Doom Eternal - Good Game, Bad Doom?

[DM Science]

I'm an old school gamer. Was around to play original Doom (and Wolfenstein before that). I generally try to be positive and try to separate my personal feelings about games, movies, music, etc from the work in and of itself.

I tried Doom Eternal for the second time recently. Doom 2016 was the most fun I had in a long time on a computer game with high intensity. I like most types of games. I started on Atari and Pong, so can appreciate the bounty of modern gaming. I usually enjoy depth and story, but occasionally, I want a game that I can jump and tear stuff up at 100 mph without thinking too much. It's like music. Sometimes I want Pink Floyd, with its complex arrangements and layered lyrics giving me pause to reflect on the human condition. Other times, I want Ministry- can't understand most of the lyrics, but it makes me feel like moving fast and breaking stuff.

Now imagine you were feeling aggressive. Had a long week and you don't want to think about anything, just let off some steam. You pick up a newly released Ministry album, only to find they have branched off from industrial speed metal to a slower, more clean sound. The vocals are clearer and they are taking distortion out of the guitar.
It may be brilliant and beautiful- a work of musical art. But you're still angry. Why? You bought a Ministry album, you expect Ministry. If they wanted to experiment under a different name, you would be fine. But don't say it's Ministry, if it's mellow.

This is the problem with Doom Eternal, and why I have multiple completions of Doom 2016 and have given up on Doom Eternal twice now when I realized I wasn't having fun.

Doom Eternal is a polished, well-thought-out, creative, and visually gorgeous video game. So why the complaint? It doesn't feel like DOOM. It's complicated. The problem is that I think developers sometimes confuse complexity with creativity. You see, the enemies require more planning and precision to kill. You need to use the right weapons and hit the right weak points. The weapon mods and runes and points and whatever else they throw in, requires planning and customization, secrets abound that you are encouraged to look for, and finally there is the challenging platforming aspect- always fun in a FPS. (They only managed to get climbing ladders in FPS a less monitor-smashing exercise a few years ago). While they emphasize "keep moving" to keep the action looking frenetic, the reality is that my mind is constantly engaged in trying to keep track if I need health, so I need to hit E and glory kill, or do I need ammo, so I hit c to chainsaw, or armor so I got to hit r for my flamer, then kill the enemy, but which weapon do I have, which mod is set on it, what enemies are here, what are their weaknesses, does it match my weapon mod, and where do I need to go on this map, can't stop to look what's over the edge because KEEP MOVING, and so on... My mind is definitely engaged- Which is what is WRONG!

As I described above, when I sit down and decide to play Doom, it is because I am in a certain "mood"- a DOOMMOOD if you will. The DOOMMOOD hits when I'm stressed, been doing lots of problem solving, bummed out, etc... I play Doom because I want to kill stuff fast. So when I sat down to play Doom Eternal, that's what I wanted to do. I was just on stage 2, Exultia when I realized I had not really fought that much. But I had spent hours trying to execute dashes and jumps to hard to reach secrets and dying in that stupid ********* lava. It wasn't scratching my Doom itch. And because I was already in a DOOMMOOD, this changed to anger and made me begin to resent and hate the game.

As I reflect now, I think if I had bought a game called The Sentinels, that was described as a challenging platformer, with a story spanning divine and infernal realms, a mysterious hub where you can refine your tools and techniques, and enemies that you dominate by precision application of force combined with knowledge of their weakness, and then played this, I would give it an A+. I would have been in a Portal type mood, or maybe an Ori type mood. But it was called Doom. So I was disappointed. And while I may try to reframe the game in my brain as "The Sentinels" and play it again in another mood, my conclusion will stand that this is a really good Game, but a really disappointing DOOM.

[Wiesshund]

引用自 BubonicDuck：

He's got no data to back up any of this but man sure is insistent that his personal opinion is an infallible truth, even when he contradicts himself.

Yes but

It is so entertaining.
And he preforms upon command.
If you pull the strings right, he will dance for you.

[Jordan_Peterson]

引用自 Wiesshund：

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

You are not far from the truth.

You are both very far from the truth, except for inside your own minds.

if you say so! ;)

引用自 Ace：

引用自 SuperFly：

There is little factual information in any of what was said.
Citing all the fallacies would make for a lengthy list.

Big figures make for big failures once a reader applies a little critical thought to the data.
Big discrepancies in acceptance & engagement can't be hidden by parading pocketed gains.

