Horde mode is broken

[Dr. Professor Commander]

How in the actual f*** does id expect me to kill a spirit without the plasma rifle in horde mode? That's seriously the most counter-intuitive logic I've seen from them. Way to go id Software. Kill everything except that demon first. That's seriously dumb s*** too, and a stupid suggestion. Spirits shouldn't be included if the plasma gun isn't something constant in horde mode.

[Regufyz]

if you kill all Medium and Heavy Demons the Spirit will die since they made it that it cant posess Fodder. However i cant remember having to kill a Spirit without the Plasma Gun. From what i remember you get the gun before they make it spawn

[Dr. Professor Commander]

Originally posted by Regufyz:

if you kill all Medium and Heavy Demons the Spirit will die since they made it that it cant posess Fodder. However i cant remember having to kill a Spirit without the Plasma Gun. From what i remember you get the gun before they make it spawn

I was given the Precision bolt, chaingun, and combat shotgun. and doing that is a little difficult when the second possessed whiplash is coming at ya... The archvile got me, but they ate through my lives like a fat kid with fast food. Failed because of poor game mode design. Maybe they shoulda taken a bit more time before releasing it, it's apparent they needed to. Let's spawn something in and not give you the necessary tool to defeat it. hmmmmm....

[Kyoki]

The spirits can indeed spawn without you having a plasma rifle - but they die by the end of the wave, and spirits themselves don't give points for this reason. Same way bloodmakyr will always spawn in one of the first waves while you only have a combat shotgun. Is it a bit frustrating? Yea. Is it manageable? Yea.

[Dr. Professor Commander]

Originally posted by Kyoki:

The spirits can indeed spawn without you having a plasma rifle - but they die by the end of the wave, and spirits themselves don't give points for this reason. Same way bloodmakyr will always spawn in one of the first waves while you only have a combat shotgun. Is it a bit frustrating? Yea. Is it manageable? Yea.

They basically made it a scaled down, time-locked buff totem.

[Kyoki]

Originally posted by Stormin' Norman666:

Originally posted by Kyoki:

The spirits can indeed spawn without you having a plasma rifle - but they die by the end of the wave, and spirits themselves don't give points for this reason. Same way bloodmakyr will always spawn in one of the first waves while you only have a combat shotgun. Is it a bit frustrating? Yea. Is it manageable? Yea.

They basically made it a scaled down, time-locked buff totem.

Yep. Then again - there was something similar in proteh's horde mode - so i am not surprised that they used it aswell.

[chester]

I've found that getting the plasma rifle early puts you at a disadvantage. It's essentially useless aside from microwaving spirits. I'd rather fight multiple possessed demons with the heavy cannon and rocket launcher than fight one possessed demon with the heavy cannon and plasma rifle

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

Horde mode is a return to TAG1 design philosophy, you need to watch videos by Doomguy Bot, Under the Mayo and Cynic the Original and perhaps Zero Master too learn some of the most advanced things you can do to kill spirits and super heavies.

I had just watched Doomguy Bot video on how to kill the Doom Hunter with just the shotgun when this dropped and that was the first super heavy I faced on Horde Mode, so yeah

The philosophy in question is: Black Belts Only, because people cry too much when Id implements difficult levels but become insufferable when they make things a little easier, so yeah, if you complained about Tag2 being too easy, this is what you get, 3 Archviles with Blood Makyr support and no BFG, because what are you, CASUL?

Honestly, this is a lot of fun and I might be keep playing Eternal for the next year.

[Grampire]

Honestly, would rather chill with a spirit on the battlefield the whole round than get the plasma rifle before most of the other guns.

[Dr. Professor Commander]

Originally posted by chester:

I've found that getting the plasma rifle early puts you at a disadvantage. It's essentially useless aside from microwaving spirits. I'd rather fight multiple possessed demons with the heavy cannon and rocket launcher than fight one possessed demon with the heavy cannon and plasma rifle

Yeah, but I had two guns that used the same ammo, so I was at an even greater disadvantage than if I had the PB and the plasma rifle.

[Knud den Store 🧙‍♂]

Originally posted by Grampire:

Honestly, would rather chill with a spirit on the battlefield the whole round than get the plasma rifle before most of the other guns.

