The actual flaws of the game

[Kyoki]

Hey all, throughout the last few months on this board i've seen plenty of bad takes about the game, and was wondering - can we get some proper critique of the game? And maybe talk about some actual points of criticism? Do you have any?

For me those would be:
Some long standing bugs - like achievements being bugged, the map music bug, ect.
The crowd control - with some enemy attacks feeling a bit unfair in the way they can stunlock you sometimes.
The ground attacks sometimes flying in the air.
The inability to save in master levels (i know it is a technical issue - but let's be honest it would be nice to be able to save there).
The underwhelming bosses: Trial of Maligog and Davoth mostly.
Riot soldiers and Stone imps being a bit meh.
Certain mechanics being tied to your framerate - like certain attacks.
Some Quality of life things not being included - like a switch for meniu music, or certain effects in the game not having a "turn off" setting, and the intro screen when you start a new campaign.
The way Unmakyr is balanced.
Marauder AI sometimes breaking a bit when he is possessed or buffed.

Do you have any other gripes with the game? Do you disagree with some of my takes?

Cuz overall... i really only see these issues so far. With Doom Eternal still standing as one of the greatest FPS games of the last 15 years personally. And definitely in my Top 3 games of all time (The other two being Silent Hill 2 and Borderlands 2 personally).

[Žviks]

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

I'm guessing you haven't played Doom 2016 and I suggest you don't if you think Eternal's Imps are powerful.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I play on nightmare (working towards a UN run) and I go back and forth between hating and loving the game several times each day. The inconsistencies (and there are a LOT of them) are what gets me. I don't mind dying. I don't mind a tough challenge but when the game doesn't work as it was supposedly designed too, that's a bridge too far for me.

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

Oh boy don't try to complete Doom 2016's UN. I probably had around 20-30 attempts before getting it. around 80-90% of these weren't battle deaths but glitch related.

And the Imps were actual snipers. Here if you keep moving they're not nearly as good as targetting you, in 2016, you had to change directions all the time and use cover. Imps were a nightmare up until around half of the campaign (where you got powerful enough that they weren't as much of an annoyance).

[w0rM.9™]

Escrito originalmente por Lord Cacodemon:

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

I'm guessing you haven't played Doom 2016 and I suggest you don't if you think Eternal's Imps are powerful.

I have played 2016 and I didn't say powerful. I said annoying.

[w0rM.9™]

Escrito originalmente por DevilBlackDoom:

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I play on nightmare (working towards a UN run) and I go back and forth between hating and loving the game several times each day. The inconsistencies (and there are a LOT of them) are what gets me. I don't mind dying. I don't mind a tough challenge but when the game doesn't work as it was supposedly designed too, that's a bridge too far for me.

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

Oh boy don't try to complete Doom 2016's UN. I probably had around 20-30 attempts before getting it. around 80-90% of these weren't battle deaths but glitch related.

And the Imps were actual snipers. Here if you keep moving they're not nearly as good as targeting you, in 2016, you had to change directions all the time and use cover. Imps were a nightmare up until around half of the campaign (where you got powerful enough that they weren't as much of an annoyance).

I don't disagree with you. I was merely commenting on one of Eternal's shortcomings that I find particularly annoying. I'd rather get killed a hundred times by a marauder than once by an imp.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

Escrito originalmente por DevilBlackDoom:

Oh boy don't try to complete Doom 2016's UN. I probably had around 20-30 attempts before getting it. around 80-90% of these weren't battle deaths but glitch related.

And the Imps were actual snipers. Here if you keep moving they're not nearly as good as targeting you, in 2016, you had to change directions all the time and use cover. Imps were a nightmare up until around half of the campaign (where you got powerful enough that they weren't as much of an annoyance).

I don't disagree with you. I was merely commenting on one of Eternal's shortcomings that I find particularly annoying. I'd rather get killed a hundred times by a marauder than once by an imp.

