Does anyone else get tired of the over reliance on the chainsaw?

[p0mpous]

I kind of get sick of relying on the chainsaw for ammo all the time.

[Grampire]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Grampire:

If you are desperately waiting to chainsaw on cooldown then you're doing something very, very wrong and it has nothing to do with sitting through an annoying cutscene.

Im never waiting on it, its just too easy to get ammo back with it, the mechanic is poorly balanced and poorly implemented.

So is your issue then that ammo is too available? If that's the problem then why are you chainsawing so much?

You maybe *need* to chainsaw once or twice during a major arena unless you really screw up or need the iframes - but the iframes are pretty optional most of the time too because you can just pop your personal shield so you don't sacrifice control.

Between barrels and ambient pickups you can get through a lot of the larger fights without using it more than a couple times tops, so I'm really struggling to understand how this is such a huge disruption.

And if you don't like glory kills then you should be using Savagery and Blood Fueled, because it makes them almost instant and gives you additional benefit for using them.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Grampire:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Im never waiting on it, its just too easy to get ammo back with it, the mechanic is poorly balanced and poorly implemented.

So is your issue then that ammo is too available? If that's the problem then why are you chainsawing so much?

You maybe *need* to chainsaw once or twice during a major arena unless you really screw up or need the iframes - but the iframes are pretty optional most of the time too because you can just pop your personal shield so you don't sacrifice control.

Between barrels and ambient pickups you can get through a lot of the larger fights without using it more than a couple times tops, so I'm really struggling to understand how this is such a huge disruption.

And if you don't like glory kills then you should be using Savagery and Blood Fueled, because it makes them almost instant and gives you additional benefit for using them.

No my issue is the chainsaw is really the only way of getting a decent pool of ammo going as you dont carry enough to build up a reserve of ammo, so you chainsaw a few guys in combat to get some ammo and your ammo is full, you now cant pick up anything so that it, you cant build a reserve meaning its just short bursts of shooting and then chainsawing someone again and repeating that again and again and again, if you could have a larger possible pool of ammo you could have reserve of ammo meaning you wouldnt have to constantly do this.

Ammo management isnt a thing as you essentially dont have much ammo to start with but you have an infinite ammo making machine, so whats on the map doesnt matter as all I have to do is wait for the chainsaw and then I have ammo.

Using those perks doesnt get rid of them and I already have them.

[Hundinger]

You don't need to build a reserve of ammo. Why would you? You're planning to sell it to an arms dealer or something?

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Hundinger:

You don't need to build a reserve of ammo. Why would you? You're planning to sell to an arms dealer or something?

So I dont have to keep chainsawing people, good ammo management means you use your ammo well and gain ammo over time meaning you never run out as you managed your ammo well, this game doesnt have any ammo management as you have a I would say hand holdy piece of kit that just makes ammo for you.

[Kyller92 AKA Cinos]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Kyller92 AKA Cinos:

I disagree again. By this standard, we could argue the classic games, as there is much more ammo than necessary, also don't actually feature ammo management either. Now, yes, technically, it's not infinite but I think it doesn't matter if the quantity is so large that you don't even have to think about your ammo in first place.

And it's precisely what the chainsaw tries to "fix" as like Sar said, "a lot can happen in those 20 seconds."
The first levels of the game have actually enough ammo boxes so you don't have to rely on the chainsaw. In the later levels, you have enough weapons and ammo so that you don't have to chainsaw often. And this is on top of the fact that ammo pickups are still present and that enemies like Maykr Drones also give you ammo.

So yes, again, I'd argue if you think there's an over reliance on the chainsaw, it may be because you are mismanaging your ammo.

Thats not true in many old games you would find your power weapons short on ammo, it depends on the balance of the game.

No I'm no mismanaging ammo its just the most efficient way to get ammo and given the amount of ammo that is around most of the fighting arenas and given what you can carry I often leave most of the ammo on the floor as I'm full and cant carry anymore.

Actually by classic games, I meant the classic Doom games. But now that I think about it, it doesn't really change the situation. As I said, only the way to get ammo is different from the classic games (looking for ammo boxes vs. chainsaw demons).
Whether it's an animation "pausing" the fight, or just dismissing the fight to get ammo back, in my opinion, the result is the same.
At best, other things have to be taken into account while performing those actions, at worst, you "waste" time doing nothing meaningful.

And to be clear, I have no issue obviously with the fact you dislike to chainsaw enemies or having a short animation. I was mainly reacting to what you said about DE not having ammo management as, actually, I'd argue your feelings towards the over reliance on the chainsaw is a direct result of the way you manage your ammo.

[Hundinger]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Hundinger:

You don't need to build a reserve of ammo. Why would you? You're planning to sell to an arms dealer or something?

So I dont have to keep chainsawing people, good ammo management means you use your ammo well and gain ammo over time meaning you never run out as you managed your ammo well, this game doesnt have any ammo management as you have a I would hand holdy piece of kit that just makes ammo for you.

No, it means you are using all of your arsenal, equipment and your blood punch. Learn to do that efficiently and you don't have to chainsaw that much.

[Ace]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Ace:

It's really not, the animations are very polished & fast for one & if you feel it makes it to easy then unbind the key & don't use it.

But then the rest of the game isnt balanced to make up for it, sure the animation is polished but its still repetitive and still takes control away from you.

How does it take control away from you? you're pressing the key to do the action to get more ammo, ammo management is a key part of the game & there's more ways than just using the chainsaw to get to get back.

