[SPOILERS] Am I the only one who thinks Doom's story (DLC Included) was freaking amazing?

[Threvon]

I was searching through posts to see what people thought of Eternal's story, and I was so surprised to see that so many people were disappointed with the story one way or the other? Like people's opinions are all over the place. To be fair, it is a confusing story. When I first started the game I had no idea how it tied in with 2016. And it took me more than one playthrough and several reads of the codex entries to understand how everything-and I mean, EVERYTHING- tied in together. For no other game have I had to do this much thinking to understand the story. But because of this, the story felt more real, valuable and elaborated on. The constant contrast between good and evil, that last twist at the end of DLC2 (which I don't think it was a cheap shot AT ALL, in fact it makes so much sense if you consider scripture Before there was light, there was darkness ) was ON POINT. Anyways people are looking Doom Eternal as a game purely designed to serve as an action shooter, but if they just took the time to read through the lore they'd see that the story, too, is divinely awesome.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by Kyōki:

...
Also ignore the flyboy, the guy has some self-esteem issues.

My esteem issues cause you to mention me in a majority of your responses...
That sounds an awful lot like your own obsession.

Get some self-awareness and some help.

[General Darknessvamp]

Regarding the gameplay's story, it's a very tentative 'fine' but it goes out of it's way to completely disregard how the last game ended and changed the Doom Marine into a literal Chosen One destined to beat the Demons rather than some guy who fought to survive. Main Game: You fight to save Earth by killing all the Hell Priests to stop Demonic Corruption and then kick the Makyrs' ass for being behind everything and kill the Icon of Sin to stop the Earth's destruction. TAG1: You fight to save earth by creating the opportunity to kill the ass behind everything. TAG2: You kill the ass behind everything and go to sleep. As I said 'fine', nothing stand out or exceptionally bad/stupid (for a game that revolves around demons invading)

As for the Codex with the background stuff, the main game and both DLCs just re-tell the same origin story for the Doom Slayer and reasons for why everything happened three times with slightly different characters being responsible for everything. It also feels very nonsensical comparatively to the game's story.
Main Game: Doom Marine turns up in place randomly after Mars and Hell, place is governed by 'angels' (Makyrs), Makyrs make everything and learn about demons, Makyrs start war with demons and figure out Argent Energy, Doom Marine ends up fighting in the war, Makyrs betray people fighting in the war and make a deal with the leader of Hell, Doom Marine gets turned into Doom Slayer to better fight Demons, Makyrs lose their means of resurrection as it's stolen and so go all in on Argent Energy, Doom Slayer fights back against Makyrs and ends up trapped in hell. At some point gets coffined and Makyrs go around turning planets into Argent batteries by causing hell invasions. Doom 2016 happens at some point and it's explained the Makyrs caused all that (which the first game doesn't make a case for at all), now Earth is getting the same treatment.
TAG1: The Father makes everything and made hell and the Makyrs, the Father sealed hell and turned the Dark Lord into an Orb and then turned himself into an orb and an AI, The Father planned the creation of the Doom Slayer in advance as a contingency plan as well as his own AI theft at the hands of the Makyr Samur in case hell got a little too dangerous, Samur steals the father after Doom Slayer is made and escapes to Earth, Samur becomes cloned as Samuel Hayden and The Father gets turned into Vega so they can observe and uplift humanity, Samuel decides to recommend harvesting Argent Energy, Doom 2016 happens.
TAG2: The Dark Lord is the creator of everything, The Dark Lord went around killing and conquering everything in his realm, the Makyrs and The Father betrayed the Dark Lord and sealed him in the first realm which later became hell, the Dark Lord whispered to the Khan Makyr about using Demons, Argent Energy and their worshippers, he also warns her about someone getting strong enough to oppose her, The Dark Lord also orchestrates the creation of the Doom Slayer for revenge reasons and Samur's theft and fleeing to the Earth which then causes everything else.

TL;DR Codexs
MG: Makyrs were behind everything.
TAG1: The Father was behind everything and was God.
TAG2: The Dark Lord was behind everything and is definitely God.

[MattCryptid]

Originally posted by General Darknessvamp:

Regarding the gameplay's story, it's a very tentative 'fine' but it goes out of it's way to completely disregard how the last game ended and changed the Doom Marine into a literal Chosen One destined to beat the Demons rather than some guy who fought to survive.

