Doom Eternal - Good Game, Bad Doom?

[DM Science]

I'm an old school gamer. Was around to play original Doom (and Wolfenstein before that). I generally try to be positive and try to separate my personal feelings about games, movies, music, etc from the work in and of itself.

I tried Doom Eternal for the second time recently. Doom 2016 was the most fun I had in a long time on a computer game with high intensity. I like most types of games. I started on Atari and Pong, so can appreciate the bounty of modern gaming. I usually enjoy depth and story, but occasionally, I want a game that I can jump and tear stuff up at 100 mph without thinking too much. It's like music. Sometimes I want Pink Floyd, with its complex arrangements and layered lyrics giving me pause to reflect on the human condition. Other times, I want Ministry- can't understand most of the lyrics, but it makes me feel like moving fast and breaking stuff.

Now imagine you were feeling aggressive. Had a long week and you don't want to think about anything, just let off some steam. You pick up a newly released Ministry album, only to find they have branched off from industrial speed metal to a slower, more clean sound. The vocals are clearer and they are taking distortion out of the guitar.
It may be brilliant and beautiful- a work of musical art. But you're still angry. Why? You bought a Ministry album, you expect Ministry. If they wanted to experiment under a different name, you would be fine. But don't say it's Ministry, if it's mellow.

This is the problem with Doom Eternal, and why I have multiple completions of Doom 2016 and have given up on Doom Eternal twice now when I realized I wasn't having fun.

Doom Eternal is a polished, well-thought-out, creative, and visually gorgeous video game. So why the complaint? It doesn't feel like DOOM. It's complicated. The problem is that I think developers sometimes confuse complexity with creativity. You see, the enemies require more planning and precision to kill. You need to use the right weapons and hit the right weak points. The weapon mods and runes and points and whatever else they throw in, requires planning and customization, secrets abound that you are encouraged to look for, and finally there is the challenging platforming aspect- always fun in a FPS. (They only managed to get climbing ladders in FPS a less monitor-smashing exercise a few years ago). While they emphasize "keep moving" to keep the action looking frenetic, the reality is that my mind is constantly engaged in trying to keep track if I need health, so I need to hit E and glory kill, or do I need ammo, so I hit c to chainsaw, or armor so I got to hit r for my flamer, then kill the enemy, but which weapon do I have, which mod is set on it, what enemies are here, what are their weaknesses, does it match my weapon mod, and where do I need to go on this map, can't stop to look what's over the edge because KEEP MOVING, and so on... My mind is definitely engaged- Which is what is WRONG!

As I described above, when I sit down and decide to play Doom, it is because I am in a certain "mood"- a DOOMMOOD if you will. The DOOMMOOD hits when I'm stressed, been doing lots of problem solving, bummed out, etc... I play Doom because I want to kill stuff fast. So when I sat down to play Doom Eternal, that's what I wanted to do. I was just on stage 2, Exultia when I realized I had not really fought that much. But I had spent hours trying to execute dashes and jumps to hard to reach secrets and dying in that stupid ********* lava. It wasn't scratching my Doom itch. And because I was already in a DOOMMOOD, this changed to anger and made me begin to resent and hate the game.

As I reflect now, I think if I had bought a game called The Sentinels, that was described as a challenging platformer, with a story spanning divine and infernal realms, a mysterious hub where you can refine your tools and techniques, and enemies that you dominate by precision application of force combined with knowledge of their weakness, and then played this, I would give it an A+. I would have been in a Portal type mood, or maybe an Ori type mood. But it was called Doom. So I was disappointed. And while I may try to reframe the game in my brain as "The Sentinels" and play it again in another mood, my conclusion will stand that this is a really good Game, but a really disappointing DOOM.

[SuperFly]

. . .Lots of desperate stress over a single piece of advice. Frantic, even?

Maybe I'm onto something? Only the player can judge, when they play.

引用自 Grampire：

引用自 SuperFly：

So much back-breaking to try and dissuade a logical approach to figuring out the game at its core... Remove the extra and play to what the game offers, first, before adding all your options.

It worked very well for me -- and it seems that it stresses out some of the very same heads who don't ever wish to admit that there's fault with the title -- or that it isn't where the series should focus, next.

It couldn't hurt you to try, it could only make the game play & loop more understandable.
Maybe that's what some would weirdly & specifically like to have other players avoid?
There's sure a lot of desperate stress over this particular advice. . .

Yes! And while you're at it - play Doom 2 without the Super Shotgun. . .Focus on the core shotgun so you can better understand it.
You could also stop left strafing. Just right strafing is enough, and you could right strafe 270 degrees to go left anyways....

What you're describing with classic DOOM are players challenging themselves with alternate playstyles....
That has absolutely nothing in common with playing DOOM:Eternal without Runes, which is actively rewarded with status-level multiplayer swag, so is by nature an intended way to play D:E.

引用自 Grampire：

...
The only one breaking their back with absurd comments here is Sfly. Something . . ....oh contributor who has been hating the game for 4 years so very desperately? Tell us more.
...

It seems that your problem is of a more personal nature than the "validity of (my) advice'.

Nah -- it's very apparent that the absurd behavior isn't coming from me -- but from the bending-over-backwards being done to dissuade a particular style of learning the fundamentals of D:E's mechanics.

Runeless play is as stripped down as the experience can get -- but it also puts everything that's really there on the table for the player to see and take stock of.

