Quality Level Design

[Animalman]

Played this years ago on release of ancient gods pt 2 yeah.
I liked it alot at the time.

playing it again on steam. some really nice maps in the base game camapaign. Really good combat loop.

I actually like the purple goo.
I like it all.

Wasn't a fan of the SFX update to the Dog Knight. u know the guy. I hadnt played in many years, due to laptop issues. But the dog knights knockout sound, and all that i still feel like is too much lol wasnt sure if on harder difficulty they disabled it.

Anyways. every effect in this game impresses me. Very well designed. Also the weapons are so perfected when you are playing right it is really nice.

[Animalman]

I'l tell you though play through the campaign picking what u know to be the best upgrades for weapons first time is good. Same deal with suit points and all that. Picking the stuff that is most useful.

I remember before they had the knockout sound. Its basically a cue for the ancient gods Hammer strike, which made the enemy easier to defeat. Originally these guys gave u 15 minutes of combat. They were bad ass. Like real bad ass.

They were nerfed though. Way back when. Demoted. But they are still tough in a way. Just they ain't all that. Its the dog now mainly that gets you.

I still grab the auto fire for the shotgun. still useful.

Chainsawed one of those pigs never knew was possible.

Found some paths i thought i never saw before

Really good game. Very well made. I know there some issues with gpx device selection, i recently made a game engine, and i can implement similar selectors. But not sure they are the best way to handle it. But i am guessing the primary release of this was on console, where only one device is available. But anyway the game runs fine for me.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by Animalman:

. . .every effect in this game impresses me. Very well designed. Also the weapons are so perfected when you are playing right it is really nice.

My issue is with the rest of the time, when the player isn't "playing right". . .
A big failing of this title, and why it hasn't retained 1/3rd of its predecessor's playerbase, is that restrictive style & micromanagement.

Glad that you enjoyed your playtime, and I enjoyed your love letter.

[Ace]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Originally posted by Animalman:

. . .every effect in this game impresses me. Very well designed. Also the weapons are so perfected when you are playing right it is really nice.

My issue is with the rest of the time, when the player isn't "playing right". . .
A big failing of this title, and why it hasn't retained 1/3rd of its predecessor's playerbase, is that restrictive style & micromanagement.

Glad that you enjoyed your playtime, and I enjoyed your love letter.

Which does not exist in eternal, there is no such "restrictive style & micromanagement" As we have already proven in previous threads multiple times.

On Topic:

I'm glad you're enjoying the game & appreciating the amazing combat loop & level design, It's great that the game gives the player the creative freedom to kill & get resources back in a ton of different ways, it makes you a better fps player because of it.

EDIT: Thanks for the points! & for proving that you cannot counter facts :)

[Gordon Freeman]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Originally posted by Animalman:

. . .every effect in this game impresses me. Very well designed. Also the weapons are so perfected when you are playing right it is really nice.

My issue is with the rest of the time, when the player isn't "playing right". . .
A big failing of this title, and why it hasn't retained 1/3rd of its predecessor's playerbase, is that restrictive style & micromanagement.

24 shotgun shells. In a DOOM game. I don't think anyone could convince me that the first thing they think of when they hear DOOM is 24 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shotgun shells. Nor that the second thing is swapping between weapons like a monkey with ADHD. Don't even get me started on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chainsaw ammo pinata mechanics, they're just annoying.

When I think of DOOM, I think of running through tightly designed funhouses with no clearly defined and restrictive "arenas" (the entire map is an arena, after all), running incredibly fast and blowing bastards up with a shotgun, or perhaps circling a crowd with a chaingun and/or plasma rifle. Hell, maybe even cracking a few Pinky skulls open with a set of brass knuckles. Gameplay so fast you can outrun a rocket you fired, with weapons and enemies that are masterfully crafted not to have some restrictive "fun zone", but to just be actually fun.

I don't get any of that from Eternal. Outside of some random nostalgia pandering, nothing about this game screams "DOOM" at all. I really don't think this ever should've been a DOOM game.

I'm glad some people can enjoy it, though. Curious how you somehow ended up liking the purple goo, though.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Gordon Freeman:

When I think of DOOM, I think of running through tightly designed funhouses with no clearly defined and restrictive "arenas" (the entire map is an arena, after all), running incredibly fast and blowing bastards up with a shotgun, or perhaps circling a crowd with a chaingun and/or plasma rifle. Hell, maybe even cracking a few Pinky skulls open with a set of brass knuckles. Gameplay so fast you can outrun a rocket you fired, with weapons and enemies that are masterfully crafted not to have some restrictive "fun zone", but to just be actually fun

Funny because that's exactly what the game play of eternal is, only difference is that you have to manage your resources (just like in every game) except now you have tons more options to get them back & keep killing demons just like you described, thus a game with more weapons, more creative ways of getting what you need back & more movement options cannot be restrictive.

