Mick Gordon's full statement on the OST situation

[Rampy470]

https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce

[Grampire]

CzechKronner eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

I read the entire statement and there is not a shred of actual evidence aside from referencing events that we already know happened - or itself. I'm also fully aware that if this has devolved into a legal battle we likely won't get any actual evidence.

Someone said this statement was written with the assistance of lawyers - I agree. This reads like a PR stunt to put pressure on the other side when they're not getting the response they want - it's extremely careful not to name anyone other than Marty nor show any sensitive, actual information or evidence.

It's a clear jab to try and elicit attention and a response, but it's extremely careful in the sense that it doesn't actually produce any real evidence - the sort of evidence that's probably involved in the lawsuit and would likely be "tainted" if it were paraded on the internet. He routinely mentions the anguish he went through making this album - the sort of harrowing experience that's oppressive and sympathetic. Possibly true - his work sounded good here so who am I to judge? - but this is the sort of preamble you serve up when you're fishing for a punitive award. This simply reeks of the next step in a legal battle to get the other side to concede, except now Mick and is asking for the public to weigh in. Not quite sure how I feel about that, and not sure why it's entirely necessary - in this industry you're only as good as your last gig it seems.

I'm also highly, highly skeptical of the "we'd have had a deal if he'd have just taken the reddit post down." ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. The damage was done by the Reddit post already and it was out there - it could've been up for 10 minutes and it wouldn't have mattered; anyone who'd want to see it from now until the end of time would be able to do so. If that's the sticking point here then I'm calling this whole thing out for the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it is. There's no way anyone's that thin skinned - or unaware of how the internet works - to truly believe that pulling a Reddit post down that's been up for over a year will have a material impact on your reputation.

The truth is never black or white. I think Marty Stratton is probably a colossal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and narcissist - I don't doubt someone who's a project manager that makes video games is a adderall-addled mess of a human being with zero patience or apathy for anything other than results.

I could be completely wrong here, but this is the way it reads to me. Maybe it's just him trying to clear his reputation. Maybe it's that innocuous.

I don't really feel much different having read this, which feels weird. I was personally over this whole thing and ready to see what Mick does next - he is talented, he'll get more work, that's beyond question. But all he's done here is remind me of this issue and make me question his motives in doing so. Disagreements like this happen all the time in entertainment and I truly doubt this was a deathknell for his career - I think the smarter play would've been to move on. But who am I to argue - it's his decision. Best of luck either way.

Well it does clearly prove Marty lied in his open letter reddit post. That's irrefutable.

Of course it's PR and lawyer approved. Mick has no other options.

Except he didn't really prove that Marty lied. He perhaps proved that Marty had contracted Mossholder as a contingency plan for months in case something happened with Mick. Mick proved he knew nothing about it. That doesn't mean Marty lied.

Marty may have made the decision to pull in Mossholder's work "at the last second" where he previously had no intention of using his work. The fact Mick thinks Marty lied is a bit of a smoking gun, and confusing a ♥♥♥♥ move with a lie is the sort of misrepresentation you'd capitalize on in a lawsuit.

And on Marty's behalf, this is easily explained. If anything, it shows that Marty, who has worked with Mick before, was aware of the "risk and uncertainty" he claims Mick brought to the project and had a plan B in the queue. So it's consistent with Marty's message about Mick.

[CzechKronner]

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Except he didn't really prove that Marty lied. He perhaps proved that Marty had contracted Mossholder as a contingency plan for months in case something happened with Mick. Mick proved he knew nothing about it. That doesn't mean Marty lied.

Marty may have made the decision to pull in Mossholder's work "at the last second" where he previously had no intention of using his work. The fact Mick thinks Marty lied is a bit of a smoking gun, and confusing a ♥♥♥♥ move with a lie is the sort of misrepresentation you'd capitalize on in a lawsuit.

And on Marty's behalf, this is easily explained. If anything, it shows that Marty, who has worked with Mick before, was aware of the "risk and uncertainty" he claims Mick brought to the project and had a plan B in the queue. So it's consistent with Marty's message about Mick.

Of course it means Marty lied. In his letter Marty makes claims that are proven untrue by hard evidence.

The timeline Marty put forward is simply a lie.

Marty's comments regarding bricked versions of in game songs have also been proven untrue.

