TAG2 is overhated

[ktulu84]

Im never gonna understand why people hates tag2 so much. World Spear is an awesome level and World Spear ML is one of the best and hardest ml in the game.
All 3 levels has fantastic arenas, awesome music. The only issue about tag 2 was the dark lord fight. Its not hard, its just disappointing and not that fun to fight against. Still better than having a bullet sponge boss.

Stone Imps: encourageing people to use full auto more often so full-auto will be viable. Stone imps are even chainsawable like what makes them a bad enemy ? They wanted to make a weak but tough enemy and they did

Riot Soldier: they ruined chaingunners. Doom 2 chaingunners are still the best worst enemy in DOOM series. But they now are stupid.

Armored barons: literally a baron with weakpoint(kinda)

Demonic troopers: best enemy in the game

Tag 1 gave us good enemies like turrets,spirits,blood maykrs its fantastic to see that they are also included in tag 2. Tag 2 demons arent that good but not that bad. Chaingunners could be better...

World Spear: has fantastic arenas, it has a giant tentacle and meathook things that makes the game even more better. 10/10

Reclaimed earth: not a bad level but some of its arenas are amazing and fun especially the industrial one. 8/10

Immora: I replayed the immora gore nest things a lot. It was so much fun and had great arenas. And has storm troopers

Dark Lord: disappointing

Hammer: Hammer makes the game easier but who cares, its fun. I love hammering and seeing demons being wtf. If you think it makes the game easier and not fun just dont use it

There isnt really a reason to not buy tag 2. It definetely worths to try. It also gives golden skins and skullface doom slayer.

So i think tag 2 doesnt deserve this much hate and it got a bad reputation thanks to people having skill issues with marauder and dark lord.

[xspNoble33]

Hahaha
After one year since TAG2 released,someone finally get to the point.
Here is your award,take it.

[Hundinger]

Under the mayo released a video about the TAG2 controversy today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC3hLlhyhZ0

[🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃]

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

Its not hard, its just disappointing and not that fun to fight against. Still better than having a bullet sponge boss.

No "shoot it till it dies" is a better boss design than the "legend of zelda" shoot the glowing weak point when its your turn boss design.

Ditto standard enemies too. Tyrants/doom hunters are better than blood maykrs.

[ktulu84]

Originally posted by 🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃:

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

Its not hard, its just disappointing and not that fun to fight against. Still better than having a bullet sponge boss.

No "shoot it till it dies" is a better boss design than the "legend of zelda" shoot the glowing weak point when its your turn boss design.

Ditto standard enemies too. Tyrants/doom hunters are better than blood maykrs.

Blood maykrs arent made to be an actual enemy. They are made to give you health and ammo. Meanwhile cyberdemons are made to hurt you and give cool glory kills.

"Shoot till it dies" demons never works in doom eternal. Cyberdemons,barons,dread knights,hell knights are all really easy to kill thanks to you being able to dodge their attacks and quickswitching gives a massive damage.
A shoot till it dies boss wouldnt provide a challenge to player. D2016 had that and peoplr kept abusing OP weapon mods to kill them

[🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃]

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

"Shoot till it dies" demons never works in doom eternal. Cyberdemons,barons,dread knights,hell knights are all really easy to kill thanks to you being able to dodge their attacks and quickswitching gives a massive damage.

Being forced to wait to arbitrarily hit something dosent make it harder nor is it challenging. Its actually less, its entirely illusory and its always "worse" because of it.

If you think shoot it till it dies bosses are bad in an fps then you think bosses are bad in an fps because an fps is "shoot it till it dies" which is entirely separate. I guess you could argue something xaeor or xan are different being more similar to the player (which is what most people were hoping for with the dark lord fight) but those bots are made to emulate player like behavior.

I guess you could throw in games that all but force boss to be a different style of game play also present ala the jedi knight games, titanfall 2, or omnikron but thats really pushing it.

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

D2016 had that and peoplr kept abusing OP weapon mods to kill them

Someone who is good being good at the game is not a solvable problem nor is it one that should be.

Also quick switching is just as powerful if not more and destroyer blade is just about as broken as siege mode with bunny hopping for pretty much the same reasons. You throw in things like the hammer or the crucible and your about on par with the all "broken" options of 2016.

[ktulu84]

Originally posted by 🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃:

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

"Shoot till it dies" demons never works in doom eternal. Cyberdemons,barons,dread knights,hell knights are all really easy to kill thanks to you being able to dodge their attacks and quickswitching gives a massive damage.

