The stark reality of Denuvo

[Trilkin]

This is a lengthy one, so here's the tl;dr: Stop ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Denuvo. Denuvo isn't the issue and has never actually been the issue in any cases 'cited' to be the issue. Stop blindly repeating uninformed Reddit ♥♥♥♥. The problem is the devs using tools incorrectly and people being uneducated about what's actually on their computer.

I know it's cool to hate DRM of any sort, but a few things about the software you're hating. Note: I am not a Denuvo dev, even though I know it's also cool to call people shills now. I've just read a lot of the technical documentation about it, and what exactly the software does.

1) It's not 'malware' of any sort. It does CRC on files as well as sanity checking in RAM to make sure the game isn't being tampered with. That's all Denuvo really does at heart.

The scare over Denuvo being spyware had to do with some developers incorrectly implementing it and scanning entire parts of a file system. This doesn't go to Denuvo's devs; this goes to the game's devs and again - it sends checksums, not meaningful data anyway. It DOES, however, cause massive performance problems when incorrectly implemented, but that is on the game dev - not Denuvo itself. Like any tool, if it's misused, you break a finger.

2) There's a reason it's kernel-level.

It's easy to use injection methods to completely bypass anything that simply runs as a piece of elevated software. It's why Riot is using similar technology for Valorant (and potentially the rest of their games in the future.) As the devs themselves say: hackers are smart. It's an arm's race. At kernel level, it's very hard to obfuscate injection attempts. Not impossible, but hard. As work continues, false positives become less of a thing. Again: this isn't malware stealing your gigabytes. It's doing the same thing all anti-cheat does, just at a different level of privilege.

3) Denuvo itself doesn't cause performance issues.

Interactions with software on your computer are what cause performance issues. Anti-malware suites are notorious with absolutely tanking your performance while they're trying to figure out what's running in the background. MHW had a related issue with Windows Defender recently which got resolved. Most of these anti-malware packages, however, simply produce false positives and/or are not updated, so the Denuvo devs can't do a whole lot about that. Another issue that often arises is the same as point 1: devs improperly integrating Denuvo into their software. To use MHW as an example, it had its anti-tamper software (not Denuvo) regularly check every single archive in the installation folder at regular intervals. This utterly destroyed performance for most people.

4) Denuvo isn't actually what gets cracked in the case of piracy.

This one's easy: people find workarounds and exploits in the game itself that allow it to simply bypass Denuvo from even starting. Again: see point 1. Doom Eternal is a shining example of this. What happened? Bethesda had DRM-free executables shipped with the game itself. WOOPS!


If you want to get up in arms at the devs, do so because they're told to patch something in without having enough time to test it or otherwise make boneheaded mistakes due to pressure or other factors. Publishers and developers have the right to defend the integrity of their games' online experiences as well as try to prevent piracy for as long as they can. It's a losing battle, but even securing the first week of guaranteed sales makes it worth it for them. Denuvo itself isn't the issue. It's an easy scapegoat because nobody really actually knows what they're talking about and just blindly parrot Reddit posts from people equally as uninformed, but the ire really should be on the publisher for entirely different reasons.

Also, whoever was complaining about marauders being nerfed, it was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ multiplayer-only change stop being stupid, read the patch notes.

I love you.

[Mikoto]

Wow, you are so wrong on literally everything.

[~Neon Doom~]

Quote:


At best, Denuvo would do absolutely nothing for you if you’re a player who legitimately bought the game. At worst, Denuvo causes performance problems and means you need a more expensive video card and faster CPU to play the latest games. It worsens the experience for paying customers. People with lower-end hardware take the brunt of the damage, as higher-end gaming PCs can power through the problems and still deliver very playable performance.
For the sake of argument, let’s say Denuvo is right, and that Denuvo itself isn’t a problem. That would mean game developers often cause problems when adding Denuvo to their games. So maybe the problem is game developers not understanding Denuvo properly. But, either way, that’s a worse experience for gamers.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like game developers aren’t going to stop using Denuvo any time soon. Barring a serious boycott of games that include Denuvo—something that pops up in the occasional negative Steam review, but doesn’t seem like a threat game developers are worried about—game developers think they’ll make more money by including Denuvo, and they may be right.
Hopefully, a future version of Denuvo or another competing anti-piracy program can accomplish the same goals for developers while being lighter on resources.


