Why do people dislike the Marauder?

[TerrorByte]

I really like the fights with him, they're really fun and challenging and feel like an actual duel.

[chester]

The Marauder has a bug that the devs purposely kept in the game where if another enemy shoots at him, he'll put his shield up. It results in instances where a Marauder will be running at you and is about to flash green, but then gets interrupted by a stray fodder projectile hitting him. Then you have to repeat the cycle of getting him to try and bait out the green light attack.

This isn't too noticeable in the base campaign because he's used relatively well, but there are certain fights where he can be really tedious to kill. A few that stand out to me are the Marauder in the Mars Core Slayer Gate, the Marauder in the Cultist Base Master Level, the first Marauder in the Super Gore Nest Master Level, and the Marauders at the end of the Taras Nabad Master Level.

[o_dey]

Different people, different reasons... some people dislike how he breaks the combat flow, others dislike his broken AI (his friendly fire response for example is actually bug that was _intentionally_ not fixed), a few people aren't good enough at the game, and to some he's so easy to deal with that he's actually a disappointment to them.

[TerrorByte]

Originally posted by chester:

The Marauder has a bug that the devs purposely kept in the game where if another enemy shoots at him, he'll put his shield up. It results in instances where a Marauder will be running at you and is about to flash green, but then gets interrupted by a stray fodder projectile hitting him. Then you have to repeat the cycle of getting him to try and bait out the green light attack.

This isn't too noticeable in the base campaign because he's used relatively well, but there are certain fights where he can be really tedious to kill. A few that stand out to me are the Marauder in the Mars Core Slayer Gate, the Marauder in the Cultist Base Master Level, the first Marauder in the Super Gore Nest Master Level, and the Marauders at the end of the Taras Nabad Master Level.

dunno, for me the slayer gates were difficult cuz of the sheer amount of daemons. But the slayer gates and the master levels were still fun if a bit annoying. (I have the Unmaykr but i've only done two master levels so far, both on nightmare, mars core and i don't remember the other one right now)

Originally posted by o_dey:

Different people, different reasons... some people dislike how he breaks the combat flow, others dislike his broken AI (his friendly fire response for example is actually bug that was _intentionally_ not fixed), a few people aren't good enough at the game, and to some he's so easy to deal with that he's actually a disappointment to them.

All the marauder fights were fun for me and I never even knew about the bug until now. (I do think it makes sense not to fix it, since i (willingly) wouldn't let a projectile hit me.)
I also like how he changes the combat flow, the regular flow is really fun, but fighting him is also really fun and it's nice to change now and again between the two.
The people that are too bad at the game should either git gud and stop blaming the game for their shortcomings or go back to playing bing bing wahoo and drinking soylent.
And I wonder how he could be too easy? I remember seeing some sort of cheese but that's it.

[o_dey]

Originally posted by TerrorByte:

[...] And I wonder how he could be too easy? I remember seeing some sort of cheese but that's it.

Well, it's a matter of perspective, once you're good enough at quick switching and combos, and understand how to manipulate his AI, he becomes super easy to deal with. There's probably 1001 one-cycle combos out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-7Phq3HDB4

[chester]

If you play the Taras Nabad Master Level then you'll see what I mean. The two big Marauder fights of that level showcase the enemy at his absolute worst imo. They have their shields up blocking friendly fire for what feels like more than half of the fight.

The Marauder is great when he works, but he only works in very specific fights.

[TerrorByte]

Originally posted by o_dey:

Originally posted by TerrorByte:

[...] And I wonder how he could be too easy? I remember seeing some sort of cheese but that's it.

Well, it's a matter of perspective, once you're good enough at quick switching and combos, and understand how to manipulate his AI, he becomes super easy to deal with. There's probably 1001 one-cycle combos out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-7Phq3HDB4

i've beaten the entire campaign (except for the final 4 levels) on nightmare and i still dunno how to quick switch lol.