D:E didn't perform for its pedigree, or its population.

100% Factually incorrect.

only 2 letters are wrong in that response.

引用自 Erwin_Von_Braun：

So, in keeping with the OP, this game does have it's merits - some parts could even be good, given the appropriate visual presentation ofc, but it very much IS bad DOOM.

Well, it is obvious they contradict themself all the time and it is clear that no matter how many charts they fabricate to suit their narrative, sales, or ratings do not stand for if a game has good game design or not or fails to stay true to the IP.

[Ace]

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

only 2 letters are wrong in that response.

Nope.

Stop trolling & play the game.

[BubonicDuck]

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

Well, it is obvious they contradict themself all the time and it is clear that no matter how many charts they fabricate to suit their narrative...

"Fabricate", you don't know what that word means, do you?

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

...sales, or ratings do not stand for if a game has good game design or not or fails to stay true to the IP.

And what does? Oh, your personal opinion. Right.

[cheetah-navara]

And what is the final verdict of this thread ? The same one as all the other threads of this kind, those that came before it and those that are yet to come. If you don´t like this game suffer in silence, but don´t open a thread on the steam forum. Cause god forbid you voice your opinion. The usual "white knights" will appear and "argue" you to death.

So please, to anyone who made it this far. Don´t start threads like this., you will only waste your time and energy.

[Grampire]

引用自 cheetah-navara：

And what is the final verdict of this thread ? The same one as all the other threads of this kind, those that came before it and those that are yet to come. If you don´t like this game suffer in silence, but don´t open a thread on the steam forum. Cause god forbid you voice your opinion. The usual "white knights" will appear and "argue" you to death.

So please, to anyone who made it this far. Don´t start threads like this., you will only waste your time and energy.

Wait... did you think this thread would have a "final verdict?"

Did you think anyone would ever "solve" why Doom Eternal is good or bad, much less define some nebulous concept of what "Doom is?"

Do you expect that anyone who doesn't like this game would have their prayers answered and their conviction reinforced by coming to this forum with their biased and probably emotional perspective?

No. Of course you didn't.

Standing on your tip-toes doesn't put you on the high-ground. Nor does pretending this thread or most like it expose anything wrong/good about the game.

So welcome to the club.

[cheetah-navara]

引用自 Grampire：

引用自 cheetah-navara：

And what is the final verdict of this thread ? The same one as all the other threads of this kind, those that came before it and those that are yet to come. If you don´t like this game suffer in silence, but don´t open a thread on the steam forum. Cause god forbid you voice your opinion. The usual "white knights" will appear and "argue" you to death.

So please, to anyone who made it this far. Don´t start threads like this., you will only waste your time and energy.

Wait... did you think this thread would have a "final verdict?"

Did you think anyone would ever "solve" why Doom Eternal is good or bad, much less define some nebulous concept of what "Doom is?"

Do you expect that anyone who doesn't like this game would have their prayers answered and their conviction reinforced by coming to this forum with their biased and probably emotional perspective?

No. Of course you didn't.

Standing on your tip-toes doesn't put you on the high-ground. Nor does pretending this thread or most like it expose anything wrong/good about the game.

So welcome to the club.

"Thanks" for the welcome i guess.

You are right about one thing : "No. Of course you didn't."

And just to put things into perspectiove, i do not expect anything from the steam forums, let alone a definition of a concept on how one person percieves a certain video game series.

"Standing on your tip-toes doesn't put you on the high-ground. Nor does pretending this thread or most like it expose anything wrong/good about the game."
All i can say is start practicing what you a preaching, cause you seem to be the one who always act like you ahve the moral high ground.

I only reason i posted in this thread is the fact that i am fed up with threads like this blowing up and ending on the discussion front paige, instead of helpful ones.

We all should know by now, that is game is splitting the community, just as every other new doom game or as you put it on the first paige:
"Here's the real truth - clearly we don't deserve a new Doom. It's an IP that should have died in the 90's"

So why not ignore opinion threads like this and let them die in peace. Just play the game and have fun, i have the OP have not, so what.

[Wiesshund]

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

if you say so! ;)

I do not recall mentioning the Sun at all?

[BubonicDuck]

引用自 cheetah-navara：

The usual "white knights" will appear and "argue" you to death.

Tag them, coward.