There's just too much evidence to refute. It's very clear Marty was not sincere in his open letter.

Of course there's two sides to every story so I'm not quite prepared to believe everything Mick says but at the very least his response shows that Marty is a poor project manager and treats some of his staff like crap.

[ShadowNate]

They absolutely did Mick Gordon wrong here. Perhaps his suggestions on work goals re-organization early on might not have worked, but Marty, the manager, could have been more flexible given the arguments and how it was already going.

They decided to be rigid with the schedule and not responsive, and then the garbage fire was ensured with promising an OST with no contract in place, using unpaid work that they had rejected, starting a backup plan for the OST with amateuristic mixes of Mick's tracks for the game (unpaid ones too).

It's sad to read in Mick's statement that all this could have been avoided or corrected many many times over, from early on to even after communication broke down and issues seemed to have moved beyond repair (the poor OST was released, the ridiculous reddit post was up and death threats had reached Mick).

Such a shame it went like that. What a trash fire.

[Grampire]

CzechKronner eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Except he didn't really prove that Marty lied. He perhaps proved that Marty had contracted Mossholder as a contingency plan for months in case something happened with Mick. Mick proved he knew nothing about it. That doesn't mean Marty lied.

Marty may have made the decision to pull in Mossholder's work "at the last second" where he previously had no intention of using his work. The fact Mick thinks Marty lied is a bit of a smoking gun, and confusing a ♥♥♥♥ move with a lie is the sort of misrepresentation you'd capitalize on in a lawsuit.

And on Marty's behalf, this is easily explained. If anything, it shows that Marty, who has worked with Mick before, was aware of the "risk and uncertainty" he claims Mick brought to the project and had a plan B in the queue. So it's consistent with Marty's message about Mick.

Of course it means Marty lied. In his letter Marty makes claims that are proven untrue by hard evidence.

The timeline Marty put forward is simply a lie.

Marty's comments regarding bricked versions of in game songs have also been proven untrue.

There's just too much evidence to refute. It's very clear Marty was not sincere in his open letter.

Of course there's two sides to every story so I'm not quite prepared to believe everything Mick says but at the very least his response shows that Marty is a poor project manager and treats some of his staff like crap.

I'm just not convinced. It's too one-sided- there's zero personal accountability on either side and I can't trust either of them.

Why wasn't the contract for the OST signed earlier? Was it under negotiation? Mick says he asked Marty for a contract for the OST - was it that simple? "Hey Marty, send me a contract so I can get started?" Think so?

Likely not. We don't know what Mick was asking for on that contract, how he was asking for it, anything. The negotiations are a black box and Mick mentions nothing about how reasonable his ask is aside from timeline constraints. There's simply more to it than that one dimension which we're being asked to decide on solely.

We do know from the unhighlighted text that id/Beth/Marty were aware of "negotiations" prior to when they got the contract over. It sounds to me like they were exploring other options and waited until they'd exhausted them, for whatever reason.

There's simply no way you ignore something as high profile as the soundtrack for a follow up to 2016, which was at least partially defined by their OST. I absolutely do not buy that this was a case of mismanagement - this was intentional and there's a reason it was that we're not being told.

Either Marty is a colossal narcissist who was willing to torpedo his own project with a negative PR event or were not getting important details, because it simply doesn't add up. I guess it's up to us to decide whether the former or latter is more plausible.

[look at the clown]

Gάrάnd eredeti hozzászólása:

I gotta give Mick +RESPECT for suggesting he's willing to rework the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is the OST if Bethesda gave Marty the pink slip 🤣👍

i don't want him to rework anything

i don't want him anywhere near the next doom game, either

[CzechKronner]

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm just not convinced. It's too one-sided- there's zero personal accountability on either side and I can't trust either of them.

Why wasn't the contract for the OST signed earlier? Was it under negotiation? Mick says he asked Marty for a contract for the OST - was it that simple? "Hey Marty, send me a contract so I can get started?" Think so?

Likely not. We don't know what Mick was asking for on that contract, how he was asking for it, anything. The negotiations are a black box and Mick mentions nothing about how reasonable his ask is aside from timeline constraints. There's simply more to it than that one dimension which we're being asked to decide on solely.

We do know from the unhighlighted text that id/Beth/Marty were aware of "negotiations" prior to when they got the contract over. It sounds to me like they were exploring other options and waited until they'd exhausted them, for whatever reason.