Originally posted by chester:

If you play the Taras Nabad Master Level then you'll see what I mean. The two big Marauder fights of that level showcase the enemy at his absolute worst imo. They have their shields up blocking friendly fire for what feels like more than half of the fight.

The Marauder is great when he works, but he only works in very specific fights.

I'll see about playing the taras nabad master level and yeah I agree, the Marauder isn't something you can just plaster everywhere, you can only use him in areas designed for him specifically.
Edit: muh spelling

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by TerrorByte:

I really like the fights with him, they're really fun and challenging and feel like an actual duel.

Marauder kills the combat pace and is just a bad boring push over.

Marauder would be much better with more movement speed, dodginfg better your shots and using more weapons instead of that crap shield that makes you either bombard everything around him (killing other demons and the Marauder himself in the process) or makes you attack "at the right moment", what after the first few Marauder encounters is just a "ah crap, here we go again" moment.

Marauder is just boring and with a poor boring mechanic and can even be completely ignored in many situations.

[UNBREAKABLE]

The friendly fire bug from demons triggering the shield is literally the one thing I don't like about him. If that wasn't in the game he would be 100% more predictable and more fun to fight than he is already, but Hugo is a troll and left it in on purpose specifically to keep him less predictable. I think even the last set of master levels started abusing it on purpose, you got mecha zombies lighting up his back in narrow rooms so that so he never goes green.

Though technically the idea behind the Marauder is you're supposed to kill him last, so in design context it makes sense you get rid of the demons triggering his shield, but leaving that in the game with infinitely respawning fodder is kind of silly IMO.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

The friendly fire bug from demons triggering the shield is literally the one thing I don't like about him. If that wasn't in the game he would be 100% more predictable and more fun to fight than he is already, but Hugo is a troll and left it in on purpose specifically to keep him less predictable. I think even the last set of master levels started abusing it on purpose, you got mecha zombies lighting up his back in narrow rooms so that so he never goes green.

Though technically the idea behind the Marauder is you're supposed to kill him last, so in design context it makes sense you get rid of the demons triggering his shield, but leaving that in the game with infinitely respawning fodder is kind of silly IMO.

Let said demons near him, bazooka, flamethrower, freeze and explosive grenades around him, you will suddenly notice the Marauder is gone and "maybe" there are still demons around where he was/is and if the Marauder still alive the "shield mechanic" to shoot the Marauder when his eyes glow will be needed to be performed less times or only once.

I did not like the first Marauder encounter because of this silly mechanic (because I did not expect such a thing in a DOOM game) and after learning how to deal with it properly on the first few encounters, including the very first one on my very first run of the game, well . . . I still did not enjoy 1 bit and I find it an utter shame the final boss of the second DLC is just . . a glorified and more coward Marauder (yes, I see the Marauder as just a coward demon hidding behind a shield but the final boss is the most coward and biggest most boring push over of them all . . the bossfight is just tedious and I was there, fighting stage after stage expecting the boss fight . . . to get to "proper combat status" . . . but no, it was just that crap boring lame useless mechanic that n0ot only is not a challenge is completely off the expected pace of the game, totally anti climatic, even more considering THAT F###ng THING IS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSION OF YOU!!!! and it turns out to be a coward shadow of the player and the perfect example why the game dont need a shield (I know it have the chaingun shield . . . that I never use, I use any other option and keep myself moving dodging and avoiding melee and projectile attacks, AS THE COMBAT PACE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, NOT HIDDING BEHIND A SHIELD !!!!).

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

I think it is kind of awesome but I wish there would be more flavors of the same enemy, I was going through the concept art and there are different variants that look cool including one that is heavy and looks like the Doom Slayer.

I think people got used to bullet sponges so an enemy that somewhat fights back is unusual to them and you know, they will seethe, mald and cope and ultimately blame the game. The sad thing is that Western devs are more inclined to listen to cry babies than to tell the community to suck it up. From Soft never backed down and people bought Elden Ring anyways.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

The friendly fire bug from demons triggering the shield is literally the one thing I don't like about him. If that wasn't in the game he would be 100% more predictable and more fun to fight than he is already, but Hugo is a troll and left it in on purpose specifically to keep him less predictable. I think even the last set of master levels started abusing it on purpose, you got mecha zombies lighting up his back in narrow rooms so that so he never goes green.