[Jordan_Peterson]

引用自 cheetah-navara：

And what is the final verdict of this thread ? The same one as all the other threads of this kind, those that came before it and those that are yet to come. If you don´t like this game suffer in silence, but don´t open a thread on the steam forum. Cause god forbid you voice your opinion. The usual "white knights" will appear and "argue" you to death.

So please, to anyone who made it this far. Don´t start threads like this., you will only waste your time and energy.

I already posted the verdict here:

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

In essence, we're not just debating here; we're essentially holding a masterclass for the next wave of Kotaku staff. Or, to put it more humorously, consider this the boot camp for those destined to become ex-Kotaku writers soon!

The game has already been reviewed as a bad Doom game but maybe a good game, many times. Only the hardcore fans have a problem with that and go crazy if you point out their flawed and biased arguments and debunk them. Then they either say you are bad at the game or you have not palyed it, even knowing your playtime is way above the average.
So yeah, we are maybe training them to become the next best game journalist. I dont know.
DE is for sure splitting the gaming community and lost many fans due to their very bad game design choices.
The rest is just upset fans who attack anyone who dares to disagree with them, cause they can not debunk logical arguments.

[Grampire]

引用自 cheetah-navara：

"Standing on your tip-toes doesn't put you on the high-ground. Nor does pretending this thread or most like it expose anything wrong/good about the game."
All i can say is start practicing what you a preaching, cause you seem to be the one who always act like you ahve the moral high ground.

I don't expect you to have read every post I've ever made on this forum.

But trust me when I say I've been the bad guy plenty of times around here and I'm not afraid to admit that. Just recently I was an ass to another poster - Motivated - for his otherwise relatively rational post.

But - people who post actual nonsense like this:

I only reason i posted in this thread is the fact that i am fed up with threads like this blowing up and ending on the discussion front paige, instead of helpful ones.

We all should know by now, that is game is splitting the community, just as every other new doom game or as you put it on the first paige:
"Here's the real truth - clearly we don't deserve a new Doom. It's an IP that should have died in the 90's"

The notion that Doom Eternal is "splitting the community" is a fantastically loaded comment that presumes someone agrees with several perceived conditions and definitions as a given - and that the "community" wasn't already divided. It assumes the community shouldn't be split. It inherently invites conflict and is feeding the same unhelpful discourse you're purporting to be against.

So no - I'd rather be branded by some reductionist forum champion as a "white-knight" and quarrel a bit with revisionist gatekeepers that can't take off their rose-tinted glasses.

I'd rather remind these people that I have been the audience since the 90's just like them, to make them face the fact that they don't like this game because of their own choice, and any insane, twisting excuses they give as to why the game is a failure or bad or "not Doom" are in fact exactly their own.

And I want id- on the nonexistent chance that this feedback reaches them - to continue dividing the community in a way that nets them record sales and cuts these contrartian boat-anchors off. And to not be afraid of continuing to iterate on IPs in their catalog.

[BubonicDuck]

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

The rest is just upset fans who attack anyone who dares to disagree with them, cause they can not debunk logical arguments.

You're the one who is upset here. Your entire argument is based on your feelings and not factual data.

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

DE is for sure splitting the gaming community and lost many fans due to their very bad game design choices.

31k people played Doom 2016. 27k people COMPLETED Doom Eternal.
(Using SteamCarts: SteamCount puts these figures at; 44k and 34k respectively.)
Doom Eternal had 2x as many players than Doom 2016 ever had.
All current player counts have Doom Eternal as having at least 2x as many players.
This is a increase in 'fans', not a loss.

It's very evident the game was a both a huge financial success, and one of ID Software most popular games, in terms of player counts, and enjoyed, based on reviews.

引用自 Jordan Peterson：

The game has already been reviewed as a bad Doom game but maybe a good game, many times.

It's been reviewed as a great game significantly more frequently.
It would appear these negative reviews are outliers.
Statistics are not your forte.

[SuperFly]

引用自 cheetah-navara：

And what is the final verdict of this thread ?

It's a niche game, and a poor DOOM entry.
That new paradigm for a "combat loop" doesn't gel with the brand they stamped on it.

[BubonicDuck]

引用自 SuperFly：

引用自 cheetah-navara：

And what is the final verdict of this thread ?

It's a niche game, and a poor DOOM entry.
That new paradigm for a "combat loop" doesn't gel with the brand they stamped on it.

What do you think, 'niche', means? lol

[SuperFly]

It's only attractive to a very specific subset of players, and not in keeping with the attractiveness & draw of its brand namesake. Happy to clarify that for you, bud.