Mars Core Master Level on nightmare is unreasonable

[ArcaneMaverick]

The arenas just. don't. end. and on high difficulties you really see the flaws in things. It's a great game, but goes too far in a few places.

I saw the lead dev playthrough of Mars Core ML and even he took 3 hours a level, sometimes an hour per arena. And his winning attempt on the last big arena got a lucky unintentional stun on the marauder that saved him while he was aiming at something else.

The amount of times you get stuck on geometry or an enemy that spawned behind you is frankly embarrassing. Competent and basic game physics have you slide when you're against something, not freeze and get stuck. It's no excuse because of how intense the game is. One guy spawning behind you, or just crowding you as you glory kill/chainsaw and holding you up for a mere second can get you killed. That's asinine and an oversight easily fixed. I'll grant the enemy blocking thing I suppose but they needed to fix their geometry and also the verticality detection. Too often I've jumped or double jumped and dashed and been blocked or even damaged (by a pinky of all things). It makes no sense. I'm clearly above the enemy so how are they blocking me.

The enemies charging and shooting shots without line of sight that hit you as soon you round a corner is stupid. I get they input read so they can hit you (which in itself is some cheating bs) but that type of enemies-don't-miss shots were a relic of crappy fps games that made you go hide in a corner and suck your thumb while the strawberry jam goes slowly away. And this game isn't build like that, but they have those cheap shots anyway. And don't take this literally. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time and enemies can miss but it's enough to be a problem. If I catch you in the comments not having read this part and being mr literal, I'm going to call you a moron because that's what you are.

I've teleported behind an enemy via a portal instantly and they didn't even turn around and yet they fired behind themselves to hit me. That's bad no matter how you slice it.

Shield enemies can sometimes be right by you shooting and do no damage. Other times they will drain your health faster than absolutely anything else in the game.

Maurader's definitely suck and bog down any fight unless it's few enemies. I got mobs with aimbot shots, cyber mancubi, whiplashes, and hell knights all coming at me and still have one or two of those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to deal with. And on Mars Core it seems like all other elites infinitely respawn until you kill the marauder. That's egregious or yet another example of the arenas being too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ long. And then a second one spawns. You have very limited ability to fight them amidst all the others. Most mods don't work on them, no microwave, can't even freeze them or use your sword, or preferably freeze them, then use your sword, give us a reason to use the damn thing. Their dog on crack does too much damage or is too quick (should only pick one but they didn't) and always seems to appear behind you and they will have a dog because splash damage will hit them while you attack other enemies to clear them out so you can actually fight the marauder.

And then there's just when the AI bugs out and doesn't pathfind it's way to you properly leading to all kinds of varied problems, mostly still negative for you. Like trying to find the last enemy who got stuck to kill and start the next wave and the mooks still get those aimbot shots off on you, wasting time and resources.

I move and fight and use my tools with the best of them across all genres of games. My repertoire of gaming accomplishments is immense. So when I say it's too hard, it absolutely is. Now fanboys won't like this and will cry and be blind to the flaws of the thing they love and take so personally, but it's the sad truth. Great game up until this point. They pushed it too far, or at least the errors make it unreasonable. Like the following. I could perhaps forgive everything if the next thing wasn't a huge stupid issue.

And having to do master levels in one go, without being able to stop at a checkpoint and come back later, is just disrespectful. There is no excuse for that, I guess except on Ultra-Nightmare. But extra-life mode is just redundant. No reason to spread out unlocks on 4 freaking times you need to play them, two of them basically in one go. It's an unreasonable grind of unnecessary bs and extreme unreasonable difficulty.

I like working for a fight, but I don't like having to study each arena spawns and composition. It's just too much BS and random garbage. You can't see consistent progress.

The game is good but that also means it reaches a level of higher criticism. Especially when it crosses lines of common sense like this one does. Not being able to save and come back later is just abysmal and inexcusable. Respect my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time as a human being. Blind ignorant fanboys will also say, it's optional as if that's an excuse for content to be crappy. You know what else is optional, everything. Is it acceptable to have something poorly made because it's free or optional content? Of course not. Have some standards.

I'll get this out of the way too because I'm sure it will come up. I can't tell a person they aren't in love but that means they cannot have accurate judgement of a thing. I know I'll get a lot of idiots whining get gud like the mindless fanboy manchildren they are. Just because some no-lifers can do it, doesn't mean it's good or well made. Anything bad thing can be done if you waste enough time on it. They have change blindness. They got indoctrinated to the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and can't see or understand otherwise. It happens in every fandom. I'm reminded of the movie Kung Pow. They deliberately trained him wrong, as a joke. Except they don't realize it. Anyway, those folks spent a foolish amount of time learning something flawed and unreasonable and couldn't see the problems in the first place. They are not the metric to measure anything by. This is bad. It's not skill in aiming, moving or shooting, but just the random BS that happens FAR too often. It becomes a game dependent on healing to get through it but it's not really set up for that with the output it gives.