Idk, with the whole "in the First Age" speech from 2016, he was very clearly not just "some guy" anymore.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by MattCryptid:

Originally posted by General Darknessvamp:

Regarding the gameplay's story, it's a very tentative 'fine' but it goes out of it's way to completely disregard how the last game ended and changed the Doom Marine into a literal Chosen One destined to beat the Demons rather than some guy who fought to survive.

Idk, with the whole "in the First Age" speech from 2016, he was very clearly not just "some guy" anymore.

Yup. I don't get why people think the "chosen one" trope or him being a god started in Eternal. You literally start 2016 with UAC scientists bowing on their knees to your tomb as if they worship the slayer like a god, this isn't some sudden story development. Olivia even says that she has to "contain this", not even calling him a man.

The slayer testaments in 2016 was literally Davoth speaking and warning all of his people that the Doom Slayer is a monster and will destroy all of demon kind if the box is opened again. At that point, he had already tourtred hell for eons and the demons have become afraid. His legend was already made, Eternal's just puts it into action.

[Threvon]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

"In DOOM, you're a space marine, one of Earth's toughest, hardened in combat and trained for action."

Reading that line again reminds me of how much it actually further validates Eternal's lore: Doomguy is a primeval because he is the strongest human on earth and acts as its defender, and has been since the classic games. Whether he is aware of it or not, saving Earth has been his purpose since Doom 1, and further solidified in Doom 64.

Just like how Davoth was Jekkad's defender, Doomguy is Earth's defender, except Doomguy defended earth without god like powers which further solidifies him as the alpha when he does get his powers "unlocked".

Davoth knew all this and wanted to use him as a weapon against the Maykrs. Too bad he didn't realize Doomguy can't be corrupted and controlled, and would rather torment hell for eons instead with that power. Better lock him up and warn all of his people with the Slayer Testaments not to open the coffin, or everyone will die!

Wow. I like that mini-analysis :)

[Threvon]

Originally posted by Kyōki:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

It's not just crap -- it's blasphemy & crap.

Self-esteem issue. And yes, i mention you every time i am responding in a thread that you have been replying in with your complete garbage responses. I interact with most posts on this board because you know? I play and enjoy the game and the community. You meanwhile are obsessed with a game you hate to a point where you have to attack the game and anyone who likes it over and over. You are a pathetic excuse of a human being, with a sad exsistence. And yea - i'll keep on replying to you with these kind of responses. Because i hate you for being a massive troll :)

yikes, what did I miss..?

[Threvon]

Originally posted by General Darknessvamp:

Regarding the gameplay's story, it's a very tentative 'fine' but it goes out of it's way to completely disregard how the last
...
TL;DR Codexs
MG: Makyrs were behind everything.
TAG1: The Father was behind everything and was God.
TAG2: The Dark Lord was behind everything and is definitely God.

Huh. The story does seem a bit flimsy when you put it like that. I guess it's just about whether you like the themes and subjects of the plot enough to disregard the holes.

[SuperFly]

In D:E, I immediately recognized that it expanded what I thought to be self-contained reboot "nephilim" nonsense into a continuation of the entire narrative.
I've always regarded D16's story as tedious garbage that took a dump on the Space Marine roots of the DOOMGuy.

I greatly appreciated that D:E made sure you were playing the same character, and I immediately recognized all the new enemy models as being """homage""" (lifted) from the DOOM engine catalog of Heretic/Hexen (if you did not realize, now you do).

...I thought that kind of rip-off was a weird choice, but then it started to make some sense -- with dimensional gates and an "(Quake3)Arena" the DOOMGuy gets thrown into to Rip & Tear...
...Note that the DOOMGuy/Slayer appears in multiple 'Quake' titles, so there was a recipe for an idSoftware multiverse, of sorts.
All the pieces are there, and it seemed like a fun nod of the head to their decades-long history.

...What they did to the narrative in the DLC is absolutely atrocious.
It's so bad, that I can't help but mention how 'Mass Effect 3' had its last act completely redone because it was so terrible, and Microsoft should take note.

D:E's finale/narrative/characters/setting balls-out rips off every element it presents to the game's dwindling audience.
This includes other videogame franchises; feature films; RPG settings, histories, and archetypes; anime; and anything remotely applicable in the bloated zeitgeist of high fantasy pop culture.

...What is this ♥♥♥♥ they have shoveled?
This WAS the groundbreaking franchise about you, the DOOMGuy, a United Space Marine sucking moondust on Mars when literal Hell breaks loose from mankind's hubris.

I'll say it again -- D:E's storyline ends up being worse-than-bad -- it's creatively, intellectually, and theologically insulting.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

.
...What is this ♥♥♥♥ they have shoveled?
This WAS the groundbreaking franchise about you, the DOOMGuy, a United Space Marine sucking moondust on Mars when literal Hell breaks loose from mankind's hubris.