[Animalman]

Yeah there is strategy going on micro fast paced strategy for sure. Feels good.

Sometimes feels like i want a pistol for so i don't over kill the zombies. Felt that way on release aswell, i heard they had a pistol cut from the game.


Weapon rosta is tight as is. For the core management. And the blend of weapon swtiching. If such a pistol was added, it shouldnt be included in the mouse wheel. but selected with a different button. or by holding a button. maybe a left handed shot.

I get on fine with shot gun ammo, i use rockets and asaulr rifle a lot. Plamsa

Switch to auto shotgun for quite a few enemies

Especically after a Frag Ice Frag combo on mancubus or soemthing. Some nice corridors.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Animalman:

Yeah there is strategy going on micro fast paced strategy for sure. Feels good.

Sometimes feels like i want a pistol for so i don't over kill the zombies. Felt that way on release aswell, i heard they had a pistol cut from the game.


Weapon rosta is tight as is. For the core management. And the blend of weapon swtiching. If such a pistol was added, it shouldnt be included in the mouse wheel. but selected with a different button. or by holding a button. maybe a left handed shot.

There was a pitsol, you could access it with a console command but they removed it, shame it was a pretty good one.

[Animalman]

Key is in weapon switching that is the core element of the game. I personally don't often have a weapon equipped for more than a few seconds, but entering a fight usually i will have that full auto out, or a plasma for Zom pickings

You also have to keep ontop of weapon cycle make sure all weapons in your cycle are set to the settings you want.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Animalman:

Key is in weapon switching that is the core element of the game. I personally don't often have a weapon equipped for more than a few seconds, but entering a fight usually i will have that full auto out, or a plasma for Zom pickings

You also have to keep ontop of weapon cycle make sure all weapons in your cycle are set to the settings you want.

100% agree, do you also use combos for max damage?

[Sar]

Originally posted by Gordon Freeman:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

My issue is with the rest of the time, when the player isn't "playing right". . .
A big failing of this title, and why it hasn't retained 1/3rd of its predecessor's playerbase, is that restrictive style & micromanagement.

24 shotgun shells. In a DOOM game. I don't think anyone could convince me that the first thing they think of when they hear DOOM is 24 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shotgun shells. Nor that the second thing is swapping between weapons like a monkey with ADHD. Don't even get me started on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chainsaw ammo pinata mechanics, they're just annoying.

When I think of DOOM, I think of running through tightly designed funhouses with no clearly defined and restrictive "arenas" (the entire map is an arena, after all), running incredibly fast and blowing bastards up with a shotgun, or perhaps circling a crowd with a chaingun and/or plasma rifle. Hell, maybe even cracking a few Pinky skulls open with a set of brass knuckles. Gameplay so fast you can outrun a rocket you fired, with weapons and enemies that are masterfully crafted not to have some restrictive "fun zone", but to just be actually fun.

I don't get any of that from Eternal. Outside of some random nostalgia pandering, nothing about this game screams "DOOM" at all. I really don't think this ever should've been a DOOM game.

I'm glad some people can enjoy it, though. Curious how you somehow ended up liking the purple goo, though.

Eternal’s SSG has by far the most powerful primary fire in the game, and stickies work wonders at wiping out groups of fodder, so shells are restricted. I think they’re the most common ammo type to be lying around the arenas, tho. Every arena has some of those lying around so you can pick them up like in the good old times.

You are correct that DE pays nothing like classic Doom tho, the exploration is de-emphasized and replaced with parkour in favor of combat arenas. A curious note, however: if you look at the fan made wads, quite a lot of them were moving towards arena combat even before D2016. Hell, Dead Simple of the original D2 might’ve been the progenitor of those if we don’t count boss arenas like Phobos Anomaly. For some people arena style encounters really work and for some they don’t.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by Gordon Freeman:

. . .
When I think of DOOM, I think of running through tightly designed funhouses with no clearly defined and restrictive "arenas" (the entire map is an arena, after all), running incredibly fast and blowing bastards up with a shotgun, or perhaps circling a crowd with a chaingun and/or plasma rifle. Hell, maybe even cracking a few Pinky skulls open with a set of brass knuckles. Gameplay so fast you can outrun a rocket you fired, with weapons and enemies that are masterfully crafted not to have some restrictive "fun zone", but to just be actually fun.

