Can melee get damage again?

[Omega (M)]

I know this has been posted endlessly here, but let's be real, if you're someone who doesn't mind melee not having damage then that's fine, but a great majority of people are bothered by it and it should come back for those who want it. Sure they want you to use the chainsaw more, but putting in a simple melee damage move won't have me using any less chainsaw as it's my main source of ammo. Again I know there are people that are fine with this but please, a great majority of players keep whacking zombies over and over as players come from Doom 2016. It makes sense a guy as buff as the Doom Slayer can punch walls can also kill demons on low health from a melee punch. If it doesn't hurt to add it back, I don't see why it shouldn't be done. People can argue it's not necessary but if others find it as a convenience to use, it should be fine with adding it back.

[Sad Pug]

You know, I think you should not be allowed to say anything like that until you're at least in stage 3, but most people complaining barely made past stage 1.
In stage 2 you get blood punch
In stage 3 you learn chainsaw is not the only source of ammo and ammo stops being an issue and you use it most often in slayer gates.
But to know that and form any opinion with merit, you would have to, you know, play the game.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

As a general defender of doom eternal so far, I think this suggestion makes a lot of sense.

[Omega (M)]

Originally posted by Sad Pug:

You know, I think you should not be allowed to say anything like that until you're at least in stage 3, but most people complaining barely made past stage 1.
In stage 2 you get blood punch
In stage 3 you learn chainsaw is not the only source of ammo and ammo stops being an issue and you use it most often in slayer gates.
But to know that and form any opinion with merit, you would have to, you know, play the game.

You entirely disregarded the point of my post. An answer like yours is really the one that shouldn't be allowed. I know you get blood punch, but that isn't normal melee damage which is to what I was referring to. I know you don't have to worry about ammo too much later in the game but at the beginning you do. But those have nothing to do with melee damage being added back. If you're fine with melee damage not being in then fine, move along, as you probably wouldn't be bothered if they were to add it back in anyways. Leave those who actually want it back in have their voice in.

[Omega (M)]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

As a general defender of doom eternal so far, I think this suggestion makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for being reasonable. Wish more people who are neutral or don't mind melee damage being back in would think like you. It's common sense for it to be in and those who attack people who want it back in treat them as if it were completely retar*** to even think a buff guy like the Doom Slayer's punch should do actual damage. Hopefully the devs listen and actually implement it some time along the way.

[Frosty]

I mean honestly I do miss being able to actually punch weaker enemies... It does feel like it ruins the flow of the game when I'm running around and am like *PUNCH... everything stops and the enemies just stare at you unfazed* ..."Oh, sorry bruh... Uhm, lemme grab my shotgun or chainsaw or something, punching's not cool..."

[Sad Pug]

Originally posted by Omega (M):

I know you get blood punch, but that isn't normal melee damage which is to what I was referring to.

You have melee damage. Problem fixed.

If you're fine with melee damage not being in then fine, move along, as you probably wouldn't be bothered if they were to add it back in anyways. Leave those who actually want it back in have their voice in.

Considering game is buggy and when you have full blood punch meter slayer can do regular punch instead - it would create issues.

Your complaint turns completely void if you consider you can have pretty much limitless blood punch without glory kills, making your request rather pointless.

[Woldelele]

There's an excellent video on Youtube that goes into the design decisions called Designing DOOM Eternal with Hugo Martin, by Noclip. Hugo talks about why they changed stuff like this hopefully you can see the developers side of their reasoning as to why they removed base melee damage.

[kontra]

I miss being able to stagger the lesser demons to setup glory kills with simple melee. It’s fast and a quick way to get health. Now I have to try to do just enough damage, but everything is so hectic I end up blowing them to pieces with a too powerful weapon instead.

[Frosty]

Their reasoning doesn't mean much when in practice it feels clunky...

As for the Pug's comment about "limitless bloodpunch" DOOM didn't have crazy Melee Damage, you could maybe one-shot some of the shambling zombies, but you had to smack some faces a few times to kill an Imp let alone bigger enemies.

Blood Punch also gains an AOE effect so it's utility is still there, letting it recharge off Glory Kills balances it out fine.

It honestly does little to gameplay to bring melee damage up.

[Dooter]

Yea I found it really odd when I punched my first enemy 5-6 times and we just ended up having a back and forth, me being confused if this was intentional or a bug.

Why does the same guy that can physically rip bigger demons in half mechanically do little to no damage with his punches against smaller demons?

It's much less a "meh mechanics" thing than it is an immersion thing.

Yea don't let me melee stuff like Arachnos without blood punch but let me open glory kills for literal fodder at the very least with normal melee.

[Omega (M)]

Originally posted by Sad Pug:

Originally posted by Omega (M):

I know you get blood punch, but that isn't normal melee damage which is to what I was referring to.

You have melee damage. Problem fixed.

If you're fine with melee damage not being in then fine, move along, as you probably wouldn't be bothered if they were to add it back in anyways. Leave those who actually want it back in have their voice in.

Considering game is buggy and when you have full blood punch meter slayer can do regular punch instead - it would create issues.

Your complaint turns completely void if you consider you can have pretty much limitless blood punch without glory kills, making your request rather pointless.

This isn't regular melee damage, it's a specific punch which you have to recharge through other means.
Your argument on the blood punch thing makes no sense. Did you even play Doom 2016 to think it does nearly enough as damage to compete with the blood punch? I feel like you're just a troll here to hate on melee-should-have-damage believers...

