Ranking the difficulty of master levels

[fuel]

I'm almost done with The World Spear master level. Honestly, this is the most difficult one so far. It's more difficult than Taras Nabad and the Super Gore Nest master levels, which were the most difficult before this one. Basically, at every step, we have big long fights. It never ends. It's like a slayer gate at every step. We almost never have easy fights in this master level.

Do you also think this is the hardest master level?

Here's my ranking, from the hardest to the easiest (in UV)

1. The World Spear
2. Taras Nabad
3. Super Gore Nest
4. Mars Core
5. Arc Complex

If I am missing any, I'll update the list once I finish the master level. Unfortunately, I can't go to the menu now, otherwise, I'd need to restart the master level from the beginning.

Btw, this master level is also the one that differs the most from the original, in my view. There are slight variations of the steps to proceed and there are also those red rays, which we could consider a new ambient enemy.

[Qdude]

I never thought of World Spear being that difficult on my first couple playthroughs. The level that truly broke me was Taras Nabad. The room with the blocked off totem and the room with the blocked off Archviles are just too much for me. Archvile room feels RNG since they spawn stuff in random spots and sometimes none at all. World Spear is my favorite level since the encounters are super varied and you have the hammer. Just focus on using hammer with ice bomb and flamethrower as much as possible and it gets so much easier. I just wish World Spear had the Meathook music attached to the level like Taras Nabad because that's my favorite song, I really dislike the DLC OST.

[fuel]

The level never ends. They made it a lot longer than the original. A lot of back and forth between places. It's not much the difficulty per se, it's that you have to endure a lot to finish it. You can't put it on hold, otherwise, you need to restart again from the beginning. The master level is nice (with a few original things and reminds of other battles, like the final battle against the Dark Lord), but, in my view, it's a bit too long for 1 single run. How many hours have I spent on it? 8? Idk exactly, but many.

[TrialMacameau]

You missed Cultist Base which is a Pre-Order Master level available to those who pre-ordered it. Sad to notice they didn't even think to give it to us afterwards.

[Huge-O]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TrialMacameau:

You missed Cultist Base which is a Pre-Order Master level available to those who pre-ordered it. Sad to notice they didn't even think to give it to us afterwards.

you can buy the master level with the rip and tear pack
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1098300/DOOM_Eternal_The_Rip_and_Tear_Pack/

[Furious Fap]

I basically agree but think mars core might be a lil harder than SGN

[Furious Fap]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von hellwalker:

The level never ends. They made it a lot longer than the original. A lot of back and forth between places. It's not much the difficulty per se, it's that you have to endure a lot to finish it. You can't put it on hold, otherwise, you need to restart again from the beginning. The master level is nice (with a few original things and reminds of other battles, like the final battle against the Dark Lord), but, in my view, it's a bit too long for 1 single run. How many hours have I spent on it? 8? Idk exactly, but many.

You've spent 8 hours on it?
I spent maybe 2-3 hours my first time (nightmare) but now it takes me about an hour.
Still haven't gotten UN done for it but I've gotten really close a couple times so it should only take another few tries.

Perhaps you should try it on a lower difficulty first, or replay some other master levels/DLC levels for some more general practice of high intensity fights.
WSML is quite difficult but if it's taking you THAT long you might just not be ready for it yet. I mean, you say it's not the difficulty but if it's taking you that long you must be dying over and over again. If you do it on a lower difficulty first you might have a quicker time of a second run on your usual difficulty because you will at least know the fights and stuff.

Idk.

I do think this is definitely the hardest ML and I do wish you could save mid level. Good luck!

[Sar]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Furious Fap:

I basically agree but think mars core might be a lil harder than SGN

The Marauder bend and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ triple Arch-Vile (who spawn while two Tyrants are still alive) of SGN has it beat, I'd say. Of course, difficulty is personal.

Edit: oh yeah, and the double Tyrant-Doom Hunter-Carcasses tiny room is FUN on Classic Mode!

[fuel]

So, you answer to this more than 1 month later with "Perhaps you should try it on a lower difficulty first" and wish me good luck. Do you think that I didn't finish it? I don't really see the purpose of your comment. Are you trying to make it seem that you're so good and I'm so bad? I don't need your fake pity or your pity at all.

Perhaps if I'm doing a master level I don't need this advice, and I didn't really ask for it anyway. Perhaps if I ranked the master levels I've played them all and I don't need that type of advice. Perhaps I don't really believe you took 3 hours to finish this master level on nightmare, unless you've played like 2000 hours.

[Furious Fap]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von hellwalker:

So, you answer to this more than 1 month later with "Perhaps you should try it on a lower difficulty first" and wish me good luck. Do you think that I didn't finish it? I don't really see the purpose of your comment. Are you trying to make it seem that you're so good and I'm so bad? I don't need your fake pity or your pity at all.

Perhaps if I'm doing a master level I don't need this advice, and I didn't really ask for it anyway. Perhaps if I ranked the master levels I've played them all and I don't need that type of advice. Perhaps I don't really believe you took 3 hours to finish this master level on nightmare, unless you've played like 2000 hours.

