why do ppl hate doom 3? :: DOOM Eternal 総合掲示板

Red

2021年4月26日 3時42分

Doom 3 is a good game, it has atmosphere and fits perfectly the niche of light horror.
It's just the black sheep, because it was born in a Franchise of media defining action games.

最近の変更はRedが行いました; 2021年4月26日 3時42分

#76

Storm

2021年4月26日 4時48分

Red の投稿を引用：
It's just the black sheep, because it was born in a Franchise of media defining action games.

And because there was a serious changes in id Software thanks to John Carmack who really, really wanted to make another Doom game and make it shiny and fancy while many other members (who got fired, of course) was against it and wanted to make some original game with cool gameplay.

#77

freefall

2021年4月26日 4時58分

I can agree it's very different in terms of style, and it's not aged well. I can understand why people don't like it. But I personally liked it, even if I also felt it's a flawed experience. It's a product of its time.

#78

Not Lee Harvey Oswald は DOOM Eternal　を持っています

2021年4月26日 13時50分

Kurumi w/ Crucible の投稿を引用：
Hello mario の投稿を引用：
That's fair, I personally like it (and quake since a similar case can be made about it) because to me the atmosphere adds more tension and works well with the gameplay as action horror. But youre right, it is out of place (atmosphere wise). I dont think thats necessarily a bad thing since it doesnt go the complete doom 3 direction of sticking out like a sore thumb (gameplay of 64 is like the previous games, etc). Doom 64 definitely aint for everyone but it does have its audience though I feel like after doom eternal there shouldnt really be another game in the franchise like 64 (unless its a spinoff) since that kind of grim action horror atmosphere better belongs with quake and would help the franchises better stand apart from eachother if quake ever got a singleplayer reboot in the style of the first game.
Cant disagree with a single thing you said chief. Personally, I just wish Doom 64 made you feel a little less powerful, thats my only complaint

That's fair

#79

EF_Neo1st

2021年4月26日 14時02分

Hello mario の投稿を引用：
Kurumi w/ Crucible の投稿を引用：
I still don't get why people like Doom 64's ambience and design. It would be like if they made Doom Eternal an emo narrative and made all of the songs solemn and sad while you're swinging around the arena with a machine gun. Its just out of place with the way the game plays and the historical way the franchise has played
That's fair, I personally like it (and quake since a similar case can be made about it) because to me the atmosphere adds more tension and works well with the gameplay as action horror. But youre right, it is out of place (atmosphere wise). I dont think thats necessarily a bad thing since it doesnt go the complete doom 3 direction of sticking out like a sore thumb (gameplay of 64 is like the previous games, etc). Doom 64 definitely aint for everyone but it does have its audience though I feel like after doom eternal there shouldnt really be another game in the franchise like 64 (unless its a spinoff) since that kind of grim action horror atmosphere better belongs with quake and would help the franchises better stand apart from eachother if quake ever got a singleplayer reboot in the style of the first game.

DOOMs at PS1 had it before 64.

#80

AugustsEve は DOOM Eternal　を持っています

2021年4月26日 15時01分

D3 was the best Doom to-date, I'd love to see another like it. It wasn't just a FPS, it was a horror game.

#81

Storm

2021年4月26日 20時47分

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
DOOMs at PS1 had it before 64.

But PSX DOOM was a redesign of original DOOM levels while DOOM 64 was a brand new with it's own designed demons and levels heavily relied on traps and spooky atmosphere.

#82

EF_Neo1st

2021年4月26日 21時07分

Thunda Gawd の投稿を引用：
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
DOOMs at PS1 had it before 64.
But PSX DOOM was a redesign of original DOOM levels while DOOM 64 was a brand new with it's own designed demons and levels heavily relied on traps and spooky atmosphere.

. . . Yes, but playing the PS1 version and playing the PC version are two complete different experiences (and I still prefer the PS1 versions, for ambience ost and darker ambience, also the sound effects seem better too).

About the traps . . . I played DOOM 64 and, really, not necessary at all (not that it make the game hard or more challenging, it just . . . is not needed, imo) but the darker atmosphere thing started at the PS1 version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYX-7juLBUo&list=PL8Ze5WK7zCVWudTwLZj_u06RqFcCSrSHC&index=22
The first time listening to this (when I ws just an young teen) and at the map it was I must admit I turned off the PS1 and took some minutes to turn it on again (and I was used to watch movies like Hellraiser, Shining, Evil Dead, Wishmaster and other stuff that show violence, insanity and gore since I was 6).
It was the first time in literally years that I felt fear with something on tv.