There's simply no way you ignore something as high profile as the soundtrack for a follow up to 2016, which was at least partially defined by their OST. I absolutely do not buy that this was a case of mismanagement - this was intentional and there's a reason it was that we're not being told.

Either Marty is a colossal narcissist who was willing to torpedo his own project with a negative PR event or were not getting important details, because it simply doesn't add up. I guess it's up to us to decide whether the former or latter is more plausible.

Agreed mostly. But regarding negotiations, Mick and Bethesda, without any input from Marty, agreed on the OST deal. That's pretty telling. It's very much possible Marty wanted to save costs by mixing the OST internally. That would make some sense, albeit it's incredibly short sighted.

There's just too much evidence showing Marty acted like a jerk to Mick, for whatever reason.

[Shibby]

UNBREAKABLE eredeti hozzászólása:

Damn, Mick really came in swinging in the most professional way possible and absolutely had a lawyer help him write this. Makes sense though since Bethesda likely has let this drag on forever while both Mick's personal and professional reputation was tarnished while still not getting the money he was owed. 6 figure sum offered to shut up about it? Good on him for rejecting that in favor of the truth, Marty was also clearly lying about some things like how Chad taking over was not a last minute choice from meta data alone on the music.

I've always liked Marty too, but I guess that's what you turn into eventually when you're with a company so long and call the shots to satisfy your management. Seems like some ego was involved too and he got upset after mods tried to remove his statement and then even got lawyers involved.

Reviews are already tanking as well. It sucks because you know many people that worked on this game were passionate about it so it sucks this is what their work is going to be remembered for.

Gάrάnd eredeti hozzászólása:

When it's all said and done, DOOM will never be the same without Mick Gordon.

Thanks, Gordon. Hope you get better gigs. o7

I still stand that TAG Music is mid.

Well that's a bit dramatic since he was only involved on a couple entries of the series. Doom music hasn't been the same without Bobby Prince either but most people got over that, yes?

Levy and Andrew still absolutely killed it for being contracted last minute for the DLC, some of their tracks are the most "Doom" music we've had since classic while also borrowing stuff from Mick such as demonic choirs. I'm hoping they got paid what they're owed though since they never had an official release of their work either.

Bobby Prince ripped off other artists and who would have thought changing songs just enough to not be illegal will still result in good music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsgMo6Jm2X0

[Grampire]

CzechKronner eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm just not convinced. It's too one-sided- there's zero personal accountability on either side and I can't trust either of them.

Why wasn't the contract for the OST signed earlier? Was it under negotiation? Mick says he asked Marty for a contract for the OST - was it that simple? "Hey Marty, send me a contract so I can get started?" Think so?

Likely not. We don't know what Mick was asking for on that contract, how he was asking for it, anything. The negotiations are a black box and Mick mentions nothing about how reasonable his ask is aside from timeline constraints. There's simply more to it than that one dimension which we're being asked to decide on solely.

We do know from the unhighlighted text that id/Beth/Marty were aware of "negotiations" prior to when they got the contract over. It sounds to me like they were exploring other options and waited until they'd exhausted them, for whatever reason.

There's simply no way you ignore something as high profile as the soundtrack for a follow up to 2016, which was at least partially defined by their OST. I absolutely do not buy that this was a case of mismanagement - this was intentional and there's a reason it was that we're not being told.

Either Marty is a colossal narcissist who was willing to torpedo his own project with a negative PR event or were not getting important details, because it simply doesn't add up. I guess it's up to us to decide whether the former or latter is more plausible.

Agreed mostly. But regarding negotiations, Mick and Bethesda, without any input from Marty, agreed on the OST deal. That's pretty telling. It's very much possible Marty wanted to save costs by mixing the OST internally. That would make some sense, albeit it's incredibly short sighted.

There's just too much evidence showing Marty acted like a jerk to Mick, for whatever reason.

I'm on the same page here, and anyone who's ever negotiated a contract knows that ego and indignation can cloud judgement on what's best for the project and your own team. Someone asks for more or offers less than you feel is right? That gets emotional - real fast.

