I came here to rip and tear....

[Dastardly Daemon]

To wade through waves of mighty enemies, and slaughter them. To rend them limb from limb. To remove their entrails through their throats. To face down powerful demons and stand upon their piled corpses. In Doom 2016, this was the feeling I had. It was challenging in an immensely pleasing way.

This feels like a chore. The limitations forced on you, and the way you are forced to play ruins the flow of combat. I mean, they even call it mastering the "Combat Loop". They made a NAME for the manner in which they want you to play. This was intentional. This is NOT what I came here for.

If you love it, good for you. Money well spent. But for me, this is a disappointment.

Music was great tho.

[Sir Tontonolous]

引用自 Too Metal：

引用自 ToveriJuri：

33 is absolutely a boomer to the kids who use it as internet slang.

You mean the dumb foks who overuse memes because they think their edgy?

Not edgy, just people that are desperately trying to stay relevant, which is ironic considering the subject matter of the meme.

[Chicxulub]

引用自 Biomechannibal：

I loved the simplicity of DOOM 2016; there's just too much going on at any given moment for me now. I was finishing the 5th Mission of DOOM when this started downloading. Finished my run of the first title, went right into this, and was pretty disappointed at the changes.

The chainsaw is no longer special, it's just something you do every 5th enemy.
The Flamethrower could have gotten thrown in under equipment like my grenades, thus reducing the number of hotkeys I need to remember by 1. Enemies killed by grenades should drop armor.
The Rune System here doesn't allow for the same level of mix-and-match strategy that the first game offered.
The Suit Upgrade Page is not clearly laid out; I had purchased 3 suit upgrades before I even realized that they were affecting my stats. I had previously thought I was only working towards the clearly-labeled bonus every 2 points. So I ended up buying upgrades I didn't actually want.
Retina-searing neon UI.

Most of it can be addressed with a rebalance mod though, so my plays will likely be waiting for something like that to come out. Got nothing against people who wanted more strategy in their shooter, but I liked DOOM 2016 because it was true run and gun, and nothing in between.

This last one isn't really a complaint, but;
Anyone else think the Mancubus looks like the poorly conceived love child of Blastoise and an autistic walrus? The other demons look great, but the Mancubus design feels like a real step down.

This is mostly tongue-in-cheek and no offense is intended. The rude parts leaked out due to my annoyance with the vacuous postings.
You made good points and actually offered suggestions w/o ranting. I hope someone makes the balancing thing you're looking for so you can enjoy the game.

> The chainsaw is no longer special, it's just something you do every 5th enemy.
You can save up gas and kill larger things so it becomes "special" but now you need to think about trading off a more powerful CS vs more ammo.
> The Flamethrower could have gotten thrown in under equipment like my grenades, thus
> reducing the number of hotkeys I need to remember by 1
And slow the game down by needing to cycle through more options to get to the item you want, and if you miss you have to cycle through the extra option *again*. The dedicated hot key is there for speed. If you can't remember 1 more hotkey, well, then, no comment ;->
> Enemies killed by grenades should drop armor.
Maybe. I'm sure they considered it. The range on the belcher is larger than it seems. Hit grenade & belch at the same time (since they're on different keys ;-)
>The Rune System here doesn't allow for the same level of mix-and-match strategy that the
> first game offered.
Not sure what you mean. You had a limited active subset in 2016 and the same now.
> Suit upgrade tab: RTFM
> UI: RTFM, you can change the shades of neon.

RTFM also includes WTFT: watch to the fine tutorial.
Note: RTFM is not meant to be insulting. RTM just isn't a thing, although it is a TLA, which is a plus.

These are the differences I can think of. It is harder, though. Knowing fun is more important than hardness, and having no problem WRT hardness, I just lowered the difficulty until it was fun and challenging.

2016:
run, shoot, 'nade (x2), melee*
platforming: mantle, jump (x2),
CS-> kill + ammo,
glory kill (health)
Waste a rune to get ammo drops
Depend more on map designer for resources.

Eternal:
run, shoot, 'nade (x2), belch, blood punch*
platforming: mantle, jump (x2), dash, climb, swing
CS-> kill + ammo, 1 "round" automatically regenerates
glory kill (health)
Depend on your own skills for resources.

*WAY* more differences twixt OG DooM and 2016. Ergo, 2016 sucks.
WTF? I have to jump? Twice sometimes? And mantle?! And aim up and down to hit things? And have weapon mods? More than one? What, there's another key just to use the mod? And yet another to swap them? Runes and upgrades? Why are the monsters 3d? Why can I go *under* other objects. Where's the MIDI? Where can I get the distribution floppies? Are you serious? I need a video card?

FWIW (nothing, really, because it's just an opinion) I like the platforming. It's another kind of "thinking" and exercises another set of skills. It's a nice change of pace.
*My biggest problem is the replacing of simple melee with blood punch. I often waste the BP on something that I just want to smack or by missing a GK by a nanosecond.

A "fly" cheat, even in the initial campaign, would be nice for those who don't like to platform.
You just get no credit (if there even is any) for skipping the platforming.
Tron2.0 allowed you to skip the light cycles because they were too annoying.

