Why exactly can’t PC players Save Game at will?

[Slyrr]

Doom Eternal could have been great. I’ve followed Doom since the 90s. Doom 2016 was fun. But I’ve struggled with Doom Eternal because of one humongous flaw. You can’t save the game.

Part of the reason why I have eschewed all console systems in favor of PC is because I can’t stand the way console games use the checkpoint system to save progress, and doesn’t allow saving at will.

And I’ve bristled as game developers have trended more towards importing console elements into PC games. Checkpoints in Doom Eternal is one example.

I’ve heard people say it’s to test our skill or endurance. And others say it’s impossible to save in Doom Eternal “because that’s just how it is”.

But I still want a save feature, because the current model makes playing the game a chore, rather than being fun. There’s nothing more horrible than almost getting to the end of a gore nest, only to die and then be forced to start all over again. Ditto for the brazza-frakkin jump puzzle sections.

Most NORMAL gamers are used to saving a game at will so we don’t have to put up with that frustration. I’ve avoided playing this game specifically because of the frustration caused by having to devote pointless hours to repeating nests and jump puzzles where the checkpoints are too far apart.

Surely a multi-billion dollar game company, staffed with the best programmers money can buy, could devote SOME of their considerable resources to implementing a normal save game function? Just for the benefit of players who don’t enjoy being forced to “test their endurance”? If other players want to prove how great they are by NOT saving the game, fine. All they’d have to do is choose not to save. But me? I want to save at will, dangit.

[Ride the Lightning]

Grampire původně napsal:

voo původně napsal:

So what your saying is gamer's are weak and can not choose for themselves, so they need someone to choose for them. This type of thinking is the new norm in society and complete bowlsiht.

I'm sorry, "weak" did you say?

"Weak" is being too much of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to fight through a tough piece of a game and whining because the dev won't give you instant reloads or bookmarks to crutch you through.

"Weak" is projecting a subliminal state of mind onto a community because you can't grapple with your own discontent.

"Weak" is believing that agreeing to play a game with specific rules is somehow relinquishing your freedom of choice.

Yes, please tell me more about being "weak."

Easy there Gramps you might blow a gasket. Talk about projecting I already said I don't have a problem with the current save system personally. The older save system accomplishes the same thing that you so passionately use as the reason to have a checkpoint system- the accomplishment of overcoming a challenge- you just have to choose this for yourself and not use saves.
I have come across quite a few posts in the last year of gamers who are challenged either physically or some other way and they were looking for advice on how they might be able to adapt and finish or accomplish a goal in a game. If the game offered save slots prehaps someone who couldnt get thru a checkpoint system in this situation could get thru the game with saves. This would be a flexable system that would accomadate those seeking a challenge or not. After all we are talkin about a freegin single player game who the hell cares how someone else is playing the game?
Im sure the thought of someone less fortunate than yourself didnt cross your mind, seeing how busy you were proclaiming what a badass you are for gettin thru a level. Ya I'd say thats weak.

[tyl0413]

Kyoki původně napsal:

tyl0413 původně napsal:

Having less choice always was, is and will be a bad thing.

Except again - this game is DESIGNED around the checkpoint system (aka: Combat rating system, Extra lives, ect). And also engine limitations - which is understandable if the game was designed to be played in a particular way. And that is something every game does.

What matters is - how well the systems in the game fit the gameplay loop and the design of the game in general. Whether it be the health system, ammo management, progression, saving, ect.

I don't get this obsession with "More choices = better game". It's not like that. Most games with "You can approach this in any way" mentality legit are garbage. Let's take far cry for example - you got many ways to approach each combat encounter.... but all of them are pretty much equally good and more than half of them freaking boring. Same goes for most open world games. Limits on the way you can play the game can make the game's systems shine way more than a "free form" approach. Not to say that it applies to every game - but games like this benefit from having limits. It forces you into the game's systems and makes you better at the game. And a lot of creativity comes from having said limits.