Then I proceeded to listen to it while stopped and then admire how much the ambience ost fit the level design:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGGRYHJ6Zx4

Really, I can not play this level with this soundtrack from the PC version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knLJWZCkkK8

#83

Storm

2021年4月26日 23時50分

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
About the traps . . . I played DOOM 64 and, really, not necessary at all (not that it make the game hard or more challenging, it just . . . is not needed, imo) but the darker atmosphere thing started at the PS1 version.

Yes, but mainly it was Quake 1 that was already released at this point, as an inspiration for design, new gameplay features and successor of id Software evolution in genre for DOOM 64.

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
The first time listening to this (when I ws just an young teen) and at the map it was I must admit I turned off the PS1 and took some minutes to turn it on again (and I was used to watch movies like Hellraiser, Shining, Evil Dead, Wishmaster and other stuff that show violence, insanity and gore since I was 6).
It was the first time in literally years that I felt fear with something on tv.

Indeed, Aubrey Hodges did a great job on DOOM and Quake ports for consoles, especially with limited N64 capabilities - dude literally wrote this music from N64 system samples and DOOM/Quake sound effects, avoided glitches, bugs in N64 sound sub-systems with cartridge limitations.

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
Really, I can not play this level with this soundtrack from the PC version...

Not the best example - Final Doom was a 3rd party maps with random or reused music. And soundfont in this one is so weird. With proper soundfont like Roland RC-55 it sounds like Blood sountrack mixed with System Shock, which is awesome. Bobby Prince's DOOM 1-2 tracks are classics. Don't you tell me you don't like this

:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkhCNx-8Qos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_f6LCwmsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7MPl4G2Qc

But back to Doom 3 thread. It had almost no music. That's it except for dope main menu theme)

最近の変更はStormが行いました; 2021年4月27日 0時04分

#84

EF_Neo1st

2021年4月27日 7時12分

Thunda Gawd の投稿を引用：
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
About the traps . . . I played DOOM 64 and, really, not necessary at all (not that it make the game hard or more challenging, it just . . . is not needed, imo) but the darker atmosphere thing started at the PS1 version.
Yes, but mainly it was Quake 1 that was already released at this point, as an inspiration for design, new gameplay features and successor of id Software evolution in genre for DOOM 64.

They changed the tone with darker looks and darker ost for the PS1 much before the N64.

Thunda Gawd の投稿を引用：
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
The first time listening to this (when I ws just an young teen) and at the map it was I must admit I turned off the PS1 and took some minutes to turn it on again (and I was used to watch movies like Hellraiser, Shining, Evil Dead, Wishmaster and other stuff that show violence, insanity and gore since I was 6).
It was the first time in literally years that I felt fear with something on tv.
Indeed, Aubrey Hodges did a great job on DOOM and Quake ports for consoles, especially with limited N64 capabilities - dude literally wrote this music from N64 system samples and DOOM/Quake sound effects, avoided glitches, bugs in N64 sound sub-systems with cartridge limitations.

So ... he made the ost for N64 but it was released much earlier (years) for the PS1 ...

Thunda Gawd の投稿を引用：
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
Really, I can not play this level with this soundtrack from the PC version...
Not the best example - Final Doom was a 3rd party maps with random or reused music. And soundfont in this one is so weird. With proper soundfont like Roland RC-55 it sounds like Blood sountrack mixed with System Shock, which is awesome. Bobby Prince's DOOM 1-2 tracks are classics. Don't you tell me you don't like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkhCNx-8Qos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_f6LCwmsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E7MPl4G2Qc

It is ok for other games,maybe, but for DOOM, I turn the ost off when playing the PC version and put PS1 Hodges and turn brightness down ... that is DOOM ost to me for the classics and I dont feel playing DOOM with the PC version at all, to me it is a let down, classic DOOMs to me always were that dark and with these osts.
When I listened the first time to the PC version (ok, original as it was first released for PC) I was like "wtf is that?" and when I checked the PC versions osts and gameplay, the only thing I could do was to think "this is not DOOM".

I even have the PC versions at Steam but I still play the classic DOOMs on emulator with PS1 CDs.

So, in short, no, I dont like these OSTs neither the looks of the PC version (maybe it even look so much different exactly because of the ost) and I can not like the PC versions for DOOM because to me that is not DOOM.

#85

Storm

2021年4月27日 7時39分

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
They changed the tone with darker looks and darker ost for the PS1 much before the N64.