Too close to a project is it's own flaw. Alright, I'm tired and upset I wasted an evening on this garbage.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Hundinger:

Master Levels are supposed to be unreasonable. They are made for people who want extreme challenges. If you aren't one of them, don't play them or play them on a difficulty that's okay for you.

Mars Core is my favorite ML. It's the most visually stunning level in the game, but the campaign version isn't challenging anymore for me. Of course every ML has at least one BS encounter, in this case it's the fog/goo room for me, I hate that ♥♥♥♥.

Your problem is that you don't play them for the challenge, but primarily for unlocking stuff. Of course it's a frustrating experience then. But that's on you. Forget about the stupid skins and either play them because you want to or don't play them.

The devs made it, locked content behind it. How is any of that my fault? Even the lead designer struggled as you conveniently missed that I pointed that out. It's not good nor well made and that much is clear. Especially when I bring up specific problems. Throwing a blanket "get good" on them doesn't help as it doesn't actually address the problems. You have change blindness and might be incapable of recognizing when a thing is bad because you spent too much time close to it. Stockholm syndrome basically.

[Ace]

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

Escrito originalmente por UNBREAKABLE:

it's the easier of the master levels tbh

Doesn't matter. Actually what you're saying is the levels get worse probably from MORE bs reasons. So that's not an endorsement that the game is actually good at these parts.

Learn the fights & practice & you'll beat them, they're suppose to be a challenge.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por OLSSage:

Never ever set foot on The World Spear Master Level. :)

Yep, I didn't buy the dlc because I heard too much controversy from fans about them. Seems to be taken in the wrong direction from the base game from what I have read. And just because something is worse, doesn't make this better. It's still bad.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Ace:

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

Doesn't matter. Actually what you're saying is the levels get worse probably from MORE bs reasons. So that's not an endorsement that the game is actually good at these parts.

Learn the fights & practice & you'll beat them, they're suppose to be a challenge.

Challenge is great! This is stupid and unreasonable and I gave plenty of examples about why it's like that. Even the lead designer sucked at it. Why practice learning a bad thing that's ALSO not entirely skill based? I also shouldn't have to grind out this nonsense. Seriously, 4 times? and 2 of those need to be in one go with one life. That's, say it with me, stupid and unreasonable. It's not hard to ask it to respect my time by allowing me to save at a checkpoint and come back later. It's abysmal pure and simple. You need to avoid change blindness and stockholm syndrome.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Kyller92 AKA Cinos:

Now this is being mad at the next level :squirtyay:

Also, while complaining about janky collisions and lack of saves are fair criticisms (also it's not like the devs ignored the issues but, sometimes, fixing stuff leads to new issues),
complaining that a Master Level (especially in Nightmare) is too hard is ridiculous and, on top of that, preemptively dismissing the potential answers is very... dumb. (because yes, it being optional is a real argument, if you can't deal with it, it's a problem with you, not the game, and certainly not the "fanboys")

Master Levels are supposed to be absurdly hard levels, and that's what we got. It'd be like complaining that Nightmare in Doom 2 is unfair despite it being it the point.
You can't deal with the "grind" and the difficulty ? Fair enough. But don't blame the world because your ego got hit a little too hard...

I explained why they are too hard though. I'm no stranger and indeed have completed tons of hard gaming challenges. These push passed the line of any reasonable sense for the reasons I described. The reasons why they are bad/too hard, are also outside my control. They aren't skill issues.

[Ace]

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

Escrito originalmente por Ace:

Learn the fights & practice & you'll beat them, they're suppose to be a challenge.

Challenge is great! This is stupid and unreasonable and I gave plenty of examples about why it's like that. Even the lead designer sucked at it. Why practice learning a bad thing that's ALSO not entirely skill based? I also shouldn't have to grind out this nonsense. Seriously, 4 times? and 2 of those need to be in one go with one life. That's, say it with me, stupid and unreasonable. It's not hard to ask it to respect my time by allowing me to save at a checkpoint and come back later. It's abysmal pure and simple. You need to avoid change blindness and stockholm syndrome.