Bottom line, though, there's still 2016 with snap map and people are making some pretty good stuff. And if id sees enough complaints maybe they'll re-hire John Romero to make new maps.
But things are way better than in the OG DooM days, there are 100s of alternative games that don't suck.

[Devourment]

引用自 ☣ N\A ☣：

OP : I want ripping and tearing up demons and shower in demon blood.
ID : Okay boys , let's ramp it up 10 times
Also OP : It's a disappointment

Jokes aside , the *so called "gameplay loop" is perfect. You got exactly what you got in Doom 2016 but faster and better. You literally doing the same thing. Go into an arena , clear up massive hordes of demons , then you walk trough a corridor enter another arena kill demons repeat. You doing this but with way more variety in Eternal. Platforming puzzles , in between enemies , secret hunting , etc.

Btw What limitations you talking about? Because besides of the ""Ammo limitations""" what was debunked many times , i can't see any limitations. You have way more tools at your disposal , and the fights have way more depth than ever before. You have the tools to be more creative in you fights and the only thing what the game punishes if you are not creative enough.

Lastly : Every game in the world be that a video game , sport or any kind of game, always have rules. Follow them you will have fun , if you don't then you will loose.

Combat Limitations:
You are forced to go through a checklist, you can't alter that order.
1) Shoot enemy class X
1a) to shoot enemy class first upgrade this specific weapon with this specific upgade
1b) to kill it first shoot into his weak part
1c) you now are out of ammo
2) chainsaw lesser enemy to obtain more ammo
2a) you get surrounded no way to escape, hit leaves you at 5 hp
2b) glorykill burn (oh wait first you should upgrade super shotgun to burn while graplinghooking enemy) then you collect health and armor
3) do some dash and other idiotic acrobatics until you encounter again enemy class X
4) out of ammo repeat from point (1)

Monster order: this is the order you should take down bigger enemies:
1) shoot arachnatron turret only with combat shutgun granade
2) shoot weakness of mancubus only with super cannon scope then kill it with supershotgun/rocketlauncher
3) shoot down pain elemental, in the process kill cacodemons only with ballista
4) kill whiplash only wih rocketlauncher
5) kill demon hunter plasma rifle and perhaps rockelauncher when shields are down
6) now the marauder... dodge long range attack, wait until eyes are green and shoot only with super shotgun

yeah, combat is limited and cheap. Not boring... but not as fun as it was in Doom 2016 (or classic doom on that matter).
classic doom and Doom 2016 you were the director of combate pace.
In Doom Eternal you are forced to follow the step by step loop. That in no way has more depth... is annoying.

PD: playing on nightmare, and combat is so flawed that it get easier and easier the more you advance! wich should be the other way around!!! Doom 2016 got this perfectly.

[ell]

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

your terrible list

I literally did not give a ♥♥♥♥ about weaknesses and ♥♥♥♥, still finished the game yeeting enemies with SSG+Ballista+Chaingun ONLY at Nightmare difficulty

[Devourment]

引用自 pHEN0MEENAL：

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

your terrible list

I literally did not give a ♥♥♥♥ about weaknesses and ♥♥♥♥, still finished the game yeeting enemies with SSG+Ballista+Chaingun ONLY at Nightmare difficulty

you didnt even read it... well done fanboi

[Devourment]

引用自 pHEN0MEENAL：

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

your terrible list

I literally did not give a ♥♥♥♥ about weaknesses and ♥♥♥♥, still finished the game yeeting enemies with SSG+Ballista+Chaingun ONLY at Nightmare difficulty

tell me how you beat first levels without any of those weapons?

[ell]

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

引用自 pHEN0MEENAL：

I literally did not give a ♥♥♥♥ about weaknesses and ♥♥♥♥, still finished the game yeeting enemies with SSG+Ballista+Chaingun ONLY at Nightmare difficulty

tell me how you beat first levels without any of those weapons?

Abuse dash, grenades, and the combat shotgun full auto mod because I hate sticky grenades and IDGAF if they instakill weaknesses. You also get the rifle really early, and with micromissiles its not that bad.

[Devourment]

引用自 pHEN0MEENAL：

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

tell me how you beat first levels without any of those weapons?

Abuse dash, grenades, and the combat shotgun full auto mod because I hate sticky grenades and IDGAF if they instakill weaknesses. You also get the rifle really early, and with micromissiles its not that bad.

so you didnt finish the game ONLYwith SSG+chaingun+ballista

you still used chainsaw, glorykills and the same loop i listed.

[ell]

I still used chainsaw, glorykills and planned out how to kill my enemies in doom 2016 and original doom because I always played atleast on UV, the same goes for this game

good luck doing plutonia on UV without thinking

the moment I got SSG, that was all I used

[k3rr3k]

引用自 KeepYerFeetOnTheGround：

引用自 ☣ N\A ☣：

Lastly : Every game in the world be that a video game , sport or any kind of game, always have rules. Follow them you will have fun , if you don't then you will loose.

But in most games you have some kind of freedom. Like only-pistol runs, or different builds and weapons as in Dark Souls, or speeding through levels and killing only what is neccessary...

