Doom Eternal - Good Game, Bad Doom?

[DM Science]

I'm an old school gamer. Was around to play original Doom (and Wolfenstein before that). I generally try to be positive and try to separate my personal feelings about games, movies, music, etc from the work in and of itself.

I tried Doom Eternal for the second time recently. Doom 2016 was the most fun I had in a long time on a computer game with high intensity. I like most types of games. I started on Atari and Pong, so can appreciate the bounty of modern gaming. I usually enjoy depth and story, but occasionally, I want a game that I can jump and tear stuff up at 100 mph without thinking too much. It's like music. Sometimes I want Pink Floyd, with its complex arrangements and layered lyrics giving me pause to reflect on the human condition. Other times, I want Ministry- can't understand most of the lyrics, but it makes me feel like moving fast and breaking stuff.

Now imagine you were feeling aggressive. Had a long week and you don't want to think about anything, just let off some steam. You pick up a newly released Ministry album, only to find they have branched off from industrial speed metal to a slower, more clean sound. The vocals are clearer and they are taking distortion out of the guitar.
It may be brilliant and beautiful- a work of musical art. But you're still angry. Why? You bought a Ministry album, you expect Ministry. If they wanted to experiment under a different name, you would be fine. But don't say it's Ministry, if it's mellow.

This is the problem with Doom Eternal, and why I have multiple completions of Doom 2016 and have given up on Doom Eternal twice now when I realized I wasn't having fun.

Doom Eternal is a polished, well-thought-out, creative, and visually gorgeous video game. So why the complaint? It doesn't feel like DOOM. It's complicated. The problem is that I think developers sometimes confuse complexity with creativity. You see, the enemies require more planning and precision to kill. You need to use the right weapons and hit the right weak points. The weapon mods and runes and points and whatever else they throw in, requires planning and customization, secrets abound that you are encouraged to look for, and finally there is the challenging platforming aspect- always fun in a FPS. (They only managed to get climbing ladders in FPS a less monitor-smashing exercise a few years ago). While they emphasize "keep moving" to keep the action looking frenetic, the reality is that my mind is constantly engaged in trying to keep track if I need health, so I need to hit E and glory kill, or do I need ammo, so I hit c to chainsaw, or armor so I got to hit r for my flamer, then kill the enemy, but which weapon do I have, which mod is set on it, what enemies are here, what are their weaknesses, does it match my weapon mod, and where do I need to go on this map, can't stop to look what's over the edge because KEEP MOVING, and so on... My mind is definitely engaged- Which is what is WRONG!

As I described above, when I sit down and decide to play Doom, it is because I am in a certain "mood"- a DOOMMOOD if you will. The DOOMMOOD hits when I'm stressed, been doing lots of problem solving, bummed out, etc... I play Doom because I want to kill stuff fast. So when I sat down to play Doom Eternal, that's what I wanted to do. I was just on stage 2, Exultia when I realized I had not really fought that much. But I had spent hours trying to execute dashes and jumps to hard to reach secrets and dying in that stupid ********* lava. It wasn't scratching my Doom itch. And because I was already in a DOOMMOOD, this changed to anger and made me begin to resent and hate the game.

As I reflect now, I think if I had bought a game called The Sentinels, that was described as a challenging platformer, with a story spanning divine and infernal realms, a mysterious hub where you can refine your tools and techniques, and enemies that you dominate by precision application of force combined with knowledge of their weakness, and then played this, I would give it an A+. I would have been in a Portal type mood, or maybe an Ori type mood. But it was called Doom. So I was disappointed. And while I may try to reframe the game in my brain as "The Sentinels" and play it again in another mood, my conclusion will stand that this is a really good Game, but a really disappointing DOOM.

[Sar]

Doom Eternal is such a turd people are actually talking fondly of Doom 3

wow

[min3r95]

Ζipоh původně napsal:

Jump scares done right has been best exemplified by games such as Squirrel Stapler wherein the jump is entirely on the part of the player with the scare being an entirely subtle shift.

There are two, with one being at an assumed moment of peace to forcefully reel the player back into feeling of insanity and the other is after a long build of tension.

Or the Pony Factory

[min3r95]

Sar původně napsal:

Doom Eternal is such a turd people are actually talking fondly of Doom 3

wow

Hey i love Half-Doom

[Sar]

pointless post time: my opinions on Doom 3

• great environment design, every other room has something unique going on
  
• mostly cool enemy designs
  
• mostly cool guns
  
• really repetitive encounters that don't make full use of varied enemy roster until about last quarter of the game
  
• really boring writing
  
• balance isn't great, too much ammo, armor is almost pointless
  
• if you want to ape Half-Life too much, why constantly have third person cutscenes?

I personally don't give a damn that it's "not Doom" and it would be an all time classic for me if id spent some time polishing the encounters and overall balance, and maybe hired a competent writer.

Doom 3 shotgun is good.

[Sar]

VERY IMPORTANT POST

Sar původně napsal:

Why are you getting your Doom 1 facts from a zoomer documentary? According to Romero on Twitter, E3M6 requiring a rocket jump to reach E3M9 was Carmack’s idea.

In E3M6 Mt. Erebus, John Carmack had the idea for the secret exit. He said, "make them rocket-blast backwards off a ledge into the secret area.