Noone is forcing you to grind out anything you can adjust the difficulty & learn the fights & then go back to it at a higher difficulty later on, my first go was on nightmare & after 3 clears i did it on UN & found it alot easier.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por LearnedAndVile:

So what's the point of this thread exactly? You start off venting then you start getting
pre-emptively hostile and argumentative and then you just end with a rant about fanboys.
Are you looking for validation? A place to vent?

Very fair. It's just when I give complaints it's always and inevitable that stupid fanboys come to their favorite things defense and say the same blind things over and over. I'm just tired of dealing with that so I'm getting it out of the way early. The post is what it is and nothing more. I just needed to post something. But I gotta say that the responses here haven't been the usual moronic vitriol from other fandoms. That humbles me a bit because I'm usually right. This is one assumption that I've actually be wrong on. Your response was pretty wise. I wasn't sure I was going to get called on that honestly. Glad you posted, it lets me reflect.

EDIT: nope, my predictions about the fans are coming true now.

[Sar]

Mars Core is one of the easier Master Levels tbqh, maybe you’re not as good as you think you are? Maybe you also aren’t the Golden Standard of Gamer so when the challenge is too hard for you it doesn’t mean it objectively sucks. Just means you need to git gud

[Hundinger]

Quit your whining and move on. These MLs are designed for people who are really into the game and want more of a challenge. It would be almost insulting to the fanbase if they designed them to please people like you who's only goal it is to unlock stuff and then move on to another game. Just accept that they aren't for you and leave. I'm glad that I, after so many hours, still have content that challenges me, and, in case of World Spear, is even too much for me.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Ace:

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

Challenge is great! This is stupid and unreasonable and I gave plenty of examples about why it's like that. Even the lead designer sucked at it. Why practice learning a bad thing that's ALSO not entirely skill based? I also shouldn't have to grind out this nonsense. Seriously, 4 times? and 2 of those need to be in one go with one life. That's, say it with me, stupid and unreasonable. It's not hard to ask it to respect my time by allowing me to save at a checkpoint and come back later. It's abysmal pure and simple. You need to avoid change blindness and stockholm syndrome.

Noone is forcing you to grind out anything you can adjust the difficulty & learn the fights & then go back to it at a higher difficulty later on, my first go was on nightmare & after 3 clears i did it on UN & found it alot easier.

I already talked about the optional thing, that's always been a worthless argument. We'd have much bigger problems if I was forced. But just because I don't play something doesn't mean it's not bad. I care about being valid and honest and authoritative about a subject so I don't like quitting and only getting part of the experience. I know my victories and skills in gaming. This is beyond the pale and I have never said that before about anything in my life. And when the dev sucks at it but still releases it, you know it's a problem.

EDIT: Just realized it's NOT optional in a sense because there is no save. If you start, you must complete it or you have wasted all your time. Great feature in 2020 gaming and completely unreasonable. For 2 of the 4 times that you have to play it to get what you want, you have to grind it out this way. It's disrespectful at BEST. We know this because the other 2 don't' have to be that way since they don't even have the ultranightmare moniker or one life mode gimmick. The other two are normal playthroughs and it still disrespects you.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Hundinger:

Quit your whining and move on. These MLs are designed for people who are really into the game and want more of a challenge. It would be almost insulting to the fanbase if they designed them to please people like you who's only goal it is to unlock stuff and then move on to another game. Just accept that they aren't for you and leave. I'm glad that I, after so many hours, still have content that challenges me, and, in case of World Spear, is even too much for me.

There we go! The blind fanboy comes out!
It's insulting to the fanbase to even put a reward behind them then, if it's so good and worth it for it's own sake. Your love should carry you, but it doesn't and they knew that. Your hypocrisy is right there. Dismissed.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Sar:

Mars Core is one of the easier Master Levels tbqh, maybe you’re not as good as you think you are? Maybe you also aren’t the Golden Standard of Gamer so when the challenge is too hard for you it doesn’t mean it objectively sucks. Just means you need to git gud

Already dealt with this. Thanks for becoming the cliche and proving me right.

[Hundinger]

What do you want with that reward anyway? It's just a skin and a few pictures for your profile. It's nice to unlock them but it's certainly not the most important part of the experience. Either you enjoy the game enough to want to overcome the challenge, even if it takes you a long time, or you don't.

[Sar]

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

I know my victories and skills in gaming.

well now you also know your failures and your weaknesses

[ArcaneMaverick]

Escrito originalmente por Sar:

Escrito originalmente por ArcaneMaverick:

I know my victories and skills in gaming.

well now you also know your failures and your weaknesses

Except I already described why the issues with these levels are beyond the player's control. You didn't read properly. That's on you.