...in Doom Eternal you can only do one thing, at that is was is being allowed by the devs.

This is a massive false equivalence. You can play favoring certain weapons if you like. Explain to me what Doom Eternal doesn't let you do? The only real answer to that question is fully explore the maps because there are a ton of invisible walls.

[Devourment]

引用自 pHEN0MEENAL：

I still used chainsaw, glorykills and planned out how to kill my enemies in doom 2016 and original doom because I always played atleast on UV, the same goes for this game

good luck doing plutonia on UV without thinking

exactly! in Doom 2016 YOU directed combat, in Doom Eternal you are forced to follow a checklist. Wich is the opposite of thinking by yourself.

I beat all classic dooms and expantions in ultraviolence, and some in nightmare. Lots of fun! golden era of video games for sure.

[Devourment]

引用自 k3rr3k：

引用自 KeepYerFeetOnTheGround：

But in most games you have some kind of freedom. Like only-pistol runs, or different builds and weapons as in Dark Souls, or speeding through levels and killing only what is neccessary...

...in Doom Eternal you can only do one thing, at that is was is being allowed by the devs.

This is a massive false equivalence. You can play favoring certain weapons if you like. Explain to me what Doom Eternal doesn't let you do? The only real answer to that question is fully explore the maps because there are a ton of invisible walls.

I'll copy paste my explanation of how Doom Eternal combat is limited in the sense you cant combat as you want but rahter forced to follow a checklist of steps

Combat Limitations:
You are forced to go through a checklist, you can't alter that order.
1) Shoot enemy class X
1a) to shoot enemy class first upgrade this specific weapon with this specific upgade
1b) to kill it first shoot into his weak part
1c) you now are out of ammo
2) chainsaw lesser enemy to obtain more ammo
2a) you get surrounded no way to escape, hit leaves you at 5 hp
2b) glorykill burn (oh wait first you should upgrade super shotgun to burn while graplinghooking enemy) then you collect health and armor
3) do some dash and other idiotic acrobatics until you encounter again enemy class X
4) out of ammo repeat from point (1)

Monster order: this is the order you should take down bigger enemies:
1) shoot arachnatron turret only with combat shutgun granade
2) shoot weakness of mancubus only with super cannon scope then kill it with supershotgun/rocketlauncher
3) shoot down pain elemental, in the process kill cacodemons only with ballista
4) kill whiplash only wih rocketlauncher
5) kill demon hunter plasma rifle and perhaps rockelauncher when shields are down
6) now the marauder... dodge long range attack, wait until eyes are green and shoot only with super shotgun

yeah, combat is limited and cheap. Not boring... but not as fun as it was in Doom 2016 (or classic doom on that matter).
classic doom and Doom 2016 you were the director of combate pace.
In Doom Eternal you are forced to follow the step by step loop. That in no way has more depth... is annoying.

PD: playing on nightmare, and combat is so flawed that it get easier and easier the more you advance! wich should be the other way around!!! Doom 2016 got this perfectly.

[ARNO]

git gud

[The Rattening]

It's a fun game, but it's the farthest departure from actual Doom gameplay since Doom 3.

[Hyper Realistic Blood]

引用自 Juan Bautista Alberdi：

A bunch of garbage that isn't correct

Your complaints start with "I have to prioritize certain targets" which is just a thing in boomer shooters. In classic Doom, you took out hitscanners first, particularly the chaingunners, and then worked down a list of "what is the most dangerous thing trying to murder me right now"

Saying you have to work around weak points is silly. At the start, it's a good idea to use shotgun sticky bombs to take down arachnotron turrets, because you only have like two guns, and you're probably going to dump a lot of ammo into killing one. Later in the game, as you get bigger weapons and have some mastered mods, you can completely ignore weak points, as it's often faster to kill a demon than to try to disable it.

On that note, I find that the rocket launcher does a great job of accidentally breaking mancubus guns, even if you don't aim for them. The flamethrowers are super fragile, and the rocket's splash radius is pretty big, so drop a few rockets into one and don't sweat the details. The fact that you're wasting time and energy using the heavy cannon as a sniper rifle instead of a missile platform is probably why you're struggling.

Getting surrounded and left with little health is just a thing that happens in both modern Doom games. You can't tell me health didn't yo-yo at all in 2016, as the game wanted you to stay up in the demons' faces and glorykill everything. There's even loading screen tips telling you to keep an eye out for weak enemies if you need health, since you can just mash the melee button to stagger and then glorykill the possessed.

Why would you kill cacodemons only with the ballista? Grenades of both sticky and regular flavour put them in a glorykill ready state that you can double jump or air dash out of. Pain elementals have always been problematic, even in Doom 2.

Why kill whiplash with only rocket launcher? Why not also sticky bombs, missile racks, overheated plasma, or blood punch?

Why do you say it's bad that the game gets easier as you get tougher, and that it should be more like 2016? 2016's hardest part was the beginning, when you had a pistol and a shotgun. Imps are dangerous in the early game, and once you get going, it's pretty easy to handle whatever the game throws at you, especially since you can just chainsaw your way out of tougher fights.