Okay, so I can't access twitter without a proxy and from a quick google search I though this was Romero's post. But I was wrong. That was Romero replying to Sandy Petersen's post. Petersen claimed rocket jump on E3M6 was Carmack's idea, but Romero says it was Tom Hall's idea and implementation.

https://twitter.com/romero/status/1376142582783295489

[Unmotivated]

Gunna be honest: Doom 3 on the Xbox was part of the best of my childhood. I was also playing (very poorly, might i add) Prince of Persia Sands of Time, Brothers in Arms Road to Hill 30, Mechassault 2 and Rainbow Six 3 at the time.

Makes me miss bein a kid, when crap like politics wasn't a concern, when food just magically appeared in the fridge when i got home, and when Mortal Kombat was a 3D fighter on the Playstation 2 instead of being the least respected thing in the FGC.

Kinda makes me feel like i wasted my life honestly. Great, now i'm nostalgic and soapboxing for no reason. Lol

[Wiesshund]

Motivated původně napsal:

when crap like politics wasn't a concern

They aren't now.
My house has a no politics rule, they do not exist, you will not discuss them unless you wish to make a hasty visit to the street.

when food just magically appeared in the fridge when i got home

I sort of have that worked out.
Walmart app, it is magically bagged up and stuffed in the car for me on my way through
I still have to stuff it in the fridge and pretend it just appeared.
Close as i can get so far.

Still better than when i was a kid i guess, cause it got in the fridge, cause i carried the damned stuff home, and it was never anything that i wanted.

and when Mortal Kombat was a 3D fighter on the Playstation 2

It still is, and i still suck at it.
It is only a visit to the closet away.

Magnavox Odyssey
CoCo 128(color computer III)
RLX1000HD(Tandy 80286)
Atari 2600, 7800, Jaguar
NeoGeo
NEC TurboGraphix
NES, SNES, N64, NGC, Wii
PS1, PS2
Sega Master, Genesis, CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast
3DO
Xbox 360

Take your pick, you gotta put it all away though

[Jordan_Peterson]

Wiesshund původně napsal:

Jordan Peterson původně napsal:

So, is this critique coming from firsthand experience, or are we just throwing projections around?

Is it even possible that you can reply, with out inventing your own alternate realities?

Funny you should bring that up, considering it's the DE:fenders who've mastered the art of crafting them.
At least this now is a case of Schrödinger's Cat. Two different realities, depending on which side you look from, it will be true to you.

But I can still see a classic case of projection—judging others by your own playbook.
So whatever fabrication I see about me, it is probably 10times more true about the one's throwing it my way.

When OP hits the nail on the head with 'Good game, bad Doom,' it unveils the inconvenient truth some would rather not face, leading to the usual tactics: personal attacks and fabrications.
As for your ban, it seems like you've merely harvested what was sown. Rest assured, my hands are clean.

[min3r95]

Motivated původně napsal:

Gunna be honest: Doom 3 on the Xbox was part of the best of my childhood. I was also playing (very poorly, might i add) Prince of Persia Sands of Time, Brothers in Arms Road to Hill 30, Mechassault 2 and Rainbow Six 3 at the time.

Makes me miss bein a kid, when crap like politics wasn't a concern, when food just magically appeared in the fridge when i got home, and when Mortal Kombat was a 3D fighter on the Playstation 2 instead of being the least respected thing in the FGC.

Kinda makes me feel like i wasted my life honestly. Great, now i'm nostalgic and soapboxing for no reason. Lol

Your love for Doom 3 is delicious

[Wiesshund]

Jordan Peterson původně napsal:

loaded rhetorical question

No really it wasn't, but by all means, continue your journey through floor 13

[Wolf68]

SuperFly původně napsal:

No amount of parroted, repetitious thread trolling and obfuscation of constructive discussion will ever be able to disguise the reality that DOOM:Eternal just wasn't a good DOOM game.

It failed to deliver with both the inherent gameplay restrictions, and its abortion of a narrative.

There are no inherent gameplay restrictions. There are OPTIONS, and many of them. Its entirely on YOU if you choose too handicap yourself.

[Wolf68]

Sar původně napsal:

Doom Eternal is such a turd people are actually talking fondly of Doom 3

wow

People have been talking fondly about Doom 3 for ages. There was even a remaster a few years ago that did pretty good. How new are you?

[Sar]

Wolf68 původně napsal:

How new are you?

fresh from an axlotl tank, how about you

[Joker]

Wolf68 původně napsal:

Sar původně napsal:

Doom Eternal is such a turd people are actually talking fondly of Doom 3

wow

People have been talking fondly about Doom 3 for ages. There was even a remaster a few years ago that did pretty good. How new are you?

when speaking to the master of sarcasm, it may be a good idea to think twice first

[BubonicDuck]

Wolf68 původně napsal:

Sar původně napsal:

Doom Eternal is such a turd people are actually talking fondly of Doom 3

wow

People have been talking fondly about Doom 3 for ages. There was even a remaster a few years ago that did pretty good. How new are you?

It's become a cult classic, but received a lot of criticism on release for being too dark, having a terrible shotgun and some of the changes in monster appearance.
One of the things I like about the 3 modern Doom games has been the variation.