> Chainsaw fodder - get some ammo back
> Chainsaw Heavy - get max ammo back
> Find ammo in the level
> Blow up barrels to get some ammo back with the rune
> Hammer in DLC 2
> Head shot Maykr Drones - Max ammo + some health
> Head shot blood Maykr's - Max ammo + some health

I also use the chainsaw to get rid of some heavies during the earlier levels of the game as it makes some sections easier to get through.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Kyller92 AKA Cinos:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Thats not true in many old games you would find your power weapons short on ammo, it depends on the balance of the game.

No I'm no mismanaging ammo its just the most efficient way to get ammo and given the amount of ammo that is around most of the fighting arenas and given what you can carry I often leave most of the ammo on the floor as I'm full and cant carry anymore.

Actually by classic games, I meant the classic Doom games. But now that I think about it, it doesn't really change the situation. As I said, only the way to get ammo is different from the classic games (looking for ammo boxes vs. chainsaw demons).
Whether it's an animation "pausing" the fight, or just dismissing the fight to get ammo back, in my opinion, the result is the same.
At best, other things have to be taken into account while performing those actions, at worst, you "waste" time doing nothing meaningful.

And to be clear, I have no issue obviously with the fact you dislike to chainsaw enemies or having a short animation. I was mainly reacting to what you said about DE not having ammo management as, actually, I'd argue your feelings towards the over reliance on the chainsaw is a direct result of the way you manage your ammo.

No I would say its a direct result of what the game encourages I look around for ammo and find it but I cant carry it as I dont have large enough ammo pools and I cant make them larger.

Its like imagine a level with a million health kits but you can only have a maximum of 1 hp, thats kind of what its like.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Hundinger:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

So I dont have to keep chainsawing people, good ammo management means you use your ammo well and gain ammo over time meaning you never run out as you managed your ammo well, this game doesnt have any ammo management as you have a I would hand holdy piece of kit that just makes ammo for you.

No, it means you are using all of your arsenal, equipment and your blood punch. Learn to do that efficiently and you don't have to chainsaw that much.

You can make someone use all of their aresenal with weapon balance and making different guns different and better or worse vs certain enemies, you dont need a gimped ammo system.

I was just playing Quake 2 RTX and in that game I use pretty much every gun bar a few mainly the first shotgun and the pistol, that game doesnt limit me to a tiny ammo pool.

[Ace]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Kyller92 AKA Cinos:

Actually by classic games, I meant the classic Doom games. But now that I think about it, it doesn't really change the situation. As I said, only the way to get ammo is different from the classic games (looking for ammo boxes vs. chainsaw demons).
Whether it's an animation "pausing" the fight, or just dismissing the fight to get ammo back, in my opinion, the result is the same.
At best, other things have to be taken into account while performing those actions, at worst, you "waste" time doing nothing meaningful.

And to be clear, I have no issue obviously with the fact you dislike to chainsaw enemies or having a short animation. I was mainly reacting to what you said about DE not having ammo management as, actually, I'd argue your feelings towards the over reliance on the chainsaw is a direct result of the way you manage your ammo.

No I would say its a direct result of what the game encourages I look around for ammo and find it but I cant carry it as I dont have large enough ammo pools and I cant make them larger.

Its like imagine a level with a million health kits but you can only have a maximum of 1 hp, thats kind of what its like.

Sentinal crystals increase the ammo you can carry.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Ace:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

But then the rest of the game isnt balanced to make up for it, sure the animation is polished but its still repetitive and still takes control away from you.

How does it take control away from you? you're pressing the key to do the action to get more ammo, ammo management is a key part of the game & there's more ways than just using the chainsaw to get to get back.

> Chainsaw fodder - get some ammo back
> Chainsaw Heavy - get max ammo back
> Find ammo in the level
> Blow up barrels to get some ammo back with the rune
> Hammer in DLC 2
> Head shot Maykr Drones - Max ammo + some health
> Head shot blood Maykr's - Max ammo + some health

I also use the chainsaw to get rid of some heavies during the earlier levels of the game as it makes some sections easier to get through.

Because you literally cant move, you stop playing the game and watch the animation.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Ace:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

No I would say its a direct result of what the game encourages I look around for ammo and find it but I cant carry it as I dont have large enough ammo pools and I cant make them larger.

Its like imagine a level with a million health kits but you can only have a maximum of 1 hp, thats kind of what its like.

Sentinal crystals increase the ammo you can carry.

I know I have it maxed its still a small amount.

Compare it to 2016.

Take the super shotgun, the maximum ammo is 24, thats 12 shots.

[Ace]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

Publicado originalmente por Ace:

Sentinal crystals increase the ammo you can carry.

I know I have it maxed its still a small amount.

Is it? i don't find that at all, the way i play demons die very fast & i never run out of ammo, you're either not using everything correctly or you're missing something.

2016 was - get super shotgun & guass & you've won the game, as much as i loved 2016 it was so much easier than eternal.

[p0mpous]

Publicado originalmente por Ace:

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

I know I have it maxed its still a small amount.

Is it? i don't find that at all, the way i play demons die very fast & i never run out of ammo, you're either not using everything correctly or you're missing something.

No I'm not missing anything I hardly ever run out of ammo because the chainsaw exists.

Take the super shotgun, the maximum ammo is 24, thats 12 shots.

[Kyller92 AKA Cinos]

Publicado originalmente por p0mpous:

No I would say its a direct result of what the game encourages I look around for ammo and find it but I cant carry it as I dont have large enough ammo pools and I cant make them larger.

Its like imagine a level with a million health kits but you can only have a maximum of 1 hp, thats kind of what its like.

Yeah, but that means that your issue isn't the way you get back your ammo, but the fixed limit of your max ammo that you consider too small which is different.