Though technically the idea behind the Marauder is you're supposed to kill him last, so in design context it makes sense you get rid of the demons triggering his shield, but leaving that in the game with infinitely respawning fodder is kind of silly IMO.

Let said demons near him, bazooka, flamethrower, freeze and explosive grenades around him, you will suddenly notice the Marauder is gone and "maybe" there are still demons around where he was/is and if the Marauder still alive the "shield mechanic" to shoot the Marauder when his eyes glow will be needed to be performed less times or only once.

I did not like the first Marauder encounter because of this silly mechanic (because I did not expect such a thing in a DOOM game) and after learning how to deal with it properly on the first few encounters, including the very first one on my very first run of the game, well . . . I still did not enjoy 1 bit and I find it an utter shame the final boss of the second DLC is just . . a glorified and more coward Marauder (yes, I see the Marauder as just a coward demon hidding behind a shield but the final boss is the most coward and biggest most boring push over of them all . . the bossfight is just tedious and I was there, fighting stage after stage expecting the boss fight . . . to get to "proper combat status" . . . but no, it was just that crap boring lame useless mechanic that n0ot only is not a challenge is completely off the expected pace of the game, totally anti climatic, even more considering THAT F###ng THING IS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSION OF YOU!!!! and it turns out to be a coward shadow of the player and the perfect example why the game dont need a shield (I know it have the chaingun shield . . . that I never use, I use any other option and keep myself moving dodging and avoiding melee and projectile attacks, AS THE COMBAT PACE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, NOT HIDDING BEHIND A SHIELD !!!!).

That was a painful read but you never used the turret shield? The bash was hella broken to the point of being a clutch in UN.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Knud den Store 🧙‍♂:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Let said demons near him, bazooka, flamethrower, freeze and explosive grenades around him, you will suddenly notice the Marauder is gone and "maybe" there are still demons around where he was/is and if the Marauder still alive the "shield mechanic" to shoot the Marauder when his eyes glow will be needed to be performed less times or only once.

I did not like the first Marauder encounter because of this silly mechanic (because I did not expect such a thing in a DOOM game) and after learning how to deal with it properly on the first few encounters, including the very first one on my very first run of the game, well . . . I still did not enjoy 1 bit and I find it an utter shame the final boss of the second DLC is just . . a glorified and more coward Marauder (yes, I see the Marauder as just a coward demon hidding behind a shield but the final boss is the most coward and biggest most boring push over of them all . . the bossfight is just tedious and I was there, fighting stage after stage expecting the boss fight . . . to get to "proper combat status" . . . but no, it was just that crap boring lame useless mechanic that n0ot only is not a challenge is completely off the expected pace of the game, totally anti climatic, even more considering THAT F###ng THING IS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSION OF YOU!!!! and it turns out to be a coward shadow of the player and the perfect example why the game dont need a shield (I know it have the chaingun shield . . . that I never use, I use any other option and keep myself moving dodging and avoiding melee and projectile attacks, AS THE COMBAT PACE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, NOT HIDDING BEHIND A SHIELD !!!!).

That was a painful read but you never used the turret shield? The bash was hella broken to the point of being a clutch in UN.

I only did the game at Nightmare, not UN because I do play it more casually, still I dont know if I would even if I had the patience to do no death run.
I dont like the shield but I really dont like the Marauders and despise the final boss of second DLC.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Knud den Store 🧙‍♂:

I think it is kind of awesome but I wish there would be more flavors of the same enemy, I was going through the concept art and there are different variants that look cool including one that is heavy and looks like the Doom Slayer.

I think people got used to bullet sponges so an enemy that somewhat fights back is unusual to them and you know, they will seethe, mald and cope and ultimately blame the game. The sad thing is that Western devs are more inclined to listen to cry babies than to tell the community to suck it up. From Soft never backed down and people bought Elden Ring anyways.