[Halo1m]

The game is designed to specifically function like a rock paper scissors-y sort of play style. You are given tools for dispatching different demons effectively. The melee ability is used as blood punch when the time is right and the ability is charged and usually to kill several fodder demon of finish off a stronger weakened demon. The devs took a long time to design the play style and wanted the melee to be a powerful frontal AOE that can kill multiple enemies in a single swing. The point of it being on a cooldown/building up meter is to encourage movement. I have just started my run on Nightmare and from playing on Ultra-Violence I found myself playing as the devs intended, fast and nimble with precise aim. If you sit still you die, plain and simple. Now I also have been watching people play on Hurt Me Plenty where slowness is much more forgiving and the game-play looks similar to Doom 2016 game-play. The people I've found playing on that difficulty are finding themselves moving slow enough to be concerned with melee-ing enemies several times to find it not doing damage. I've seen a lot of Hurt Me Plenty players using it on fodder demons that are going about the player's speed which is shocking. There's often times when I played on Ultra-Violence that I didn't once think of melee-ing an enemy because I knew that if I slowed down I'd get hit by incoming fire from other larger demons in the area. Usually on the harder difficulties, which I believe the game-play design was made for, I'll never pay attention to something reasonable to melee unless I need ammo or life. At that point though, after being incredibly mobile and playing in the pocket of Eternal's game-play, I might not even know where fodder demons are because I'm literally going so fast that I rarely catch sight of them over the other massive enemies in the arena/map.

TLDR: It's fine how it is and is working as intended. It's rock-paper-scissors, you have a tool for the job and you should be moving so fast that slowing down to melee shouldn't even be a concern.

[Omega (M)]

Originally posted by Woldelele:

There's an excellent video on Youtube that goes into the design decisions called Designing DOOM Eternal with Hugo Martin, by Noclip. Hugo talks about why they changed stuff like this hopefully you can see the developers side of their reasoning as to why they removed base melee damage.

I will see it but regardless of whatever explanation they might give, it just doesn't make in game sense to remove it. You can try your absolute best to convince someone that 1 + 1 = 3 but in practice everyone knows it doesn't make sense to believe such a thing is right.

Originally posted by Frosty:

I mean honestly I do miss being able to actually punch weaker enemies... It does feel like it ruins the flow of the game when I'm running around and am like *PUNCH... everything stops and the enemies just stare at you unfazed* ..."Oh, sorry bruh... Uhm, lemme grab my shotgun or chainsaw or something, punching's not cool..."

Exactly. What you just described is what literally almost the entirety of the fan base is going through. Some might just get used to it but others find it just wrong for such a natural and harmless thing to be removed.

[-SNiGS- JAM]

Originally posted by Woldelele:

There's an excellent video on Youtube that goes into the design decisions called Designing DOOM Eternal with Hugo Martin, by Noclip. Hugo talks about why they changed stuff like this hopefully you can see the developers side of their reasoning as to why they removed base melee damage.

Yeah and Bethesda comes up with ass-backwards reasoning for why they released un-finished games.

There's no reason to not have a melee combat system in this game. You can't give the doom slayer a ******* arm-blade and then not give us a melee combat system. That's a literal crime against the doom slayer.

Worst bug i've seen in a doom game. Give us a patch please that adds a competent multi-layered melee combat system. If you "conservation of ammo" game play loop is so good, then you wouldnt have to FORCE your players to take part in it.

Keep posting about. I know I will. Because it's bordering on false advertisment, as far as melee players interpretation of the media leading up to the release.

[-SNiGS- JAM]

Originally posted by Halo1m:

The game is designed to specifically function like a rock paper scissors-y sort of play style. You are given tools for dispatching different demons effectively. The melee ability is used as blood punch when the time is right and the ability is charged and usually to kill several fodder demon of finish off a stronger weakened demon. The devs took a long time to design the play style and wanted the melee to be a powerful frontal AOE that can kill multiple enemies in a single swing. The point of it being on a cooldown/building up meter is to encourage movement. I have just started my run on Nightmare and from playing on Ultra-Violence I found myself playing as the devs intended, fast and nimble with precise aim. If you sit still you die, plain and simple. Now I also have been watching people play on Hurt Me Plenty where slowness is much more forgiving and the game-play looks similar to Doom 2016 game-play. The people I've found playing on that difficulty are finding themselves moving slow enough to be concerned with melee-ing enemies several times to find it not doing damage. I've seen a lot of Hurt Me Plenty players using it on fodder demons that are going about the player's speed which is shocking. There's often times when I played on Ultra-Violence that I didn't once think of melee-ing an enemy because I knew that if I slowed down I'd get hit by incoming fire from other larger demons in the area. Usually on the harder difficulties, which I believe the game-play design was made for, I'll never pay attention to something reasonable to melee unless I need ammo or life. At that point though, after being incredibly mobile and playing in the pocket of Eternal's game-play, I might not even know where fodder demons are because I'm literally going so fast that I rarely catch sight of them over the other massive enemies in the arena/map.

TLDR: It's fine how it is and is working as intended. It's rock-paper-scissors, you have a tool for the job and you should be moving so fast that slowing down to melee shouldn't even be a concern.

Slowing down to melee? Do you even play melee combat? There is no, slowing down to melee. You melee people in between your mad dashes so you don't get gutted alive.

And yeah i'd say that it "is doing its job". If its job is holding the players hand and forcing them to jump through hoops in order to punch a demons face off.

Like how the hell did we get here. Giving the doom slayer a pitiful melee attack and then using the games other mechanics to justify it. Like what? They literally designed the basic melee to be useless so then your only other choice would be to jump through their hoops.

Its a terrible bug that needs fixing.