Personally I don't mind Eternal's UN. Mostly because the turning point is WAY earlier than in 2016. In 2016 the true turning point was around halfway/two-thirds of the game. That made it super frustrating to almost get to the turning point and not reach that power peak that can get you through most of the rest of the game. The main turning point is getting the Siphon grenade as it's your main tool to recover health and shield in 2016, no Flame Belch and Glory Killing over 50 health only gave 5 health (Eternal thankfully changed that to I believe 10 or 15). In Eternal I feel like the turning point is Doom Hunter Base. Once you pass that level you pass the hardest hitting wall. There's still a bit of a way to go but overall the levels after that up to Super Gore Nest feel like they're letting you off with a bit more. Then around the end of SGN you reach near peak power (well not 100% peak but good enough that you don't feel all that limited anymore) which makes the rest of the game as long as you've trained your bosses reflex enough.

This is completely personal but overall, I feel like Eternal's UN is pretty fair, whereas 2016 just isn't. The Imp are actually fairly easy to deal with and do much less damage than in 2016. If you handle most situations properly then you should be able to take an Imp's blow (whereas in 2016 you can barely ever allow it to happen up until Mission 6).

Again overall that's just my personal experience ;)

[UnKn0wN]

I also find eternal easier and less stressful than D16 on UN, in D16 you don´t have all the win buttons (crucible, bloodpunch, hammer, ice nades..) you just have the BFG later and a few more power ups scattered around the maps that you better pick up very wisely if you want to succeed, you also don´t have a plethora of dumb zombies that barely are a threat that you can abuse to gain resources and armor/health back all the time…
once you mastered eternal gameloop and movements tricks there are x escape and win buttons that in D16 simply aren´t there.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Escrito originalmente por UnKn0wN:

I also find eternal easier and less stressful than D16 on UN, in D16 you don´t have all the win buttons (crucible, bloodpunch, hammer, ice nades..) you just have the BFG later and a few more power ups scattered around the maps that you better pick up very wisely if you want to succeed, you also don´t have a plethora of dumb zombies that barely are a threat that you can abuse to gain resources and armor/health back all the time…
once you mastered eternal gameloop and movements tricks there are x escape and win buttons that in D16 simply aren´t there.

To be fair, the demons are also much more of a danger, and there's a lot of opportunities to get cornered real quick, even with the win buttons. Actually the BFG doesn't have that many ammo and you should really use those wisely. Same for the Crucible. And the Ice Grenade can only help you so much against Super Heavies (well upgraded it's a little better).

One of Doom 2016's biggest issues is the instadeaths. Being crushed, falling to your death, falling to an inescapable damage zone and so on. There's just so many ways to get screwed out of combat. But once you're all souped up I'd argue it actually gets easier than Eternal. The bosses need just as much effort though. But the enemies ? Once you can abuse Rich gets Richer with the equipment-enhancing rune and Siphon Grenade you're set for an insane amount of damage. The biggest threat past Mission 8 was definitely the Hell Guards. Cyberdemon Phase 2 can be a pain if you drop your attention for even a second but is overall still fairly easy.

Again, personally, the main difference (at least for my own playthroughs) was the turning point/power peak. The fact it takes so long to reach it in 2016, all the while ramping up the difficulty JUST a little bit past what your equipment allows until said power peak can really mess you up if you don't have a couple of planned strategies for it.

[bullerbuller7]

UN on 2016 was only tough for the first few levels.

[w0rM.9™]

I'm starting to doubt I'll ever be good enough for a UN run. I'm on my second nightmare run and I die SO much. I'd say I'm still dying 30 to 50 times every game. I just suck at DE.

In my defense, I'm almost 56 years old so my reflexes aren't what they used to be.

[spearten.com]

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I play on nightmare (working towards a UN run) and I go back and forth between hating and loving the game several times each day. The inconsistencies (and there are a LOT of them) are what gets me. I don't mind dying. I don't mind a tough challenge but when the game doesn't work as it was supposedly designed too, that's a bridge too far for me.

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

Problem with the fodder system is how inconsistent it can be. For example, in the Campaign all fodder dies when all heavies/super heavies are killed in the arena. This is not the case in TAG 1 or TAG 2. Imps are weak after you get more gear, but are awful on levels 1-2.

Additionally, I mentioned in response to this post of the annoyance of low resources early game, especially when trying to beat UN. I think the overall game would be a lot more enjoyable for quite literally everybody if those were already the max values and the first few levels could be upped in intensity with fodder and maybe another heavy or two here and there.

