Doom Eternal - Good Game, Bad Doom?

[DM Science]

I'm an old school gamer. Was around to play original Doom (and Wolfenstein before that). I generally try to be positive and try to separate my personal feelings about games, movies, music, etc from the work in and of itself.

I tried Doom Eternal for the second time recently. Doom 2016 was the most fun I had in a long time on a computer game with high intensity. I like most types of games. I started on Atari and Pong, so can appreciate the bounty of modern gaming. I usually enjoy depth and story, but occasionally, I want a game that I can jump and tear stuff up at 100 mph without thinking too much. It's like music. Sometimes I want Pink Floyd, with its complex arrangements and layered lyrics giving me pause to reflect on the human condition. Other times, I want Ministry- can't understand most of the lyrics, but it makes me feel like moving fast and breaking stuff.

Now imagine you were feeling aggressive. Had a long week and you don't want to think about anything, just let off some steam. You pick up a newly released Ministry album, only to find they have branched off from industrial speed metal to a slower, more clean sound. The vocals are clearer and they are taking distortion out of the guitar.
It may be brilliant and beautiful- a work of musical art. But you're still angry. Why? You bought a Ministry album, you expect Ministry. If they wanted to experiment under a different name, you would be fine. But don't say it's Ministry, if it's mellow.

This is the problem with Doom Eternal, and why I have multiple completions of Doom 2016 and have given up on Doom Eternal twice now when I realized I wasn't having fun.

Doom Eternal is a polished, well-thought-out, creative, and visually gorgeous video game. So why the complaint? It doesn't feel like DOOM. It's complicated. The problem is that I think developers sometimes confuse complexity with creativity. You see, the enemies require more planning and precision to kill. You need to use the right weapons and hit the right weak points. The weapon mods and runes and points and whatever else they throw in, requires planning and customization, secrets abound that you are encouraged to look for, and finally there is the challenging platforming aspect- always fun in a FPS. (They only managed to get climbing ladders in FPS a less monitor-smashing exercise a few years ago). While they emphasize "keep moving" to keep the action looking frenetic, the reality is that my mind is constantly engaged in trying to keep track if I need health, so I need to hit E and glory kill, or do I need ammo, so I hit c to chainsaw, or armor so I got to hit r for my flamer, then kill the enemy, but which weapon do I have, which mod is set on it, what enemies are here, what are their weaknesses, does it match my weapon mod, and where do I need to go on this map, can't stop to look what's over the edge because KEEP MOVING, and so on... My mind is definitely engaged- Which is what is WRONG!

As I described above, when I sit down and decide to play Doom, it is because I am in a certain "mood"- a DOOMMOOD if you will. The DOOMMOOD hits when I'm stressed, been doing lots of problem solving, bummed out, etc... I play Doom because I want to kill stuff fast. So when I sat down to play Doom Eternal, that's what I wanted to do. I was just on stage 2, Exultia when I realized I had not really fought that much. But I had spent hours trying to execute dashes and jumps to hard to reach secrets and dying in that stupid ********* lava. It wasn't scratching my Doom itch. And because I was already in a DOOMMOOD, this changed to anger and made me begin to resent and hate the game.

As I reflect now, I think if I had bought a game called The Sentinels, that was described as a challenging platformer, with a story spanning divine and infernal realms, a mysterious hub where you can refine your tools and techniques, and enemies that you dominate by precision application of force combined with knowledge of their weakness, and then played this, I would give it an A+. I would have been in a Portal type mood, or maybe an Ori type mood. But it was called Doom. So I was disappointed. And while I may try to reframe the game in my brain as "The Sentinels" and play it again in another mood, my conclusion will stand that this is a really good Game, but a really disappointing DOOM.

[HouseOfTheRat]

This thread seems to have gone as far from the topic as Eternal has from DOOM gameplay.

[Grampire]

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

SuperFly doesn’t actually claim Eternal has less players. He claims that if you divide the total amount of Eternal owners by the average player number and do the same for 2016, the latter wins. He does kinda lie about averages, like 2016 hasn’t been averaging 1000k for two years now, but that’s his point.

Eternal had more hype out the gate and sales were extremely front-loaded. The amount of players at Eternal's release was higher, and their playtime was stacked.

So if you're trying to get to how much the average Eternal player played, it's still not a great metric. I would be more interested in how many hours the average Eternal user logged vs. A control like 2016.

[Jordan_Peterson]

İlk olarak 2024 tarafından gönderildi:

This thread seems to have gone as far from the topic as Eternal has from DOOM gameplay.

Could have not worded it better!

[Ace]

İlk olarak Wiesshund tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Ace tarafından gönderildi:

Show's that you are incorrect.

That will probably get you a report and ban, since the video will hurt people's feelings.


It hurts my feeling
Cause i cant play that good LoL

The truth has that effect.

[SuperFly]

Oh?
The same spam video that has nothing to do with the topic? Linked again?
Not shocking at all to see the same old solicitation...

[SuperFly]

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Ace tarafından gönderildi:

We already have. In over 30+ threads.

I'm sure you can link some easy mathmatics in one of those threads, then?
And not just the same Youtube video... or repeating the above steamcharts links which inform these conclusions... or saying "91% Positive Reviews...
You know, something that might in any way actually refutes what's been covered in the above resources and this discussion?

...We'll wait.

I guess Ace just couldn't find any of that 30+ pages of evidence.

...Who knew?

[Ace]

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

I'm sure you can link some easy mathmatics in one of those threads, then?
And not just the same Youtube video... or repeating the above steamcharts links which inform these conclusions... or saying "91% Positive Reviews...
You know, something that might in any way actually refutes what's been covered in the above resources and this discussion?