Being forced to wait to arbitrarily hit something dosent make it harder nor is it challenging. Its actually less, its entirely illusory and its always "worse" because of it.

If you think shoot it till it dies bosses are bad in an fps then you think bosses are bad in an fps because an fps is "shoot it till it dies". I guess you could argue something xaeor or xan are different but those bots are made to emulate "good" players.

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

D2016 had that and peoplr kept abusing OP weapon mods to kill them

Someone who is good at the game is good at the game is not a solvable problem nor is it one that should be.

Also quick switching is just as powerful if not more and destroyer blade is just about as broken as siege mode with bunny hopping for pretty much the same reasons.

I didnt said "shoot it till it dies" bosses are bad in fps. I said Shoot it till it dies bosses are bad in Doom eternal. Because doom eternal isnt a shoot it until it dies game.

You act like you wait 5 hours for bloodmaykr to flash green. In theory, yes waiting is bad but in practice its not that noticable. I never found myself waiting bloodymaykr to flash. Its not like you kill all demons in an arena and kill the marauder. You kill a bloodmaykr when you see her flashing and then continue fighting. Only issue about flashing is the buff totem breaking their ai.

DE isnt a braindead shooter. What fun is being able to kill a boss fastly with quickswitching. You can kill a cyberdemon in under 10 secs

[🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃]

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

I didnt said "shoot it till it dies" bosses are bad in fps. I said Shoot it till it dies bosses are bad in Doom eternal. Because doom eternal isnt a shoot it until it dies game.

DE isnt a braindead shooter.

It really is. whether Hugo says its a 4x grand stragey game or not.

As far as being "brain dead", the "brain dead" elements are ridge gameplay elements like waiting turn to hit the enemy with X "right" weapon. Basically most of the things supposedly making it an RTS puzzle tower defense game or whatever silly nonsense vs the "boomer shooter" elements.

Originally posted by SR | BoraY:

What fun is being able to kill a boss fastly with quickswitching. You can kill a cyberdemon in under 10 secs

You kill pretty much everything in DE in a "short" amount of time with quick switching or a power weapon except sometimes your forced to wait to give the illusion that your not.

Also its "being good at the game". Its the same reason its fun to speed thru quake levels bunny hopping instead of slowly waddling around. Again, "unsolvable issue" whether you force people to wait or not.

[chester]

My biggest issue with TAG 2 is the difficulty. I have other issues with the DLC, but I could overlook those if the combat didn't feel so watered down.

I was extremely hyped for this DLC, and I think my hype was justified after TAG 1 blew me away. TAG 2 just left me feeling empty. I tried to be as positive about it as possible, but it doesn't really matter how great the levels, arenas, and music are if the most important aspect of the game (the combat) is disappointing. I was looking forward to seeing the new creative ways they would use spirits, and how they would push the boundaries of the game like TAG 1 did, but they unfortunately did none of that.

If the difficulty of TAG 1 and TAG 2 were reversed, I wouldn't have an issue with it. The issue is how underwhelming it feels going from one DLC to the next. Imagine if Taras Nabad came before Super Gore Nest in the base campaign. That's essentially how the jump from TAG 1 to TAG 2 feels. At the very least, TAG 2 should've been on par with TAG 1 in terms of difficulty.

The buffs helped a little by getting rid of the pathetic imp swarm in World Spear and making the fights in Reclaimed Earth a lot better, but it doesn't fix the issue.

I find it hard to recommend TAG 2 to people unless they intend to play it modded. The only worthwhile levels imo are the World Spear ML and Reclaimed Earth (thanks to the buffs). What makes it even more disappointing is how this DLC was challenging at one point in development, but they decided to rework it and water it down, while ALSO nerfing TAG 1. It was essentially wasted development time, when their development time was already tight.

Still have tons of respect for these devs by all means. One flop isn't a huge deal, but I'm not going to hide my true feelings about this DLC just because I respect the devs. It could've been so much more.

[MattCryptid]

Very true.

It's a pretty good DLC overall, and has improved a fair bit after launch. The only truly weak part of it now is the Dark Lord, and when you use the hammer, if you do not use the hammer in the base DLC, it's a significantly better experience.

Agree on your WS and RE ratings for the most part. I would say Immora is a solid 7/10 as well. Overall a solid DLC, but dragged down by the Dark Lord and Sentinel Hammer.

Also has a great Master Level for World Spear.

[UNBREAKABLE]

TAG 2 isn't bad, but you can tell they were on a tighter time limit when developing it. It is also evident they caved into negative TAG1 reviews written by gamers who wanted it to be easy because they sucked at the main game, as if they were somehow going to like a post-endgame DLC better.