[spearten.com]

Escrito originalmente por bullerbuller7:

UN on 2016 was only tough for the first few levels.

Never beat it because a Baron knocked me off the edge on Necropolis and I died because falls kill in that game. So glad that's not the case here unless you got super low health.

[spearten.com]

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I'm starting to doubt I'll ever be good enough for a UN run. I'm on my second nightmare run and I die SO much. I'd say I'm still dying 30 to 50 times every game. I just suck at DE.

In my defense, I'm almost 56 years old so my reflexes aren't what they used to be.

Tools like the Flame Belch, Ice Grenades, Chaingun Shield and explosives can help a lot with that. If you don't wanna quick switch, mobile turret, micro missiles, lock on rockets, and a super shotgun blast or Ballista here and there helps. Exploiting the weaknesses of enemies like using the Arablest on flying enemies or using mobile turret on Knights/Barons will help a lot. Details in the codex which I'm sure you've seen. They also make for a fun read.

[w0rM.9™]

Escrito originalmente por Ryan, Acquirer of Toes:

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I play on nightmare (working towards a UN run) and I go back and forth between hating and loving the game several times each day. The inconsistencies (and there are a LOT of them) are what gets me. I don't mind dying. I don't mind a tough challenge but when the game doesn't work as it was supposedly designed too, that's a bridge too far for me.

Side note: While it's not a bug or even a design issue, in nightmare, the Imps are the most annoying thing in the game to me. They spawn endlessly so you can't clear them out and they very aggressively and accurately attack you while you're engaged with heavies.

I get it. That's part of the challenge but when you take out all the heavies in an area in a very difficult battle only to turnaround to get hit and killed by an Imp who just spawned in, that's enough to send me over the edge.

IMO, the game would feel more fair if only zombies spawned in as fodder. I think you should be able to clear everything else out rather than have them endlessly spawning in.

Problem with the fodder system is how inconsistent it can be. For example, in the Campaign all fodder dies when all heavies/super heavies are killed in the arena. This is not the case in TAG 1 or TAG 2. Imps are weak after you get more gear, but are awful on levels 1-2.

Additionally, I mentioned in response to this post of the annoyance of low resources early game, especially when trying to beat UN. I think the overall game would be a lot more enjoyable for quite literally everybody if those were already the max values and the first few levels could be upped in intensity with fodder and maybe another heavy or two here and there.

1000% agree with this!

[w0rM.9™]

Escrito originalmente por Ryan, Acquirer of Toes:

Escrito originalmente por w0rM.9™:

I'm starting to doubt I'll ever be good enough for a UN run. I'm on my second nightmare run and I die SO much. I'd say I'm still dying 30 to 50 times every game. I just suck at DE.

In my defense, I'm almost 56 years old so my reflexes aren't what they used to be.

Tools like the Flame Belch, Ice Grenades, Chaingun Shield and explosives can help a lot with that. If you don't wanna quick switch, mobile turret, micro missiles, lock on rockets, and a super shotgun blast or Ballista here and there helps. Exploiting the weaknesses of enemies like using the Arablest on flying enemies or using mobile turret on Knights/Barons will help a lot. Details in the codex which I'm sure you've seen. They also make for a fun read.

Yep, I do all of this. Still working on my quick switch skills but I'm pretty good with SS and Ballista. Lock on rockets are my goto for archvilles and larger heavies. Much appreciate the post. All of what you wrote is 100% spot on.

[SuperFly]

Escrito originalmente por UnKn0wN:

I also find eternal easier and less stressful than D16 on UN, in D16 you don´t have all the win buttons (crucible, bloodpunch, hammer, ice nades..) you just have the BFG later and a few more power ups scattered around the maps that you better pick up very wisely if you want to succeed, you also don´t have a plethora of dumb zombies that barely are a threat that you can abuse to gain resources and armor/health back all the time…
once you mastered eternal gameloop and movements tricks there are x escape and win buttons that in D16 simply aren´t there.

D16 relies on fire & maneuver, as a DOOM game should always do.
That's much more difficult than D:E's invincibility-timer cooldown tactics.