[Joker]

Game plays great runeless, but it really is the other way around. Enjoy the game with all its additions and layers first, then pick it apart second playthrough. But I don't think our Slayer will play the campaign for a second time🤯

[SuperFly]

引用自 Joker：

Game plays great runeless, but it really is the other way around. Enjoy the game with all its additions and layers first, then pick it apart second playthrough. But I don't think our Slayer will play the campaign for a second time🤯

I agree, but if the player is struggling to get over the power curve -- I say flatten the curve.

This all speaks to what I have maintained of this game since launch -- it is 'hard to learn, easy to master' -- the inverse of the formula that made & keeps DOOM relevant and popular.

[Grampire]

The game "plays great runeless" - it also plays great without weapon swapping, without using weapon mods, without many, many other tools in the system.

And something like air control actively makes movement and platforming easier. Why would you presume stripping this out makes a "smoother" experience?

Those challenge runs are an exact corollary to this. When I use only the HC on a level - that is an exact corollary to this. It's much milder, but it is.

You're telling people to make the game harder so you can make it less hard.

引用自 SuperFly：

It seems that your problem is of a more personal nature than the "validity of (my) advice'.

Keep telling yourself this as though I'm not fully aware of the impact runes have in this game. There's nothing personal, it's just awesomely bad advice.

[Jordan_Peterson]

引用自 Grampire：

There's nothing personal, it's just awesomely bad advice.

Whom are you trying to sell this?
Everything that DE:fenders post screems "personal".

[Joker]

I find it easy to learn hard to master but to each their own. What grampire wrote is the absolute truth to this situation, but sure Motivated can do whatever he wants. Considering that the game is kicking his ass though, I doubt he's going to play runeless. He even said it himself, he needs a lot of help to beat the game at the moment

[Sar]

What’s the point in paying runeless? They’re completely passive modifiers (except for Chrono Strike, kinda) that just make gameplay better. It honestly feels like SuperFly is so incredibly proud of himself completing the game without runes he just has to insert that in every conversation.

Weird that he didn’t do that on his first playthrough, though.

[SuperFly]

"What is it with playing Runeless??"
It genuinely gives the player a more straightforward approach to the combat mechanics and the 'combat loop' on offer. This was very valuable in figuring out how this game ticks.

It's not bragging, or anything so conceited or silly -- it's just the facts of this game.

DOOM:Eternal is greatly customizable across the board. In the past I've just referred to it as 'skinning DOOM' -- but the customization is a core part of the game, the gameplay, and its approach in design.
To achieve that way for the player to 'build out their style', the game inherently moved away from what makes a shooter a shooter, and offers something different where you can't beat a demon to death with your fists, because the 'game' says 'no'.

To explore the game, experience it without all the customizations that "power the fantasy" you're offered. It's really simple as an approach, and it works wonders for understanding DOOM:Eternal.
...Whether or not players like what they get when it all clicks is on their personal preferences.

A good DOOM game can stand on its own merits, without add-ons/skins/wads/extra abilities/whatever have you/etc...
If D:E is as great of a DOOM game as is being peddled, it can hold up to this easy scrutiny.

[Joker]

That's false, sorry😥

Try again!😄

[SuperFly]

引用自 Joker：

That's false, sorry😥

Try again!😄

"Because (you) said so. GG try again no rematch lul"?

The players can decide for themselves. it doesn't take 1,000 hours of play to figure out this game.
No amount of inanity or trolling will obfuscate that -- and the attempts are a desperate look.

[Joker]

Ok so u just spoke for urself got it. Should've made it clear from the beginnig, but thx for the clarification🤩

[SuperFly]

引用自 Joker：

Ok so u just spoke for urself got it. Should've made it clear from the beginnig, but thx for the clarification🤩

That makes no sense, but I'm pleased you feel clarified on whatever had confused you.

[Sar]

引用自 Motivated：

引用自 Ace：

Imagine calling people kiddos when they prove you wrong, pretty immature.



Interesting way to describe the OG DOOM's but it's pretty accurate yes. I'll stick to a more skill based shooter that is Eternal, but hey thanks for showing your lack of understanding of D:E's gameplay & mechanics once again, because i take it with the flashing enemies you're referring to the glory kill system, you know that's optional & with the effect that can be disabled in the main menu.

Know better.

Also it's over 900 hours but fear not we know that fact checking isn't really your strong point.

What's optional about glory kills? Isn't that LITERALLY the only thing keeping you alive most of the time in heavier fights? (I mean, i guess at low health enemies drop health anyway, but they drop far more from a glory kill, right?)

Glory Kills are very useful indeed, when people are saying you can complete the game without them, they are right, but you need to be a master of combat to do that. I wouldn’t advise that to a new player, just like I wouldn’t advise to play runeless.

However, GKs are far from the only thing keeping you alive. The humble Flame Belch gives you a steady supply of armor if you don’t forget to ignite groups of demons; upgraded Ice Bomb is probably the best source of health refill in the game; regular medkits and ammo pickups exist and are way more effective than they were in 2016; lastly, Chaingun Shield can outright prevent taking most forms of damage if you activate it in time.

So yeah, GKs have a role but there are other important tools as well.

[Joker]

引用自 SuperFly：

引用自 Joker：

Ok so u just spoke for urself got it. Should've made it clear from the beginnig, but thx for the clarification🤩

That makes no sense, but I'm pleased you feel clarified on whatever had confused you.

U decided for urswlf that playing runeless gave more straightforward approach to combat. That's your experience. That's whst I meant

[furbleburble]

Don't use the chainsaw.