Ancient God 1's final boss needs a redesign (and thoughts on AG2's potential boss)

[DevilBlackDoom]

After multiple playthroughs this is the only part I dislike. A couple other fights felt unfun but I worked out their kinks after just a bit of experimentation. The final fight is just not fun. Most of your tools are useless which makes it even less fun. The only useful tools are flamethrower and chainsaw, and then again ONLY against the Unwillings. Spirits and Blood Maykr are resistant to Ice grenades, afaik they also seem resistant or at least react better against the grenade's concussive blast. You end up in situations where you could almost get one-shot regardless of raw skill or enemy positioning skill (which is made partly useless anyway with Samur teleporting, and being able to be on the pillars where the blue portals lead to...). I'll probably work out a no-death strategy in the end but in terms of game design it is just a very bad boss IMO.

I fear for the Dark Lord fight. Seeing how he's depicted at the end of the trailer it seems very much like it will be a Doppelganger and well, Doppelganger fights have never been fun. Most developers somehow find joy in them having the exact same feature set, complete with stuns, combos and so on. The concussive blast, rocket lock on, microwave, ice grenade and meathook are all candidates for nightmare features in this fight.

[Cuzzmotion]

ye the final boss was not the best, and i know id has a better potential to make them better or fun.
If they plan to put the darklord as the final boss i hope they make him really hard but in a fun way

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Cuzzmotion:

ye the final boss was not the best, and i know id has a better potential to make them better or fun.
If they plan to put the darklord as the final boss i hope they make him really hard but in a fun way

Yeah ! My main concern with the Doppelganger idea is that the Marauder already plays into that idea a bit, only with a very limited toolset, meaning if they go that route they can't even rely on the dash/SSG gimmick =/

[rambley enjoyer 73]

Super agree with this - most of Ancient Gods is absolutely stellar and fun but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the final boss is a trainwreck. Beating him without dying is a complete dice roll. Feels like you have to play way differently than how everything in the rest of the campaign encourages you to. Getting to him on UN is bad enough for nerves, having to deal with all the BS the fight throws at you is even worse.

Doppelganger fight could be good, could not be. Dusk and Ultrakill have pretty sick ones.

[~Neon Doom~]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzTjgpRF3wU

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Sirhum Alot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzTjgpRF3wU

Figuring out a strategy to beat him is not the issue. The strategy itself is not fun. Plus most people who beat it come very close to death multiple times, by that time the base game had more reliable strategies. After only very little training I was able to beat the Icon of Sin without ever coming below 120 health. And that's because the fight is designed to test your use of EVERY single abilities, but giving you the ability to use those. Samur on the other end is the very opposite of that. Hell they even made weapon switching and rocket barraging almost useless. Even the scope/ballista quickswap doesn't dish out that much damage compared to just plain firing the Ballista without quickswapping. Even the BFG feels like a toy when used against Samur and the Spirits in the last phase. Even saving your BFG uses almost means squat for this fight (didn't test the Unmaykr, I assume it would be slightly better if you manage to land all 3 shots on them).

Originally posted by ❤ Fritzy the Dragon ❤:

Super agree with this - most of Ancient Gods is absolutely stellar and fun but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the final boss is a trainwreck. Beating him without dying is a complete dice roll. Feels like you have to play way differently than how everything in the rest of the campaign encourages you to. Getting to him on UN is bad enough for nerves, having to deal with all the BS the fight throws at you is even worse.

Doppelganger fight could be good, could not be. Dusk and Ultrakill have pretty sick ones.

Yup ! Actually don't have much trouble beating the rest without dying (the hardest fights are the two trials in the swamp and the tyrant + spirit tyrant in the Holt IMO) but this fight ugh. During one of my trainings I had 10 extra lives I all lost in the last phase. Another time lost only two and one time none. The time I lost 10 was far from my first try. The general feeling I get is that you seem to have to stay on the top part (especially since the Blood Maykr doesn't seem to have a way to go there) but a lot of damages kill your momentum in this fight.

