Nerf the ballista

[Randy]

get mad at me all you want,
I know 90% of battle mode players rely on its 600 dmg per shot,
And honestly, that's a pretty damn good way to kill a community.
9/10 matches is just being three shot by ballista, where the hells the balance.
There's no point in playing when the games so one sided.
What makes it worst are the dudes who run the same routine every match with a thousand hours already, solely focused on battlemode with the ballista, like why focus on kiling the community?
Nobody cares that you're a "Slayer god" most of us just want to enjoy a casual battle, but how is that possible when 3/5 of the demons are sluggish blobs who cant even avoid one of these tripple shot ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t crutch guns.

[Randy]

We've tried using plenty of strats, regardless of tactic 600 dmg per shot is absurd.
I've even used it myself for a few rounds just to see if it was really that over powered, and I won three rounds in under a minute and a half, It has nothing to do with skill, just a poorly optimised damage integer

[ThePoofyCanadian]

One the ways that I have seen people suggest is to disable quick switching, and only allow the weapon wheel.
But then we will have slayers complaining...

[Mashpit]

Ballista *is* extremely powerful, and there's very little that the demons could do to avoid getting hit by 1000 damage across the map with a scoped shot + ballista combo except hiding from the slayer's sightlines entirely. I personally think, though, that instead of nerfing the weapon's damage values, they should lower the slayer's starting ammo values across the board so that missing shots becomes more punishing.

[MortalEmperor | Bethesda]

Thanks for the feedback. We're constantly evaluating the balance of BATTLEMODE; right now we feel that balance on PC is in a good spot, where the demons have to use teamwork and tactics to overcome the DPS that the Slayer can dish out.

Just a reminder, there's a lot of back-and-forth in this thread and while discussion and debate is fine, personal attacks against other players is not okay. Let's keep it civil, thanks. Now, on to some tips!

When going up against a Slayer using the ballista, be aware of the sight lines (especially at distance) that can leave you open to a ballista shot, especially at the start of the round. The ballista is a high-powered, single-target shot with a delay; two demons can take advantage of that by varying their approach and flanking to keep the Slayer off-balance. One can draw shots while the other closes in and pressures the Slayer while both close the gap. Up-close the overall DPS with the ballista is lessened compared to other weapons, which forces good Slayers to switch.

Randy, I saw you were playing Archvile (one of my personal favorite demons), so here are some Archvile-specific tips:

• Use Teleport to come at the Slayer from unexpected angles.
  
• Flame Wall blocks the Slayer's attacks. Use it when crossing areas where the DOOM Slayer has line of sight. Taking the Flame Specialist perk will reflect the Slayer's attack back at them.
  
• Lake of Fire or a well-placed tactical hazard can break the Slayer's focus and cause them to move, both of which can affect their shot. The Broiling Heat perk will also reduce the Slayer's damage by 25% after being damaged by Lake of Fire (among other things it does), which will also lessen the impact of getting hit by a ballista shot.
  
• Take the Summoner action set to get access to Healing Zone and Shield Soldier duo; put the Shield Soldiers in the Slayer's LoS, move in, and use heal if you do get hit.

Hope that helps! Above all, coordinate with your teammate and strategize!

[Mashpit]

Publicado originalmente por MortalEmperor | Bethesda:

snip

it may have poor dps up close if you don't hotswap, but it has instant 600 damage with virtually no downsides if you're hotswapping.

[Grampire]

Publicado originalmente por Mashpit:

Ballista *is* extremely powerful, and there's very little that the demons could do to avoid getting hit by 1000 damage across the map with a scoped shot + ballista combo except hiding from the slayer's sightlines entirely. I personally think, though, that instead of nerfing the weapon's damage values, they should lower the slayer's starting ammo values across the board so that missing shots becomes more punishing.

The aimed shot for ballista isnt really the problem though, it's that the unscoped shot is hitscan. The gun is extremely easy to use in many situations as a follow up to other attacks which results in massive burst damage that's hard to respond to as a demon.

Normally I'm of the adapt and succeed mentality, and while I think the OP's tone is childish the ballista is easily one of the biggest problem areas with BM right now because of how severely it limits counter play.