For maps that lead up the "final" boss of the SERIES, they were underwhelming and failed to really test player beyond the demons introduced. The final encounter before fighting the literal devil is a flat arena with nothing but stone imps and ammo... I get it's not meant to be ball bustingly hard but like really? That's what was protecting Lucifer at his front door?

IMO it was a huge mistake to put the Dark Lord in a DLC and actually kill him, even if it ties off the story. That should have been saved for something with a bigger budget, not a DLC which has development resources scaled back by nature.

[Rose the Dark Gooner]

Originally posted by Hundinger:

Under the mayo released a video about the TAG2 controversy today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC3hLlhyhZ0

God I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate Mayo. He comes off as such a self entitled prick in everyone of his vids.

[Grampire]

In retrospect the only amendment I'd make to my TAG2 review is to add that the World Spear ML is incredible and worth the price of the DLC alone.

It's not so much that TAG2 is "bad" or "hated" so much that it dragged the bar down, and coincided with unnecessary"pacing" nerfs to TAG1. I personally think Reclaimed Earth is one of the most forgettable levels in the game, and the other 2 are not worthy of finishing off the Eternal saga.

It's not bad, but Eternal deserved a much better finale. When I want to go back and play Eternal content, I rarely revisit anything from TAG2.

[Wehzy]

TAG2 > Main game

get gud

[Grampire]

Originally posted by Kuro:

I wish they didn’t listen to likely the Call of Duty crowd .

I honestly think they were listening to the Dark Souls crowd more than the CoD crowd in this case.

From Software games include an incredible amount of cheese you can employ to get through almost all the content in the game, and barring cheese you can just overlevel. The pieces you can't cheese get blasted on forums for being "unfair" or "artificial difficulty."

The amount of content in Doom Eternal you can cheese is nearly zero, which is an affront to the burgeoning e-peenery of the "hardcore gamerz" crowd that loves "hard" games. When it's actually hard, the true wailing begins....

[Belbe's Ultra-Nightmare Fixation]

Originally posted by Grampire:

Originally posted by Kuro:

I wish they didn’t listen to likely the Call of Duty crowd .

I honestly think they were listening to the Dark Souls crowd more than the CoD crowd in this case.

From Software games include an incredible amount of cheese you can employ to get through almost all the content in the game, and barring cheese you can just overlevel. The pieces you can't cheese get blasted on forums for being "unfair" or "artificial difficulty."

The amount of content in Doom Eternal you can cheese is nearly zero, which is an affront to the burgeoning e-peenery of the "hardcore gamerz" crowd that loves "hard" games. When it's actually hard, the true wailing begins....

which makes sense cause Davoth feels like a Bloodborne boss; it's built around spacing and using your dash in this sort of waltz like fight and not the tenants of DOOM mechanics. also the shallowness of souls combat further limited by being in the wrong game makes it feel all the more pitiful and lacking in fun. it lacks the actual precision requirements of well crafted and tuned souls bosses while providing you with an over the top powerful punishment when the boss is countered. this is further compounded by all 5 phases being the same, even in souls we will see dramatic changes between the phases if there are second or third phases to a boss fight. see Sister Friede. It feels like they ran out of time and needed to make a duel like final boss experience and ended up making something even more pitifully simple than a souls tutorial boss... it honestly feels like gundyr but the second phase is over 80% of the fight, and you're allowed to roll or use a shield which just makes the fight boring.

and to be honest, I love souls games... I just don't think their formula belongs in DOOM and I don't think id knows how to tune a souls boss. I also think that souls is a pretty simple series even if you don't abuse certain obviously broken tools in the games. like pyromancy in DS1 which makes SL1 a joke. So it should be obvious that this kind of boss doesn't belong in DOOM and would need a lot of tuning in a souls game.

I also agree on your second comment, the thing is people want games with the illusion of being hard so they can boost their ego and lord it over people just suck at games and don't invest (which is totally fine, you don't need super invest in games, there are much better ways to spend your time but I wouldn't know about that)... but as soon as they're asked to play a game like DOOM Eternall on UNM (not that this is actually hard but it's the semblance of actual skill requirement that people won't do) or do SL1 no roll/block/parry no magic no projectiles they balk. it's the fallacy of the mid tier as you might call it, those with mediocre ability but can pass some arbitrary line in the sand will be the most toxic and cry the hardest when not handed easy things to bloat their ego over. Souls players are the worst of this crowd because the skill ceiling in their game is so disgustingly low...