Marty appears to have acted like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ - no question - but there's zero evidence to suggest Mick wasn't being one also. And neither of them are going to present themselves as such, so until we hear from a fly on the wall we're not likely to ever get the real picture here.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

CzechKronner eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Except he didn't really prove that Marty lied. He perhaps proved that Marty had contracted Mossholder as a contingency plan for months in case something happened with Mick. Mick proved he knew nothing about it. That doesn't mean Marty lied.

Marty may have made the decision to pull in Mossholder's work "at the last second" where he previously had no intention of using his work. The fact Mick thinks Marty lied is a bit of a smoking gun, and confusing a ♥♥♥♥ move with a lie is the sort of misrepresentation you'd capitalize on in a lawsuit.

And on Marty's behalf, this is easily explained. If anything, it shows that Marty, who has worked with Mick before, was aware of the "risk and uncertainty" he claims Mick brought to the project and had a plan B in the queue. So it's consistent with Marty's message about Mick.

Of course it means Marty lied. In his letter Marty makes claims that are proven untrue by hard evidence.

The timeline Marty put forward is simply a lie.

Marty's comments regarding bricked versions of in game songs have also been proven untrue.

There's just too much evidence to refute. It's very clear Marty was not sincere in his open letter.

Of course there's two sides to every story so I'm not quite prepared to believe everything Mick says but at the very least his response shows that Marty is a poor project manager and treats some of his staff like crap.

Marty credibility died when he offered Mick hush money.
At least on that part he should be clear but at this point it is just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but Mick evidence that Id remixed 12 songs to create 42 tracks is concrete.

HOWEVER...
Does anyone know how many tracks did Mick actually compose? Wasn't he given a two year timeframe, how does that work?

[Grampire]

Knud den Store 🧙‍♂ eredeti hozzászólása:

CzechKronner eredeti hozzászólása:

Of course it means Marty lied. In his letter Marty makes claims that are proven untrue by hard evidence.

The timeline Marty put forward is simply a lie.

Marty's comments regarding bricked versions of in game songs have also been proven untrue.

There's just too much evidence to refute. It's very clear Marty was not sincere in his open letter.

Of course there's two sides to every story so I'm not quite prepared to believe everything Mick says but at the very least his response shows that Marty is a poor project manager and treats some of his staff like crap.

Marty credibility died when he offered Mick hush money.
At least on that part he should be clear but at this point it is just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but Mick evidence that Id remixed 12 songs to create 42 tracks is concrete.

HOWEVER...
Does anyone know how many tracks did Mick actually compose? Wasn't he given a two year timeframe, how does that work?

Putting an NDA clause on a contract settlement is pretty typical, especially when there's bad blood and a complaint. You can all that "hush money" if you want, but it's the same reason most contractors who do work for public companies like this don't often disclose how much they were paid.

And if that "6 figure offer" were what Mick wanted all along then why did Mick reject it. Oh, right, because he wanted the Reddit post taken down - because 8 months after the fact that totally matters and isn't everywhere anyways.

The problem here is Marty/Mick idol worshipping - they say something and the fans are so cucked they don't approach it with any skepticism. We knew when Marty released his statement that it didn't add up, but apparently now Mick's is gospel? Get real and stop falling for this ♥♥♥♥.

[Meat Man (Alfons)]

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Knud den Store 🧙‍♂ eredeti hozzászólása:

Marty credibility died when he offered Mick hush money.
At least on that part he should be clear but at this point it is just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but Mick evidence that Id remixed 12 songs to create 42 tracks is concrete.

HOWEVER...
Does anyone know how many tracks did Mick actually compose? Wasn't he given a two year timeframe, how does that work?

Putting an NDA clause on a contract settlement is pretty typical, especially when there's bad blood and a complaint. You can all that "hush money" if you want, but it's the same reason most contractors who do work for public companies like this don't often disclose how much they were paid.

And if that "6 figure offer" were what Mick wanted all along then why did Mick reject it. Oh, right, because he wanted the Reddit post taken down - because 8 months after the fact that totally matters and isn't everywhere anyways.

The problem here is Marty/Mick idol worshipping - they say something and the fans are so cucked they don't approach it with any skepticism. We knew when Marty released his statement that it didn't add up, but apparently now Mick's is gospel? Get real and stop falling for this ♥♥♥♥.