...We'll wait.

I guess Ace just couldn't find any of that 30+ pages of evidence.

...Who knew?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/782330/discussions/0/4145068731425501636/?ctp=13

Here you go :)

Ignoring responses is never a great idea, especially when they prove you wrong.

Now we'll wait for your evidence & definitions people have asked for.

We'll wait...

Be better.

[SuperFly]

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

DOOM:Eternal is divisive enough on its own.

Can it really be called “divisive” when the only people who enjoyed it are ADHD Fortnite kids and even those forgot about it in a week? A game without a lasting legacy cannot divide a long standing fanbase. Eventually the publisher is going to stop paying bot farms to stir up the positive discussion and Doom Eternal will be only be remembered as a curious oddity.

If you assume 'division' would be in equal parts.
While it's not a significant segment, D:E definitely served to be divisive enough to form a toxic, very vocal sub-grouping of those same caliber of players you mention above.
Bethesda even went so far as to try to poach out social hubs for said miscreants.

DOOM:Eternal took a giant ♥♥♥♥ all over the game's canonical plotline with TAG 1/2 -- and left it in a very bad place by not delivering a DOOM game that the fans, by and large, could enjoy.

That's bad enough to warrant their ire. This was supposed to be a DOOM game.

[Sar]

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

Can it really be called “divisive” when the only people who enjoyed it are ADHD Fortnite kids and even those forgot about it in a week? A game without a lasting legacy cannot divide a long standing fanbase. Eventually the publisher is going to stop paying bot farms to stir up the positive discussion and Doom Eternal will be only be remembered as a curious oddity.

If you assume 'division' would be in equal parts.
While it's not a significant segment, D:E definitely served to be divisive enough to form a toxic, very vocal sub-grouping of those same caliber of players you mention above.
Bethesda even went so far as to try to poach out social hubs for said miscreants.

DOOM:Eternal took a giant ♥♥♥♥ all over the game's canonical plotline with TAG 1/2 -- and left it in a very bad place by not delivering a DOOM game that the fans, by and large, could enjoy.

That's bad enough to warrant their ire. This was supposed to be a DOOM game.

But people who liked Eternal were never Doom fans, so there is no division, then. The Doom fans stand united and firmly in opposition to Fortniteifying their beloved franchise.

[Jordan_Peterson]

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

If you assume 'division' would be in equal parts.
While it's not a significant segment, D:E definitely served to be divisive enough to form a toxic, very vocal sub-grouping of those same caliber of players you mention above.
Bethesda even went so far as to try to poach out social hubs for said miscreants.

DOOM:Eternal took a giant ♥♥♥♥ all over the game's canonical plotline with TAG 1/2 -- and left it in a very bad place by not delivering a DOOM game that the fans, by and large, could enjoy.

That's bad enough to warrant their ire. This was supposed to be a DOOM game.

But people who liked Eternal were never Doom fans, so there is no division, then. The Doom fans stand united and firmly in opposition to Fortniteifying their beloved franchise.

Well one can buy Doom Eternal, that's ok if someone likes it. But there is something one can not buy and that is having good taste in video games or knowledge in game design.
If we are just here in a forum of hardcore fans, obviously no matter what evidence or arguments those fans get presented, they will find loopholes or mental gymnastics to say the opposite.
Reality and facts is not something one would think of when he goes to a fanclub or a platform where mostly hardocre gamers lurk around.
Wouldn't you agree?

[Sar]

Could you guys please just let me talk to my buddy SuperFly?

[SuperFly]

İlk olarak Wiesshund tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

But people who liked Eternal were never Doom fans, so there is no division, then. The Doom fans stand united and firmly in opposition to Fortniteifying their beloved franchise.

What?
You make very strange assumptions.
I have more hours playing Doom 1 and Doom 2 than some of you have been alive.
I ran a DWANGO hub until DWANGO ended and even made a few DWANGO Wads (and a lot of non DWANGO Wads)
I even have a ton of hours in Doom 3 and bought that in boxed retail and it's expansion.
(The good version, not the BFG)
I have D16 and DE and play both
And i hate fortnight.
Any more utter nonsense assumptions you care to make?

You'd think with a history like that, you'd know better than to lobby false accusations of plagiarism that you can't possibly back up. Sadly, with that short-but-distinct history of making untrue statements on these forums, your other claims are equally-as-dubious.

Invested hours in a game don't actually equate to any kind of professionalism -- it just means you won't ever get those hours back to pursue other skillsets.
The loudest voices claiming that D:E is the best thing since sliced bread have an average of 1k hours each -- and with D:E's very small population of players, that's just plain fanaticism at play.

It doesn't actually mean they understand what makes a good DOOM game. And that shows.

[Sar]

Wow, that’s savage.

[SuperFly]

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

Wow, that’s savage.

Not everybody logging those kinds of hours is wasting their time, mind you.
Some of them are just admittedly idling in the game to keep it boosted on metrics:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/782330/discussions/0/3821914054514997939/?ctp=2#c3821914054519618952
It can't contend without that assistance to keep those figures inflated, really.
It was a decent game when it came out, but it's already been thoroughly outclassed in its own niche market slice.

[Grampire]

İlk olarak SuperFly tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sar tarafından gönderildi:

Wow, that’s savage.

Not everybody logging those kinds of hours is wasting their time, mind you.

Of course youre right - there's absolutely no chance whatsoever that these simple minded dregs are actually enjoying themselves.