I still is though? The whole franchise revolves around one man not giving a ♥♥♥♥ about what forces above him want and doing his own thing. He won't die even as a human, so hell and everything else divine has to deal with it. For eons. That only seems like a natural progression for the character if he can't be killed off.

Davoth wanted to use him as a weapon by unlocking his true nature, but couldn't control him, which shaped the rest of the story. Doomguy is just a guy, but the Doom Slayer is the devil's failed creation which came after him like Frankenstein's monster precisely because Doom Guy doesn't care who he is or what his purpose is, he is always against evil.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

In D:E, I immediately recognized that it expanded what I thought to be self-contained reboot "nephilim" nonsense into a continuation of the entire narrative.
I've always regarded D16's story as tedious garbage that took a dump on the Space Marine roots of the DOOMGuy.

I greatly appreciated that D:E made sure you were playing the same character, and I immediately recognized all the new enemy models as being """homage""" (lifted) from the DOOM engine catalog of Heretic/Hexen (if you did not realize, now you do).

...I thought that kind of rip-off was a weird choice, but then it started to make some sense -- with dimensional gates and an "(Quake3)Arena" the DOOMGuy gets thrown into to Rip & Tear...
...Note that the DOOMGuy/Slayer appears in multiple 'Quake' titles, so there was a recipe for an idSoftware multiverse, of sorts.
All the pieces are there, and it seemed like a fun nod of the head to their decades-long history.

...What they did to the narrative in the DLC is absolutely atrocious.
It's so bad, that I can't help but mention how 'Mass Effect 3' had its last act completely redone because it was so terrible, and Microsoft should take note.

D:E's finale/narrative/characters/setting balls-out rips off every element it presents to the game's dwindling audience.
This includes other videogame franchises; feature films; RPG settings, histories, and archetypes; anime; and anything remotely applicable in the bloated zeitgeist of high fantasy pop culture.

...What is this ♥♥♥♥ they have shoveled?
This WAS the groundbreaking franchise about you, the DOOMGuy, a United Space Marine sucking moondust on Mars when literal Hell breaks loose from mankind's hubris.

I still is though? The whole franchise revolves around one man not giving a ♥♥♥♥ and doing his own thing. Said space marine kept doing what he did and kept doing it so good he dedicated his life to it. He was so good at it, divine forces took notice and got further involved. That only seems like a natural progression for the character if he can't be killed off....

That's right, and all that was acceptable as presented in D:E's campaign.
The free unlock of a chewed up man-corpse 'zombie slayer' served as a more appropriate catalyst for the visceral horror seen in the reactions of UAC personnel, yadda yadda....

We got it.
Then...

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Davoth wanted to use him as a weapon by unlocking his true nature, but couldn't control him, which shaped the rest of the story. Doomguy is just a guy, but the Doom Slayer is the devil's failed creation which came after him like Frankenstein's monster precisely because Doom Guy doesn't care who he is or what his purpose is, he is always against evil.

...My reviews both mention a fear of that "bridge too far", and with the DLC narrative/setting/tone/characters/"revelations", they steered toward that and floored the gas.
Those decisions have helped take the franchise right off a cliff.
Somebody wrote this tripe, and Hugo Martin "ate (the) stuff up".

At some point the creative direction lost sight of DOOM and went full-scale derivative schlock in the worst ways.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

I still is though? The whole franchise revolves around one man not giving a ♥♥♥♥ and doing his own thing. Said space marine kept doing what he did and kept doing it so good he dedicated his life to it. He was so good at it, divine forces took notice and got further involved. That only seems like a natural progression for the character if he can't be killed off....

That's right, and all that was present and acceptable as presented in D:E's campaign.

The free unlock of the zombie slayer was very much a giveaway, because it served as a more appropriate catalyst for the visceral horror seen in the reactions of UAC personnel.

Then...

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Davoth wanted to use him as a weapon by unlocking his true nature, but couldn't control him, which shaped the rest of the story. Doomguy is just a guy, but the Doom Slayer is the devil's failed creation which came after him like Frankenstein's monster precisely because Doom Guy doesn't care who he is or what his purpose is, he is always against evil.

...My reviews both mention a fear of that "bridge too far", and with the DLC narrative/setting/tone/characters/"revelations", they steered toward that and floored the gas.
Those decisions have helped take the franchise right off a cliff.
Somebody wrote this tripe, and Hugo Martin "ate (the) stuff up".