Confirmed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
The plasma gun is damn great, carried me through Taras Nabad ML. You know the red room with the totem, heat blast works great to disable a lot of troublesome demons.

Heat Blast can destroy weakpoints very reliably too, stun demons and you get the Mastered version right out of the bat, so you get access to the overcharged plasma. In addition Microwave Stun is great against super heavies.

Apparently the order is randomized, so we got randomizer added to horde mode, in my case I got Ballista and SSG before the Rocket Launcher and everyone knows just how op SSG + B is already.

[Supa]

And Marauders and Maykrs without super shotgun, ballista or precision rifle... I get it they wanted to make it feel more replayable but to me it just gives this "oh well this time I got bad luck so the fights are going to be more tedious.

In story mode and dlc1 and 2 the fights are designed in a way that you can always play them out smoothly but not here.

[Dr. Professor Commander]

Originally posted by Knud den Store:

Originally posted by Grampire:

Honestly, would rather chill with a spirit on the battlefield the whole round than get the plasma rifle before most of the other guns.

Confirmed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
The plasma gun is damn great, carried me through Taras Nabad ML. You know the red room with the totem, heat blast works great to disable a lot of troublesome demons.

Heat Blast can destroy weakpoints very reliably too, stun demons and you get the Mastered version right out of the bat, so you get access to the overcharged plasma. In addition Microwave Stun is great against super heavies.

Apparently the order is randomized, so we got randomizer added to horde mode, in my case I got Ballista and SSG before the Rocket Launcher and everyone knows just how op SSG + B is already.

This. My first run I failed at the end, but I had the plasma rifle that time and fried the spirit, not only that but it was one of my primary weapons for nearly every wave for the reasons he pointed out

[Dr. Professor Commander]

Originally posted by Knud den Store:

The philosophy in question is: Black Belts Only, because people cry too much when Id implements difficult levels but become insufferable when they make things a little easier, so yeah, if you complained about Tag2 being too easy, this is what you get, 3 Archviles with Blood Makyr support and no BFG, because what are you, CASUL?

Honestly, this is a lot of fun and I might be keep playing Eternal for the next year.

TAG2 was a bit easy, this is a situation one has no control over, like a time-locked buff totem. I want harder encounters with more enemies, not situations that can screw you because you have no control over them. If you don't get the plasma rifle, the game should leave the summoner out of the wave. I'm sure they can program the game to run a check if you have the plasma rifle or not, because you simply can't pickup plasma ammo without it or the ballista in your arsenal. If the check is negative, game chooses not to spawn one. It could be so much simpler. Imagine that though, different waves based on your weapon rolls. It could add a bit of replayability imo.

[chester]

Originally posted by Stormin' Norman666:

Originally posted by chester:

I've found that getting the plasma rifle early puts you at a disadvantage. It's essentially useless aside from microwaving spirits. I'd rather fight multiple possessed demons with the heavy cannon and rocket launcher than fight one possessed demon with the heavy cannon and plasma rifle

Yeah, but I had two guns that used the same ammo, so I was at an even greater disadvantage than if I had the PB and the plasma rifle.

Yeah, that sucks. I'm definitely not a fan of the RNG, but I don't think that not having the plasma rifle for spirits is an issue, so long as you have a good DPS/quickswitch weapon

[MattCryptid]

Originally posted by Stormin' Norman666:

Originally posted by Knud den Store:

Confirmed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
The plasma gun is damn great, carried me through Taras Nabad ML. You know the red room with the totem, heat blast works great to disable a lot of troublesome demons.

Heat Blast can destroy weakpoints very reliably too, stun demons and you get the Mastered version right out of the bat, so you get access to the overcharged plasma. In addition Microwave Stun is great against super heavies.

Apparently the order is randomized, so we got randomizer added to horde mode, in my case I got Ballista and SSG before the Rocket Launcher and everyone knows just how op SSG + B is already.

This. My first run I failed at the end, but I had the plasma rifle that time and fried the spirit, not only that but it was one of my primary weapons for nearly every wave for the reasons he pointed out

Yeah, heat blast is a great and versatile mod. I also got Plasma Rifle as my first unlock for Horde and it carried my early run along with the stickies.