I don't get any of that from Eternal. Outside of some random nostalgia pandering, nothing about this game screams "DOOM" at all. I really don't think this ever should've been a DOOM game.
. . .

You definitely hit the nail on the head.
D:E is a niche product crafted for a dwindling, niche audience -- DOOM was never that.

Originally posted by Sar:

. . .
You are correct that DE pays nothing like classic Doom tho, the exploration is de-emphasized and replaced with parkour in favor of combat arenas. A curious note, however: if you look at the fan made wads, quite a lot of them were moving towards arena combat even before D2016. Hell, Dead Simple of the original D2 might’ve been the progenitor of those if we don’t count boss arenas like Phobos Anomaly. For some people arena style encounters really work and for some they don’t.

It's interesting that the absolute worst-designed of the classic DOOM levels were used as the inspiration for this game.
You mention 'Dead Simple', which was the most laughable level imaginable, only good for speed-running demos -- while the rest of this dumpster fire is just 'Perfect Hatred' for 30 hours.. . .

Nobody was actually 'going that way' except the few hangers-on that Hugo Martin might still have as he looks for new employment.

Originally posted by Ace:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

My issue is with the rest of the time, when the player isn't "playing right". . .
A big failing of this title, and why it hasn't retained 1/3rd of its predecessor's playerbase, is that restrictive style & micromanagement.

Which does not exist in eternal, there is no such "restrictive style & micromanagement" As we have already proven in previous threads multiple times.
. . .

Constantly parroting & repeating "we've (who? you?) proven this" doesn't actually make it so you've proven anything. . . Ever.
Spending a year linking some lame Youtube video spam with a crying baby isn't proving a thing -- it only shows who can't craft their own standards & positions on a given subject.

Even less people are buying that disinformation than are avoiding DOOM:Eternal.

[Animalman]

You can chainsaw mancubus aswell did you know. I don't know how i am doing it. there is some tech here. You chainsaw the head off the skeleton dude. You chainsaw in half the pigs, and you jam the chainsaw into the belly button of the mancubus but it doesnt kill it.

you heard of this?

[Sar]

Perfect Hatred is a great level? I really don’t see your point.

And I’ve definitively proved in some other thread that DE isn’t 3 times worse than D2016, it’s only twice worse - but you ignored my post and keep spreading misinformation.

[Ace]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Constantly parroting & repeating "we've (who? you?) proven this" doesn't actually make it so you've proven anything. . . Ever.
Spending a year linking some lame Youtube video spam with a crying baby isn't proving a thing -- it only shows who can't craft their own standards & positions on a given subject.

Even less people are buying that disinformation than are avoiding DOOM:Eternal.

Yes me & the constant stream of people who understand the game play loop & it's mechanics, we've provided factually correct information based on that & you have deflected & ignored it aswell as make excuses when we ask you to provide anything that can counter it.

The video in questions shows why you're argument is incorrect from someone who is a better player & has way more insight & understanding of the game than even me.

The only parroting & repeating any form of disinformation is being done by you, in any thread that is even a tiny bit negative about the game, any normal person who hates eternal would have just moved on with there life & found something they do enjoy playing instead of trying to bash a game that they're bad at.


I'll await your gift of another jester award proving my point.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by Sar:

Perfect Hatred is a great level? I really don’t see your point.

It really is not. It's just a pre-streak choke point in a milquetoast map-pack -- and a terrible basis for whatever D:E became.

Originally posted by Sar:

And I’ve definitively proved in some other thread that DE isn’t 3 times worse than D2016, it’s only twice worse - but you ignored my post and keep spreading misinformation.

I didn't ignore anything.
I didn't bother to address it because that subsequent post didn't add up to your previous math. You deliberately misconstrued the ever-widening gap, and treated the spread as if it were stagnant -- but it has just grown, since, and continues to widen.
Your "only half-as-bad" spin was based on my own admittedly-generous approximations, which trend to 1/3rd-as-popular, without that skew.

The take-away is that D:E is measurably worse than its predecessor(s), which ultimately makes it the worst of the DOOM entries.
I've never spread disinformation -- which is why there's been such a concerted effort to obfuscate the facts & figures that are put forth.

The truth about DOOM:Eternal hurts. It's unbecoming of this franchise,
D:E will never chart anywhere but down, despite those best wasted efforts.