The irony in this quote that relates to the doom eternal conflict is so good its almost to good to be true...

[Dave]

Request denied. I'll continue to complain about bundled malware until the malware stops being bundled in games.

[Kleerex]

I would like to know how many of those complaining about Denuvo jumped to PC platform from consoles in 2013, because they act like they own the game when they pay for it. Let me help you with this one:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=software+licensing

You don't own the game, you pay for the license to use it, and software developer still retains rights to modify software as they see fit.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Sheogorath:

I would like to know how many of those complaining about Denuvo jumped to PC platform from consoles in 2013, because they act like they own the game when they pay for it. Let me help you with this one:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=software+licensing

You don't own the game, you pay for the license to use it, and software developer still retains rights to modify software as they see fit.

Doesn't mean it's right.

[Kleerex]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Doesn't mean it's right.

It's been this way for the past 30+ years.

[ThatsGolden]

You're mixing up Denuvo Anti-Tamper and Denuvo Anti-Cheat, they are two entirely separate entities.

[ROSS_Ratibor]

Originally posted by Sheogorath:

I would like to know how many of those complaining about Denuvo jumped to PC platform from consoles in 2013, because they act like they own the game when they pay for it. Let me help you with this one:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=software+licensing

You don't own the game, you pay for the license to use it, and software developer still retains rights to modify software as they see fit.

Well, then we will refund the money, and if the computer is damaged by the program to sue. Really?

[mckracken]

any programm that tampers with the kernel is a prime invitation for hackers

[Sumo]

I like this post. I've seen enough hate crowds in my years on the internet to not get caught up in them. It's sickening. I don't think that the worrying is unwarranted, but it would be better if people could just remain neutrally charged towards these things. The world would be a better place for it.

[mrtnptrs]

Originally posted by Spade:

I like this post. I've seen enough hate crowds in my years on the internet to not get caught up in them. It's sickening. I don't think that the worrying is unwarranted, but it would be better if people could just remain neutrally charged towards these things. The world would be a better place for it.

Indeed, that is exactly what I was thinking! :)

[mrtnptrs]

Originally posted by mckracken:

any programm that tampers with the kernel is a prime invitation for hackers

Are you now gonna remove other anti-cheat solutions like BattlEye and Easy anti-cheat as well? And your anti-virus software too? Because they all use kernel mode drivers. These kind of software don't "tamper" with the kernel, but only communicate with it. I suspect you don't even truely know what the kernel really is.... These kernel mode drivers can be abused by virusses or a hacker indeed, but the chance of that happening is really small + Denuvo build in an update mechanism to fix secuirity-issues very fast + Denuvo set up a bug-bounty program for this to find almost all secuirity leaks possible. So, Irdeta/Denuvo is doing everything to keep it as secure as possible. Why do you still find it sooooooooooo scary?

[Perryn ペリン]

"3) Denuvo itself doesn't cause performance issues."

lol this has been proven otherwise many many MANY times by this point

[lackesis]

Originally posted by Nessa:

"3) Denuvo itself doesn't cause performance issues."

lol this has been proven otherwise many many MANY times by this point

If dev implement it correctly, actually i got better performance with this update.

[mrtnptrs]

Originally posted by Nessa:

"3) Denuvo itself doesn't cause performance issues."

lol this has been proven otherwise many many MANY times by this point

Well, the non-Denuvo variant of the release version of this game had the practically the same performance as with Denuvo, so.... At least for this implementation, it doesn't cause performance issues.