I mean level design. All this traps, textures and geometry, verticality definitely was inspired by released in previous year Quake 1 and for using advantages of new updated engine. PSX port was still using original slightly modified maps and limited engine features from Jaguar version.

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
So ... he made the ost for N64 but it was released much earlier (years) for the PS1 ...

PSX ports got original digital music, for N64 he took different approach due to this console and cartridge limitations.

EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
I was like "wtf is that?" and when I checked the PC versions osts and gameplay, the only thing I could do was to think "this is not DOOM".

Nostalgia is a strong thing) I guess this is why some later players can't take modern Doom after Doom 3, or Doom 3 after classic.

#86

EF_Neo1st

2021年4月27日 8時03分

Thunda Gawd の投稿を引用：
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
They changed the tone with darker looks and darker ost for the PS1 much before the N64.
I mean level design. All this traps, textures and geometry, verticality definitely was inspired by released in previous year Quake 1 and for using advantages of new updated engine. PSX port was still using original slightly modified maps and limited engine features from Jaguar version.
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
So ... he made the ost for N64 but it was released much earlier (years) for the PS1 ...
PSX ports got original digital music, for N64 he took different approach due to this console and cartridge limitations.
EF_Neo1st の投稿を引用：
I was like "wtf is that?" and when I checked the PC versions osts and gameplay, the only thing I could do was to think "this is not DOOM".
Nostalgia is a strong thing) I guess this is why some later players can't take modern Doom after Doom 3, or Doom 3 after classic.

Well, yes nostalgia for sure, also when I checked PC DOOM for the first time I was playing PS1 DOOMs for like 8 years already and the difference between both feel to me as massive as the difference between a mix of Rambo and Chuck Norris movie and a mix of Hellraiser and Wishmaster movies, that is too much of a difference in feeling to even consider.

To me DOOM 3 dont feel like a DOOM because of small spaces, small amount of demons and slower gameplay, but everything else about the look of the game is great and the ambience sounds fit it too and I enjoy it.

#87

The Chocobo Racer は DOOM Eternal　を持っています

2021年4月27日 9時41分

the fact of the matter is, most Doom games feature fast paced demon killing combat. New doom plays heavily off this, and the older games threw a ton of demons at you with ripoffs of well known metallica pieces in the background. In comparison, the Doom ports and Doom 3 are less like doom than their predecessors and descendants. Its great that you like it, but ultimately, a game that would better fit the style of play with the music and atmosphere of Doom 3, would probably be deadspace

#88

EF_Neo1st

2021年4月27日 10時18分

Kurumi w/ Crucible の投稿を引用：
the fact of the matter is, most Doom games feature fast paced demon killing combat. New doom plays heavily off this, and the older games threw a ton of demons at you with ripoffs of well known metallica pieces in the background. In comparison, the Doom ports and Doom 3 are less like doom than their predecessors and descendants. Its great that you like it, but ultimately, a game that would better fit the style of play with the music and atmosphere of Doom 3, would probably be deadspace

The midi metal and the brighter ambience are the only differences, gameplay wise the PS1 ports and the N64 gameplay work he same as the PC versions.
If for you this is not DOOM because it is not midi metal soundtrack and not bright ambience, well, I can not tell you are wrong as it is your preference, as you seem to come from the PC versions, but I can not play the PC versions of classic DOOMs and feel like I am playing DOOM (or "less like DOOM") as much as you (by what you described) seem to see the PS1 and N64 DOOMs as "less like DOOM" as you described.

I also have deadspace but it dont play like DOOM, as much as DOOM 3 dont play like DOOM, just the visual and audio ambience is more "correct as to my taste" coming from PS1 and N64.

#89

UnKn0wN

2021年5月12日 3時03分

Dragova の投稿を引用：
As long as it talks about monsters from biblical hell and taking place on Mars or it's moons with shotguns then it's Doom in my book. You take away that aspect and it's no longer Doom but a generic shooter that spawned from it's legacy. Which has also changed a lot from giving ideas to make the basics of first person shooters to assimilating mechanics from popular mods and story elements from other science-fiction-fantasy genres. Doom is defined not by gameplay alone but by it's setting and combination of things.

This is why even the movies can't get it right as they constantly omit the Demons from hell part.

agree.
eternal is barely a Doom game and tag2 is anything but Doom.

at this point I would prefer they stop using the Doom name for games that just don´t have anything to do with the originals anymore both gameplay and story/settings wise.

#90

DOOM Eternal

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