It's a technical limitation not a gameplay one, i don't care if others try to cheat the game with it, i just wanna quit and not lose progress, or save in specific places so i can come back to them, is that so much to ask for these days without "yOuR pLaYiNg ThE gAmE wRoNg" crowd coming at me, why do you care how others play?
While we are at that why not have unlimited save slots? Only 3 is extremely limiting having to copy around saves all the time.

[Slyrr]

I don't see how adding a save feature harms anyone. Nobody is asking for the checkpoint system to be replaced. Just a save feature added - so that, as said aptly said above, so you can quit playing when you want, without losing progress - or save and come back to them when you wish. That's what game saving is about - it's nothing to do with 'cheating' and all about user convenience.

[Tomoko]

Slyrr původně napsal:

I don't see how adding a save feature harms anyone.

Because it devalues the experience for other players who didn't have the option to save-scum through the entire game, defeating the purpose of playing a game that's based on skill. It ruins the experience for others because you're simply literally not good enough to beat the game normally. It already has fast-travel for collectables, and checkpoints for fights and platforming. The save feature would ONLY exist to help people save-scum which is... pointless and stupid.

[tyl0413]

Tomoko původně napsal:

Slyrr původně napsal:

I don't see how adding a save feature harms anyone.

Because it devalues the experience for other players who didn't have the option to save-scum through the entire game, defeating the purpose of playing a game that's based on skill. It ruins the experience for others because you're simply literally not good enough to beat the game normally. It already has fast-travel for collectables, and checkpoints for fights and platforming. The save feature would ONLY exist to help people save-scum which is... pointless and stupid.

Sound like a you problem, let people play their games and leave them alone, who gives a ♥♥♥♥ how often others save, did you care so much in the 90s? If not why, you people need help.

[Tomoko]

tyl0413 původně napsal:

Tomoko původně napsal:

Because it devalues the experience for other players who didn't have the option to save-scum through the entire game, defeating the purpose of playing a game that's based on skill. It ruins the experience for others because you're simply literally not good enough to beat the game normally. It already has fast-travel for collectables, and checkpoints for fights and platforming. The save feature would ONLY exist to help people save-scum which is... pointless and stupid.

Sound like a you problem, let people play their games and leave them alone, who gives a ♥♥♥♥ how often others save, did you care so much in the 90s? If not why, you people need help.

I wasn't alive in the 90s, my friend. It actually sounds more like a you problem, if anything. Why should the game be made easier just because you're not good enough? Get good and stop begging for useless features that only 1% of players will use.

[tyl0413]

Tomoko původně napsal:

tyl0413 původně napsal:

Sound like a you problem, let people play their games and leave them alone, who gives a ♥♥♥♥ how often others save, did you care so much in the 90s? If not why, you people need help.

I wasn't alive in the 90s, my friend. It actually sounds more like a you problem, if anything. Why should the game be made easier just because you're not good enough? Get good and stop begging for useless features that only 1% of players will use.

store.steampowered.com/sub/18397

[Tomoko]

tyl0413 původně napsal:

Tomoko původně napsal:

I wasn't alive in the 90s, my friend. It actually sounds more like a you problem, if anything. Why should the game be made easier just because you're not good enough? Get good and stop begging for useless features that only 1% of players will use.

store.steampowered.com/sub/18397

Irrelevant link posting.

[Turbo.DCS]

tyl0413 původně napsal:

Tomoko původně napsal:

I wasn't alive in the 90s, my friend. It actually sounds more like a you problem, if anything. Why should the game be made easier just because you're not good enough? Get good and stop begging for useless features that only 1% of players will use.

store.steampowered.com/sub/18397

Then play those games, if id wants to add quicksaving to Eternal, it's fine. But they won't, so deal with it.

[MattCryptid]

I agree that no save system kinda blows, being able to save at any particular area you want can be really useful at times.

That said, the checkpoint system and fast travel are still okay and are implemented better than most games that have a similar system.

[Grampire]

voo původně napsal:

Grampire původně napsal:

I'm sorry, "weak" did you say?