If the Marauder was a "fight back" but it is just a "red/green light game" that may be "good gameplay for some (or many) but is bad gameplay to me.
I really would like if the Marauders had more of an arsenal and could move better through the arenas, even being faster than they are + double jump, double or triple dash midair and good air maneuvering, making it more of a real hunter and trouble instead of just running chasing you and using that auto-shield forcing you to either ignore the Marauder (what is not hard) to be the last enemy the player face, bombard everything around the Marauder (with chances of killing the Marauder with the explosions before all demons get killed) or kill the Marauder in a red/green light mini-game as first enemy or midway through the combat, what breaks the combat flow anyway.

[TerrorByte]

Originally posted by Knud den Store 🧙‍♂:

I think it is kind of awesome but I wish there would be more flavors of the same enemy, I was going through the concept art and there are different variants that look cool including one that is heavy and looks like the Doom Slayer.

I think people got used to bullet sponges so an enemy that somewhat fights back is unusual to them and you know, they will seethe, mald and cope and ultimately blame the game. The sad thing is that Western devs are more inclined to listen to cry babies than to tell the community to suck it up. From Soft never backed down and people bought Elden Ring anyways.

Yeah they should've made multiple variants of him.
I'm sick of western games being made for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, go play bing bing wahoo or git gud. DOOM eternal is pretty based cuz they refused to make the game for game journalists, I only wish they didn't add the sentinel armour. I wanna play a game, not watch a movie.

Originally posted by Knud den Store 🧙‍♂:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Let said demons near him, bazooka, flamethrower, freeze and explosive grenades around him, you will suddenly notice the Marauder is gone and "maybe" there are still demons around where he was/is and if the Marauder still alive the "shield mechanic" to shoot the Marauder when his eyes glow will be needed to be performed less times or only once.

I did not like the first Marauder encounter because of this silly mechanic (because I did not expect such a thing in a DOOM game) and after learning how to deal with it properly on the first few encounters, including the very first one on my very first run of the game, well . . . I still did not enjoy 1 bit and I find it an utter shame the final boss of the second DLC is just . . a glorified and more coward Marauder (yes, I see the Marauder as just a coward demon hidding behind a shield but the final boss is the most coward and biggest most boring push over of them all . . the bossfight is just tedious and I was there, fighting stage after stage expecting the boss fight . . . to get to "proper combat status" . . . but no, it was just that crap boring lame useless mechanic that n0ot only is not a challenge is completely off the expected pace of the game, totally anti climatic, even more considering THAT F###ng THING IS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSION OF YOU!!!! and it turns out to be a coward shadow of the player and the perfect example why the game dont need a shield (I know it have the chaingun shield . . . that I never use, I use any other option and keep myself moving dodging and avoiding melee and projectile attacks, AS THE COMBAT PACE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, NOT HIDDING BEHIND A SHIELD !!!!).

That was a painful read but you never used the turret shield? The bash was hella broken to the point of being a clutch in UN.

Also the minigun shield is so OP it's ridiculous.

[chester]

If I were to make changes to the Marauder, I'd remove the friendly fire bug but make him significantly more aggressive to compensate. Faster movement speed, significantly faster axe throw, less time to react to his green light attack, and a wolf that gets summoned on regular intervals rather than being triggered by the shield.

Additionally, I think it would be cool if there were more intended ways to circumvent needing to wait for the green light attack to kill him. There's a few ways, but for the most part they're all exploits and were never intentional. Like if you were able to falter him with remote det/frag grenades for a small attack opening for example. Baiting him into turning his back to you while his shield is up for an opening is a ton of fun, but the only way you can do this is with a lock on burst from above, and it was never meant to be an intentional way to kill him. You used to be able to do this with an ice bomb over his head, but they patched it out. It admittedly trivialized him too much, but I wish they they nerfed it instead of outright removing it.