The fact there's a dev response here tells me this is clearly on their radar. And it should be. A baseline 20-30% damage reduction to ballista in MP will still make it a threatening weapon on BM but give it a little less oppressive burst, which I think is a start.

[nobleberry]

I use ballista as slayer, and how battlemode looks.

If demons are not working together, I kill both of them quickly.

If demons cooperate, one is running away until another one respawns, at some point I got tired, and they kill me.

This is essense of any battlemode match, and that's why I don't like it. It is either too easy or too tedious.

[nobleberry]

If I play as demon, I like to pick pain elemental and I hover over doomguy, so he almost can't aim at me. It works better on relatively open maps. In tandem with agressive demon we are able to keep pressure on slayer and he has no chances. again, if one demon killed, we wait for respawn. also I take respawn ability. Careful demons can prolong match forever.

Battlemode may be a fun mode, but it is the only one multiplayer mode. Doom 2016 had a bunch of modes, including a couple of demon possession modes. The only downside of 2016 multiplayer is loadouts.

[mcgeehe]

dodge more

[Apathy]

You can't fault Slayer players for using the best tools they have available to them. It would be like asking Marauders not to summon their dog or throw their axe. Both sides should be using the best things they have to wear each other down.

Publicado originalmente por tot stalkir:

If I play as demon, I like to pick pain elemental and I hover over doomguy, so he almost can't aim at me. It works better on relatively open maps. In tandem with agressive demon we are able to keep pressure on slayer and he has no chances. again, if one demon killed, we wait for respawn. also I take respawn ability. Careful demons can prolong match forever.

Battlemode may be a fun mode, but it is the only one multiplayer mode. Doom 2016 had a bunch of modes, including a couple of demon possession modes. The only downside of 2016 multiplayer is loadouts.

Most of 2016s MP content came after release. This game still hasn't gotten its first DLC yet and the season pass says we're getting two in season 1. That also implies there will be a season 2.

[Ransom]

ololol he want the balista be nerfed xD
the ssg can do up to 900 dmg with a single hit at close range but he want the balista be nerfed...
the chaingun have a higher dps but he want the balista be nerfed...
even the rocket launcher do more damage on a direct hit but he want the balista be nerfed...
there is only one thing to say:
lol

[Randy]

I appreciate some official input, but c'mon 1000 dmg with line of sight.

I just feel like there can be something to add more variety to the weapon use.
Last night i had some amazing matches that lasted upwards of ten minutes.
the slayers were amazing, we still lost a bunch but the difference was the level of excitement from both ends playing. there was variety in play-styles, everyone was rotating like dreidels,
we felt like we were actually playing a game.

Where did this enjoyment come from?
Not losing 1000 hp ten seconds into the game because my shoulder wasn't far enough past the wall, or poor server latency. It just makes no sense to have a mechanic that can literally end a demon and force the rest of the experience to a game of cat and mouse.

Of course I understand mp balance but you also have to understand your average player doesn't want to be dunged on instantly.

[Commander Hitman2b]

i wonder if people read mod description like one of the baliste mod is literally to shred flying demon apart

[Ransom]

Publicado originalmente por Randy:

I appreciate some official input, but c'mon 1000 dmg with line of sight.

I just feel like there can be something to add more variety to the weapon use.
Last night i had some amazing matches that lasted upwards of ten minutes.
the slayers were amazing, we still lost a bunch but the difference was the level of excitement from both ends playing. there was variety in play-styles, everyone was rotating like dreidels,
we felt like we were actually playing a game.

Where did this enjoyment come from?
Not losing 1000 hp ten seconds into the game because my shoulder wasn't far enough past the wall, or poor server latency. It just makes no sense to have a mechanic that can literally end a demon and force the rest of the experience to a game of cat and mouse.

Of course I understand mp balance but you also have to understand your average player doesn't want to be dunged on instantly.

i think one hit with the lock on mod of the rocket launcher do more dmg...
but its true, it need some sort of a elo ranking system.
if i play as the slayer vs skilled demon players they put me under heavy pressure and the game feels pretty balanced. regardless of 600 or 1k damage hits. u always need to know what to do. if u suck ull die fast, doesnt matter if ur the slayer or a demon...

[Randy]

Think about the time it takes for a rocket lock on, and think about the time to hipfire a ballista