Those decisions where made before the game even came out though? They knew what the DLC story was going to be when the main campaign came out, it was all written under the same creative lense. The lore book that came with the game's collector's edition literally gives away the revelations in TAG 2.

The issue seems to be moreso that they revealed so much lore at once in a lower budget dlc that it's not coherent with the main game if you don't follow along, and takes time to piece together even if you are. The simplicity most definitely went out the window.

[SuperFly]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Those decisions where made before the game even came out though? They knew what the DLC story was going to be when the main campaign came out, it was all written under the same creative lense....

They were, and they were ultimately bad decisions.
Story development matters, and there's no way this tripe didn't raise a few eyebrows.

If Hugo Martin actually embraced everything going forward, why didn't someone have the balls to tell the boss, "No -- this is a bad idea. Let's keep working on this story."

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

The issue seems to be moreso that they revealed so much lore at once in a lower budget dlc that it's not coherent with the main game if you don't follow along, and takes time to piece together even if you aware. The simplicity most definitely went out the window.

There are so many roads to take from 'simplistic' that aren't "derivative" or "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥", but that's where they went with it.
I would also argue it is incredibly simplistic, as it just apes off whatever media has been popular with man-children for the last 10 years.

When Hugo Martin tells his story of running from his office, spilling My Little Pony toys from his arms to excitedly illustrate game rewards to his bosses, you can believe it.

If the two-DLC narrative is supposed to represent half the game, then they really needed to do twice as much work on it -- and maybe consult other talent. They failed to exercise those crucial steps. Without re-writes, they eventually built a narrative house of cards with no bearing in DOOM.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Those decisions where made before the game even came out though? They knew what the DLC story was going to be when the main campaign came out, it was all written under the same creative lense....

They were, and they were ultimately bad decisions.
Story development matters, and there's no way this tripe didn't raise a few eyebrows.

If Hugo Martin actually embraced everything going forward, why didn't someone have the balls to tell the boss, "No -- this is a bad idea. Let's keep working on this story."

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

The issue seems to be moreso that they revealed so much lore at once in a lower budget dlc that it's not coherent with the main game if you don't follow along, and takes time to piece together even if you aware. The simplicity most definitely went out the window.

There are so many roads to take from 'simplistic' that aren't "derivative" or "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥", but that's where they went with it.
I would also argue it is incredibly simplistic, as it just apes off whatever media has been popular with man-children for the last 10 years.

When Hugo Martin tells his story of running from his office, spilling My Little Pony toys from his arms to excitedly illustrate game rewards to his bosses, you can believe it.

If the two-DLC narrative is supposed to represent half the game, then they really needed to do twice as much work on it -- and maybe consult other talent. They failed to exercise those crucial steps. Without re-writes, they eventually built a narrative house of cards with no bearing in DOOM.

I mean you raise valid points, but this definitely isn't the IP where this kind of stuff actually matters. The story for all intents and purposes is still just there to justfiy the enemies and locations. They came up with something interesting last minute in 2016 by accident, and people liked it enough they stuck with it and fleshed it out. Ridiculous and over the top games have a ridiculous and over the top story.

[SuperFly]

How does it not matter?
DOOM is supposed to be DOOM.

It isn't HALO, Master of the Universe, Warhammer 40k, Marvel CinemativeUniverse, or any of the other franchises they decided to rip off.

Destroying the tone and setting of the IP matters greatly.
"It doesn't matter," is a response with less-than-no substance as it's ignorantly dismissive..

[luh m]

Originally posted by SuperFly:

Originally posted by OfBearAndAWolf:

"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but its not that important" - John Carmack after making first doom game. :D

He later addressed and walked those comments back.
Welcome to the party, but you're pretty late. The storyline of D2016-DOOM:Eternal isn't just bad -- it's intellectually insulting drivel.

DOOM's original hellscapes & biblical story menace were brutal enough that the Vatican ordered it disavowed by the faithful.
D16-DOOM:Eternal is laughably derivative garbage from dozens of disparate fantasy franchises blended into a potpourri of failure.

Don't eat the slop all because it's shoveled in front of you.
Let's hold our heads higher and have enough dignity to say, "This is bad and you suck for trying to sell it to us.".

okay. cool. why, though? why in god’s name do you think it’s bad? you say it is, but have barely given any arguments as to WHY it’s bad? god, it’s always the same with you. you say it’s bad, but circle around long-winded paragraph while forgetting why you even said it’s bad. am i wrong here? are you gonna make another novel stroking your own ego and calling me an idiot?