Apologies, I didn't mean to come across as condescending or put you down. If you're doing master levels on Ultraviolence then I'm sure you're pretty good at the game, no matter how long they take you.

I was just saying that the reason this level takes many people such a long time is more the difficulty than the length of the fights (although some fights are pretty long), and that if it was taking me 8 hours I probably would have probably given up temporarily and practiced on something a little easier for awhile or done my first run on Ultraviolence. But that's just me. I get not wanting to lower the difficulty, tho. It was just a suggestion, although it was a pretty obvious one that was also

Idk why I thought you hadn't completed it yet, lol. I was a little tipsy when I replied tbh, hence me also not paying attention to the date. My bad.

Another thing I was trying to get at is that you can't really judge the "true" length of a level by how long it takes you when you're dying repeatedly. It's a pretty long level but it's more that it's a really hard level that makes it take so long. The back and forth between places doesn't add hours to the levels time to complete.

Pretty sure it did take me around 3 hours to complete the first time on nightmare but it might have been a little longer, I didn't time it.
But you're right, I do have a LOT of hours played, lol. I didn't bring up my completion time to brag but more to illustrate how much longer numerous deaths can stretch a run. I'm sure kill speed has a lot to do with it too. and since the fights are longer than average each death does set you back much more time than it would in most other levels. So I can see how it takes some people a really long time. But i can't see it taking much more than 90 minutes with little-to no deaths. Maybe up to 2 hours tops if you kill stuff really slowly. Which is still really long but based on my own completion times I would say it's actually only about 25% longer than other master levels.

Of course, pretty much everyone will die a lot on their first run, so itll take most people more than 2 hours. I'm sure you're far from the only one that took 8 hours, and that doesn't mean you're bad. If anything it shows some serious dedication lol.

But it gets WAY shorter on successive attempts as you start to die less and less, so I don't really think it's too long at all.

[Furious Fap]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Qdude:

I never thought of World Spear being that difficult on my first couple playthroughs. The level that truly broke me was Taras Nabad. The room with the blocked off totem and the room with the blocked off Archviles are just too much for me. Archvile room feels RNG since they spawn stuff in random spots and sometimes none at all. World Spear is my favorite level since the encounters are super varied and you have the hammer. Just focus on using hammer with ice bomb and flamethrower as much as possible and it gets so much easier. I just wish World Spear had the Meathook music attached to the level like Taras Nabad because that's my favorite song, I really dislike the DLC OST.

Agree that the double archive room feels like a bit of an unfair crapshoot without using the BFG cheese strat or at least some superweapons. I think I did it once with no superweapons but it took me like a million tries, so I usually at least use Unmaykr or crucible 1 tyrant and Sometimes I just don't wanna deal with it and use the BFG. even though I usually prefer to avoid using superweapons, I don't really feel bad about using the BFG on such a ridiculous room. especially since Hugo said it's specifically meant to force you to BFG. The coin room is tough but not nearly as ridiculous imo.

Re: super gore nest vs mars core, agree that difficulty is subjective and personal and I think both levels are pretty close in challenge overall. but the reason I think MCML is a little harder is mostly because

1) it has the hardest double marauder fight in the game, at least if you kill the cyber mancubus early and have to contend with both marauders at once.

2) the final battle is probably the longest, most densely populated arena fight in the game besides the final horde mode bonus round. The huge snowy arena with trees, buff totems, and meathook points in WSML might be longer and is definitely harder imo but I can't really think of anything else that rivals the length of MCML's final battle.
I personally find this a lot tougher than SGN MLs final battle, since in sgn you can ice bomb the first 2 archviles right when they spawn and kill them quickly.
In MCML the sheer number of demons makes it easy to get overwhelmed or cornered if you're not killing stuff very quickly and spending as little time on the ground as possible. There's a plethora of tyrants, plus lots of carcasses, shield soldiers, whiplashes, prowlers, several cacos and PEs each spawn in multiple times while you're trying to deal with other ♥♥♥♥, plus during the buff totem wave the 2 mancubi + cyber manc can basically instagib you if they have a clear shot at you for a sec.

I don't usually have too much trouble with this fight anymore after doing it a bunch of times and it's definitely not the hardest fight in the game but I find it more difficult than pretty much anything in SGN ML.

3) sometimes that buff totem fight with the pain elementals, mancubi, and gargoyles can wreck me before I get to the buff totem, especially since buffed gargoyles seem to have really erratic movement and some sort collision jank going on.

However, most of those SGN fights you mentioned are pretty tough too. Never had too much trouble with the marauder tunnel but the tiny room with 2 tyrants, doom hunter, and respawning carcasses can be brutal. It wouldn't be that bad at all without the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ carcasses bopping you around with melee and blocking you at the worst times.

[The Trippy Pyro (MPH! MPH! MPH!)]

world spear feels like the pace just drags its ass. like all three sections could have been their own level.