"Weak" is being too much of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to fight through a tough piece of a game and whining because the dev won't give you instant reloads or bookmarks to crutch you through.

"Weak" is projecting a subliminal state of mind onto a community because you can't grapple with your own discontent.

"Weak" is believing that agreeing to play a game with specific rules is somehow relinquishing your freedom of choice.

Yes, please tell me more about being "weak."

Easy there Gramps you might blow a gasket. Talk about projecting I already said I don't have a problem with the current save system personally. The older save system accomplishes the same thing that you so passionately use as the reason to have a checkpoint system- the accomplishment of overcoming a challenge- you just have to choose this for yourself and not use saves.
I have come across quite a few posts in the last year of gamers who are challenged either physically or some other way and they were looking for advice on how they might be able to adapt and finish or accomplish a goal in a game. If the game offered save slots prehaps someone who couldnt get thru a checkpoint system in this situation could get thru the game with saves. This would be a flexable system that would accomadate those seeking a challenge or not. After all we are talkin about a freegin single player game who the hell cares how someone else is playing the game?
Im sure the thought of someone less fortunate than yourself didnt cross your mind, seeing how busy you were proclaiming what a badass you are for gettin thru a level. Ya I'd say thats weak.

Spinning the conversation to include "gamers who are physically challenged or otherwise", or "less fortunate" in this group of "weak" gamers you introduced seems like a pretty disingenuous spin and absolutely not what I intended whatsoever in my post. I think that's pretty clear to anyone who reads it.

So let's cut the crap out on that piece. I'm talking about people who are whining because something isn't quite fitting their level of convenience.

Honestly, master levels take much less time if you die less, so there's a solution that doesn't involve save-scumming. Turn the difficulty down, or if you don't have time, do what I do - take a quick walk through your favorite regular level. If I only have 15-20 minutes, I'll jet through the Blood Swamps. If I want a crunchy, more epic and taxing experience that pushes me, the ML's are there, and that's their purpose.

Technical issues aside, ML's lose something if you can take a tea break in the middle. If you're not enjoying it, you're not ready. I don't really care if they add saves or not, but I hate stopping mid level, and esc key seems to work well if I really need to.

[space]

checkpoints are better cause they prevent savescumming

[MattCryptid]

space původně napsal:

checkpoints are better cause they prevent savescumming

Not really. Save feature is great when you want to go back to a particular moment or encounter in a level. Going through the whole level just to repeat a certain fight is a hassle.

Save scumming cheapens the experience but everyone knows that, ultimately it's up to the player how they choose to experience the game, not like save scumming would exist in UN anyway so any artificial gamer cred wouldn't be lost if that really bothers you.

[Slyrr]

The hypersensitives out there need to actually think before posting. How many times does one have to say that nobody is asking for the checkpoint system to be removed or changed? We’re only suggesting a save game feature to be added as a choice.

It’s illogical and frankly comes across as slightly demented when some people say that such a thing would “diminish” their own gaming experience. It’s like saying that if you order Pepsi at a restaurant while eating out, and someone at another table orders a Sprite, that it somehow “diminishes your dining experience”. That’s just asinine.

And for that matter, the Horde mode and many cosmetics weren’t “part of the original game” either. Did adding those features “diminsh the gaming experience” in any way? Of course not. They’re features that were added for more player convenience and choice. And they are in no way compulsory. Those who want to enjoy them are free to do so. Those who don’t are free to ignore them.

Same deal here. If a save feature were added, it would simply be an option for players to choose. Those who think saving at will “diminishes their experience” would in no way be compelled to do so. The checkpoint system would still be in full operation for them to enjoy.

People who would like a save game feature are well within their rights to lobby ID or Bethesda to add it, and we encourage all who agree to do so.

[alka]

Slyrr původně napsal:

People who would like a save game feature are well within their rights to lobby ID or Bethesda to add it, and we encourage all who agree to do so.

Of course people can lobby id/Bethesda to add a save function to Doom Eternal. Seems a bit late and very unlikely to change anything in Doom Eternal now though. They'd be better asking for id's next game to have the feature.