The doomslayer is slowly becoming a mary sue

[Darkronous the Supreme Senpai]

The problem with the slayer, is that the more awesome they try to make him the less intersting he becomes, he was once a simple marine with anger issues, now he is a unstoppable god with powers of heaven and who may be molded after the dark lord, he has no flaws, what flaws he does have are shown to be ALWAYS the right decision, its sad how they made a once intersting character into a bland mess so they can show how awesome he is, And to anyone who is gonna say "Who cares about character it's a doom game" my response is, this ain't the 90's anymore we are allowed rto have flawed characters in media now, if doom has to have a story. make the main character intersting, because at best he's a plot device and at worst... he's rey skywalker

[UNBREAKABLE]

It's a power fantasy, that's kind of the point, he is a literal plot device in the sense you feel like him and about nothing more than that. Feeling unstoppable is how the game becomes fun, the story reflects this by basically making the whole story a result of his ungodly kill count.

[Darkronous the Supreme Senpai]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

It's a power fantasy, that's kind of the point, he is a literal plot device in the sense you feel like him. Feeling unstoppable is how the game becomes fun, the story reflects this by basically making the whole story a result of his ungodly kill count.

Problem is, with doom eternal's difficulty, this isn't a power fantasy, doom 2016 was a fantasy doom eternal is not, so it leads to Ludonarrative dissonance

[Chubzdoomer]

Forget the Doomslayer, the plot as a whole has become hilariously convoluted.

[Cuzzmotion]

mm.. im not sure, i mean i would maybe agree if the slayer of this new Dooms were from a another universe (Like the doom marine of doom 3) and some of the lore was different, since if it was a simple soldier and all of this things were new to the slayer yeah it will be kinda ´cheap´ that he always do the right decisions (like doom 3), but actually since the slayer is the same angry dude from the classic ones, it's totally fine that all the things he do are just the correct ones.
He's a veteran on all of this, he saved his world many times and he has to do all of this again, well it's not a surprise that he knows exactly what he's has to do to save humanity from the demons or the ones who tried to destroy it since he actually has experience. haha not like the new star wars were a Rey just learned and understood almost all about the Jedis and the force in 1 movie, without even proper training or knowledge.

Even that now they give him even more power thx to the seraphim, it doesn't change who is he and what is his main goal on all of this, and yeah as UNBREAKABLE said, in 2016 and eternal they shown how powerful and angry doomguy can be thx to the power and skills he had on the past, from killing a big mecha spider to defeat Gods and even titans. so yeah we could say it's a power fantasy on that part.
Specially when they keep all of these on the more simplistic way of been a pissed of dude who wants to kill demons once and for all

also it if you could to make this even more interesting, could you show some examples maybe on some of the problems, or even better things that it could make the character even more interesting?

(oh and srry if i miss understood something of your topic)

[fushigi friend]

The doom slayer has been slaying for longer than you've been alive, and he also got blessed by god's boyfriend. It makes sense how he's capable of all of this.

Though I do see your criticisms. This game is starting to become like Metal Gear. Incredibly convaluted story that goes to the point where you dont know if the creaters actually take themselves seriously or are just comedy masterminds.

[Stint Lint Flipliptip]

So?

[Michael Gordan 23 遊ぼうか]

They need to leave some ambiguity for some of these games.

[spiritplumber]

10 RIP
20 TEAR
30 IF DONE=0 THEN GOTO 10

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Darkronous the Supreme Senpai:

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

It's a power fantasy, that's kind of the point, he is a literal plot device in the sense you feel like him. Feeling unstoppable is how the game becomes fun, the story reflects this by basically making the whole story a result of his ungodly kill count.

Problem is, with doom eternal's difficulty, this isn't a power fantasy, doom 2016 was a fantasy doom eternal is not, so it leads to Ludonarrative dissonance

It’s a power fantasy you have to earn, you may not like that, but as Hugo says, the power fantasy earned is more satisfying than the one handed to you.

And he’s completely right; because when you get good at this game you really do feel like a god.

[[RKB]Il Saggio]

He becomes a Mary Sue only if you beat the game and the DLC on Ultra-Nightmare. Otherwise he is just a game protagonist. I haven't earned Mary Sue yet.

[`Creative]

I'm not sure how the OG Doom storyline (simple marine with anger issues) was interesting as you say.. That 'storyline' consisted of = a human soldier gets posted to Mars as punishment, Hell invades and he (a simple human) fends them off, then dives into Hell (still a simple human) and does the same to bigger/badder demons.

Not exactly a plausible or interesting storyline ^ that a human soldier could survive all of that... so yes they built an entire backstory to equip him with the power to realistically contend with Hell, while giving ID the excuse to create a universe for Doom (as they said they wanted to do).

---

"what flaws he does have are shown to be ALWAYS the right decision"
That's because his motives/reasoning are incredibly simple - Hell are an existential threat to all creation and must be stopped, any opportunity to thwart their plans are taken (which are as obvious for you to identify as they are for the Slayer to make the choice)... Not sure why that's problematic.

The partial point of flawed characters in a game is to throw story-curve balls through flawed/incorrect decisions - making the story more interesting/climactic. This game has plenty of that without the Slayers help (though some of his actions did have negative consequences).

ID always wanted to keep the Slayers' character incredibly simple, making it easier for the player to feel as if they were that character - not just playing them.

They've continued to do that, while simply making him incorruptible/all-powerful in order to create a more thrilling storyline..

--

"this ain't the 90's anymore..."
You are correct, and a human solder surviving the endless hordes of demons, bosses like the Mastermind, Icon, Khan etc simply isn't realistic/engaging - he needed to be more.

Personally I rarely thought about the Slayers' character beyond the basics that ID built him with. It was enough to know that I(the Slayer) as an immovable, unstoppable force that could be slowed, but never stopped.

[Grampire]

Originally posted by Darkronous the Supreme Senpai:

The problem with the slayer, is that the more awesome they try to make him the less intersting he becomes, he was once a simple marine with anger issues, now he is a unstoppable god with powers of heaven and who may be molded after the dark lord, he has no flaws, what flaws he does have are shown to be ALWAYS the right decision, its sad how they made a once intersting character into a bland mess so they can show how awesome he is, And to anyone who is gonna say "Who cares about character it's a doom game" my response is, this ain't the 90's anymore we are allowed rto have flawed characters in media now, if doom has to have a story. make the main character intersting, because at best he's a plot device and at worst... he's rey skywalker

I mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ have you ever played a Doom game?

The first game was literally a space marine that somehow carries massive amounts of guns and ammo and destroys a demonic invasion single-handedly. And every subsequent version has been hardly different.

Explain to me how he's ever been "interesting" or not a Mary Sue. The Doom Marine has always been extremely one-dimensional, that's his charm.

If you want a space opera with interesting characters go play Mass Effect or something.

[Zapmaster]

Doomguy was definitely way cooler when he was just another regular dude. So even though I like the lore they've built here and enjoy the story. I do hope that after the next game and the current story is concluded, the series goes back to basics again.

[Grantorino]

He was cooler in Doom 2016 when he lad less weapons and less gimmicks.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Grantorino:

He was cooler in Doom 2016 when he lad less weapons and less gimmicks.

Idk man, all he kind of did was spam the super shotgun and gauss cannon for 10 hours, cheap yeah but not very cool.