Why are we acting like terrible workplace events like this should be solved with money to hush about the problem

[Shibby]

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Knud den Store 🧙‍♂ eredeti hozzászólása:

Marty credibility died when he offered Mick hush money.
At least on that part he should be clear but at this point it is just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but Mick evidence that Id remixed 12 songs to create 42 tracks is concrete.

HOWEVER...
Does anyone know how many tracks did Mick actually compose? Wasn't he given a two year timeframe, how does that work?

Putting an NDA clause on a contract settlement is pretty typical, especially when there's bad blood and a complaint. You can all that "hush money" if you want, but it's the same reason most contractors who do work for public companies like this don't often disclose how much they were paid.

And if that "6 figure offer" were what Mick wanted all along then why did Mick reject it. Oh, right, because he wanted the Reddit post taken down - because 8 months after the fact that totally matters and isn't everywhere anyways.

The problem here is Marty/Mick idol worshipping - they say something and the fans are so cucked they don't approach it with any skepticism. We knew when Marty released his statement that it didn't add up, but apparently now Mick's is gospel? Get real and stop falling for this ♥♥♥♥.

The thing is that Mick wouldn't be able to say anything and that Reddit post would still be the "final say" on what happened. Which will hurt his future in the industry. He could have taken the offer but it sounds like they just wanted to silence him about it.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

Shibby eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Putting an NDA clause on a contract settlement is pretty typical, especially when there's bad blood and a complaint. You can all that "hush money" if you want, but it's the same reason most contractors who do work for public companies like this don't often disclose how much they were paid.

And if that "6 figure offer" were what Mick wanted all along then why did Mick reject it. Oh, right, because he wanted the Reddit post taken down - because 8 months after the fact that totally matters and isn't everywhere anyways.

The problem here is Marty/Mick idol worshipping - they say something and the fans are so cucked they don't approach it with any skepticism. We knew when Marty released his statement that it didn't add up, but apparently now Mick's is gospel? Get real and stop falling for this ♥♥♥♥.

The thing is that Mick wouldn't be able to say anything and that Reddit post would still be the "final say" on what happened. Which will hurt his future in the industry. He could have taken the offer but it sounds like they just wanted to silence him about it.

If I recall correctly he started to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on twitter and people riled up and started this controversy which lead to Marty's open letter.

Mick is kind of a ♥♥♥♥ but I don't get it, was the sum he mentioned not the payment owed to him by Id? He states we went without Id paying him for 11 months which is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Shibby]

Knud den Store 🧙‍♂ eredeti hozzászólása:

Shibby eredeti hozzászólása:

The thing is that Mick wouldn't be able to say anything and that Reddit post would still be the "final say" on what happened. Which will hurt his future in the industry. He could have taken the offer but it sounds like they just wanted to silence him about it.

If I recall correctly he started to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on twitter and people riled up and started this controversy which lead to Marty's open letter.

Mick is kind of a ♥♥♥♥ but I don't get it, was the sum he mentioned not the payment owed to him by Id? He states we went without Id paying him for 11 months which is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I think what is happening is that ID is holding that payment as long as he doesn't talk about what happened. In other words he wants to get paid what he is due under the original agreement but Id is holding it with a new agreement to never talk about what happened. Which if true is really scummy to do.

[Grampire]

Meat Man (Alfons) eredeti hozzászólása:

Grampire eredeti hozzászólása:

Putting an NDA clause on a contract settlement is pretty typical, especially when there's bad blood and a complaint. You can all that "hush money" if you want, but it's the same reason most contractors who do work for public companies like this don't often disclose how much they were paid.

And if that "6 figure offer" were what Mick wanted all along then why did Mick reject it. Oh, right, because he wanted the Reddit post taken down - because 8 months after the fact that totally matters and isn't everywhere anyways.

The problem here is Marty/Mick idol worshipping - they say something and the fans are so cucked they don't approach it with any skepticism. We knew when Marty released his statement that it didn't add up, but apparently now Mick's is gospel? Get real and stop falling for this ♥♥♥♥.

Why are we acting like terrible workplace events like this should be solved with money to hush about the problem

Why are we acting like biased and unconfirmed narratives - and the subsequent dogmatic emotional responses they get online - aren't the actual problem?

If Mick's career was wounded its because of the same very simple and emotionally charged mob that's now eager to defend him without even pausing to think first.

Maybe collective guilt? Definitely ignorance and impulse.