wept, the son feasted on the flesh of his kin.

He shall tread upon the souls of the enemy, the greatest of the horde, the blood-drinker, for he is the eater of worlds. His name is malice, and his hunger shall never be sated. He comes with insidious nature, for they will seek to control the Icon, and in their rotten desire they shall bring upon themselves horror wrought by the mighty hand of Sin. Let them call, let the wretches beg for his presence, and then in his aftermath we shall gorge on the greed of their hope."

[Peelsepuuppi]

Publicado originalmente por Vesperas:

Publicado originalmente por Longshoreman X:

Doom 3 and Quake are not even canon to this story, and a lot of this seems to come from you not even really paying attention

You're clearly the one not paying attention. Doom 3 explains how the argent fracture came to be (it is a closed hell portal) and serves as the introduction of the codex tablets. One of the tablets portrayed and spoken about in Doom 3 is even referenced in Doom 2016 under the Doom Marine's artifact entry. The player in Doom 3 is a different marine.

Doom 2016 features runes and the elemental wraiths are a direct reference to Quake. In Eternal, Hebeth is a direct reference to Quake, even loosely depicting the main bridge feature of the "city of the damned." Hayden further states you need to use the slipgate there (another, explicit reference to Quake) to access Sentinel Prime which is where the Arena Eternal supposedly is, which is a direct reference to the entire plot and setting of Quake III.

Doom 3 connections are not necessarily anything but easter eggs. any canonicity of Doom 3 and Quake is just your speculation with flimsy evidence.

The only clear connection to previous doom games is the link to Doom 64.

[Vesperas]

Publicado originalmente por Vathek1:

The UAC's interest in the hell dimension in that game was only due to its teleportation experiments and noticing the time lapse for what should have been an instantaneous process--again similar to the backstory of the OG Doom in which the UAC's main research was teleportation, not energy harvesting.

If you're going to cherry-pick your points, while also ignoring the obvious reference(s), and declare it as factual (it's not), maybe you should also attempt to rationalize the many other points as well, such as the ones that directly contradict Doom 2016?

The Arena Eternal was created by the Vadrigar and it was the Vadrigar which summoned the warriors there, not the dimension. My point was precisely that... Sentinel Prime was introduced for Doom Eternal and it is a retcon of Quake III (which initially introduced the Arena Eternal).

Yes, the UAC's interest in Doom 3 was teleportation. They discovered how to build the teleportation devices following their discovery of an ancient, martian civilization lost to time buried deep on Mars. It was the UAC's interest in Doom, which is where the games and origin story of the Doom Marine began. So, I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that the Doom Marine isn't the Doom Marine from the original games?

The ability for the Doom Marine to exist prior to Doom 3 and following Doom 3 is explained by Doom 3 as well. It states that time has no apparent meaning in hell, which is where the Doom Marine was per Doom 64, and as such, he's likely hundreds, if not thousands of years old.

Doom Eternal both references and contradicts several different id Software games, including the game it is supposedly meant to be a direct sequel to, Doom 2016. Why anyone would even attempt to defend such garbage, I have no idea.

Publicado originalmente por ToveriJuri:

The only clear connection to previous doom games is the link to Doom 64.

I've been saying that since 2016. I'm glad everyone is just starting to catch up.

[Darkronous the Supreme Senpai]

also they have a longer life span, the betrayer is over 1000 years old, they are clearly humanoid but they huge lifespans

[Kit Kat]

Publicado originalmente por Vesperas:

I've been saying that since 2016. I'm glad everyone is just starting to catch up.

No, before that. I remember you saying the new one would be with the original dude. You also said it'll probably have Quake stuff because people wanted a Quake 1 remake but it would be added slowly over a couple games/expansions and be tied together with Q3 Arena.

All pretty spot on so far. And weird. Scary even. Almost. :-)

[Darkronous the Supreme Senpai]

Doom eternal really does suffer from over explaining.... yet not explaining enough

[Vesperas]

Publicado originalmente por Vathek1:

...but there is no mention of "argent energy" or anything remotely similar in Doom 3. The UAC's interest in the hell dimension in that game was only due to its teleportation experiments and noticing the time lapse for what should have been an instantaneous process--again similar to the backstory of the OG Doom in which the UAC's main research was teleportation, not energy harvesting.

Hell energy is extensively referenced in Doom 3. There are entries regarding the UAC's experiments on the demons (which they captured--clearly implying it goes deeper than just the teleportation aspect) regarding how they're able to manifest and use hell/plasma energy.

It also references the hell energy coming out of the portal like a shockwave and transforming most of the personnel into possessed, precisely in the same manner as the Lazarus Wave ("hell wave") Olivia Pierce unleashed in Doom 2016.

The artifact from RoE has multiple entries regarding how it is powered by absorbing and converting souls into hell energy, providing the user with incredible powers. Conversely, the soul cube references how it is able to directly use hell energy to power itself by killing demons, as well as how it was created by a race of highly advanced proto-humans whom were apparently all wiped out minus a few survivors which managed to teleport to Earth and are considered the base ancestors from which humanity came to be.

I'm also not sure if you noticed but teleportation is actually in Doom 2016 and Eternal. It's actually kind of used constantly--as in, dozens of times in many levels. The UAC has clearly mastered and uses it extensively by the time Doom 2016 takes place.

Basically everything in Doom 2016 was lifted from Doom 3. If you follow the games sequentially, it is all plausible and makes sense. Eternal doesn't even properly follow Doom 2016, so the problem is clearly Eternal, not everything else.

Publicado originalmente por Kit Kat:

No, before that.

I assumed I'd have to reference myself declaring as much but all I could locate were some posts from about a year ago. I'm glad you remembered that however.

I'm not sure why but I had a strong feeling they were going to go the route that they did. I guess it was because they're under Bethesda/Zenimax now, and seeing as all but one original member of id Software has since quit involved with the original Doom games, I assumed it was just a matter of time before it went into the toilet. They have no problem breaking pre-established lore or timelines in their own games (such as in Fallout or the Elder Scrolls) and when it reaches a point where it no longer continues to make sense, just pull the "magic-man-done-it" card with some time paradox/alternate dimension loophole nonsense that makes it nearly impossible for me to even give a sh!t about it.

I suppose I just didn't expect it to crap all over itself so quickly following Doom 2016, while also largely losing Doom's identity and atmosphere. Eternal feels more like a theme park. You can just go wherever you want, the demons are generally "just in the way" of performing whatever fetch quest task you're given, you're climbing around like a monkey and then you go back to the bat cave to "put it all together" and stop the Joker.

It's also lacking when it comes to building tension or atmosphere. There is no mystery nor are there any "fear of the unknown" elements. You never feel like you're descending into some stygian depth, forbidden realm or place of no return. It does nothing to build a feeling of tension, dread or impending doom. It's mostly just monkey bars and running around in a circle spreading the word of My Little Pony while listening to dubstep.

That's just my opinion though. What do I know?