I have yet to finish Dusk (close to it but not yet) though to be fair as a player you don't have many stunning/locking tools to begin with so I imagine the fight being good. As for Ultrakill didn't even play it yet, I can see a couple problematic moves for a Doppelganger, but none part of the base arsenal. I guess if they make it so the Dark Lord only has your arsenal without any of the gadgets or mods then it could be fun ! Fingers crossed heh

[Teragat]

I agree, the boss is really unfun to fight compared to everything else in the DLC. The only reason I beat him on UN was because the Pain Elemental got stuck on one of the middle pillars and couldn't move lmao.

[Zapmaster]

The last boss is ♥♥♥♥, as is the arena they put him in. It's literally just a cube with lasers and platforms, id must have really been running out of time to finish the DLC. Should have been delayed and done right, Hayden deserved better.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Teragat:

I agree, the boss is really unfun to fight compared to everything else in the DLC. The only reason I beat him on UN was because the Pain Elemental got stuck on one of the middle pillars and couldn't move lmao.

AHAH :P Nice one ! I'm really sad they went with a gold skin again for the reward though... Like seriously, everyone said it sucked for the base game !

Originally posted by Zapmaster:

The last boss is ♥♥♥♥, as is the arena they put him in. It's literally just a cube with lasers and platforms, id must have really been running out of time to finish the DLC. Should have been delayed and done right, Hayden deserved better.

Yeah the arena is pretty barebone. Almost looks like an asset paste. Hayden did deserve better (especially since we don't know yet why the Slayer decided to betray him, yeah he was kind of an ass to humankind near the end but damn).

[Grantorino]

Let's be honest the bosses the bosses in modern doom where never that good. I didn't even like cyber demon. The guardians where okay but I hated every boss in doom eternal

[Supa]

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

[Grantorino]

Originally posted by Supa:

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

Imo bosses in fps game don't mix because they usually turn out as bullet sponges

[Supa]

Originally posted by Grantorino:

Originally posted by Supa:

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

Imo bosses in fps game don't mix because they usually turn out as bullet sponges

That's why I am asking because I too think that most fps games are just big normal enemies with more hp. At least here it still plays like Doom with multiple enemies to deal with.

[Zapmaster]

Originally posted by Supa:

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

Gladiator is very good in my opinion. Not really a bullet sponge, enough fodder to increase challenge but not become the focus, the jump rope and mace attacks take skill to dodge, you actually fight the boss and not something else, great design of both him and the arena, etc. It's my favorite boss in an fps in a long time.

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Supa:

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

Well I mean what feels good in a FPS ? Shooting big bad enemies. So bullet sponges I really don't mind. I'd say the best boss fight of modern Doom is the Gladiator with Guardians coming close second. The thing is they're adding a bit too many gimmicks and not always in the right place. For example yeah you have multiple enemies to deal with but in very awkward spaces, in a square arena, and where most of your tools suddenly become useless aside from the weapons themselves. So you're losing maneuverability and tool versatility and having to use everything which are both big selling points of Eternal. As far as I can tell Ultrakill bosses also seem reasonably good, Ion Fury's final boss while not being especially amazing is still decent. Dusk's first act boss is pretty great too. Og Doom's Cyberdemon is nice and the Spider Mastermind is fine (not great but fine) although I feel like Thy Flesh Consumed enhanced it so much. Hell even the Icon of Sin and Spider Mastermind from modern Doom both are decent enough (Icon of Sin gets a lot of undeserved flak which, once you understand most stuff respawn in the arena is pretty good). I'll agree the Cyberdemon from 2016 was pretty crap though :(

This boss fight however is just awful. It's legit one of the worst FPS boss fight IMO, if only for that last phase (though the cacodemon phase is pretty irritating too -_- )

[DevilBlackDoom]

Originally posted by Zapmaster:

Originally posted by Supa:

If the boss is bad then what are some good bosses in fps games? I think that this was still very good.

Gladiator is very good in my opinion. Not really a bullet sponge, enough fodder to increase challenge but not become the focus, the jump rope and mace attacks take skill to dodge, you actually fight the boss and not something else, great design of both him and the arena, etc. It's my favorite boss in an fps in a long time.

^ This ! I agree so much. I feel like he's pretty amazing.