CO-OP - All the info you need

[voidreaver]

Hey everyone,

We have written a 4000 WORDS article about our co-op journey so far, our immediate plans, the problems we will have to face before multiplayer goes live and lots of other cool stuff. It's worth a read as it will give you a lot of knowledge about the multiplayer architecture in general. I know I learned a lot writing it.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/780310/view/3381659291157676103

Co-Op mode for The Riftbreaker is expected to release no sooner than Q4 2022.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask! I'll try to answer all the questions that I know the answers to!

[Shadowhunter]

Interesting to read, I am really looking forward to the first iteration of coop that comes up for this. You seem to make a good progress.

While reading there were some questions coming up.
Like you mentioned that you have to sync the mission log on a timed mission completely every 33ms, as an example of a component that is not optimized yet.
Personally I don't really see why it would be needed to be synced completely, because logically I would just go for an approach where the server sends a start event, then the client handles most of the event triggers for himself to show the player on the client what is going on and then run a sync state when the timed event has finished to make sure everyone is on the same page again.
Where is it necessary here to sync the whole thing every game tick?
Or did you mean that currently this is not possible duo to the way it currently is coded and you have to change it to a structure that now supports basic changes to reasearch/mission/inventory states?

And also on the animation states, you mention that for example a projectile that occurs on a certain position of the animation is created by the game logic.
While this is the case, I don't see where the logic itself prevents the client to run all the animation himself, while keeping the game logic on the server.
The only difference to be made would be to sync the projectile creation state with the server, so sending an event to the server from the client when a projectile should be created, letting the server then decide if that already occurred on his side and the projectile is already alive, because the other player which acts as server has already played the animation and created the model, or if it's not there yet and need to be created for potential damage calculations, in case the server player is out of vision and the client player needs to call the server for projectile creations.
So to me it is kinda always clear where to draw the line between animation information that needs to be processed by the server, like a projectile that hits sth. and animation information that has no impact on the game state, like pretty much all animations that just show something moving but don't change a number.
So all the information about bone positioning and such can be run by the client themselves, it basically is just a do this playback animation type thing, the only communication needed is the state of the changed object, is it alive or dead, does it change a number like hp on wall/mech/etc. and then just communicate the results of those state changes between the client and server.

That system is a bit on the peer2peer side though where the clients start exchanging information and game state changes on both sides instead of just doing everything on one as in a pure client server structure, which brings me to the actual point of the question:
Have you considered doing both, client-server and peer2peer?

[EnigmaSeven]

I personally don't want Co-Op in Campaigns but Co-Op in PvP or Tournaments that might come in the future.

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

So is splitscreen/shared screen co op not possible?

I'd personally like the option of it like the X game had and it might be easier to implement faster since it doesn't need networking?

Maybe spitball the idea of going the implement splitscreen then remote play route if you decide that you want to aim for only 2 player co op

Preferably options for local and online play are always best but I'm no programmer so I don't know the pains of doing any of this (other than what's described in the link now)

[MaceX]

Originally posted by BearCatAiJoey:

So is splitscreen/shared screen co op not possible?

I'd personally like the option of it like the X game had and it might be easier to implement faster since it doesn't need networking?

Maybe spitball the idea of going the implement splitscreen then remote play route if you decide that you want to aim for only 2 player co op

Preferably options for local and online play are always best but I'm no programmer so I don't know the pains of doing any of this (other than what's described in the link now)

What you are suggesting now would only effect a smaller group than what they have planned. You would need both people in the same room. It would also increase the load on the main computer as it is now handling all of the processing. Doing the split screen, it will be harder to see the creatures before they attack as you lose half of the screen.

[·Reapers· Seelenlos]

Could you use the engine and "the Game" to make also a Multiplayer like Supreme Comander out of it, or a "new game" with that nice engine and grafix???
Just curious if that would be possible .... as the co-op is not far from co-op-mp-pvp ....

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

Originally posted by MaceX:

Originally posted by BearCatAiJoey:

So is splitscreen/shared screen co op not possible?

I'd personally like the option of it like the X game had and it might be easier to implement faster since it doesn't need networking?

Maybe spitball the idea of going the implement splitscreen then remote play route if you decide that you want to aim for only 2 player co op

Preferably options for local and online play are always best but I'm no programmer so I don't know the pains of doing any of this (other than what's described in the link now)

What you are suggesting now would only effect a smaller group than what they have planned. You would need both people in the same room. It would also increase the load on the main computer as it is now handling all of the processing. Doing the split screen, it will be harder to see the creatures before they attack as you lose half of the screen.

Fair enough points!
I hope they atleast add LAN though
So this can be played co op by people in the same house just with 2 steam decks or computers with 2 copies of the game

[Rite]

co Op WHEN
hire a net dev if you have too
jesus

[·Reapers· Seelenlos]

Originally posted by Rite:

co Op WHEN
hire a net dev if you have too
jesus

They must be expensive ...

[bb10]

Originally posted by BearCatAiJoey:

Fair enough points!
I hope they atleast add LAN though
So this can be played co op by people in the same house just with 2 steam decks or computers with 2 copies of the game

LAN co-op would be great indeed!

[droaan]

Originally posted by MaceX:

Originally posted by BearCatAiJoey:

So is splitscreen/shared screen co op not possible?

I'd personally like the option of it like the X game had and it might be easier to implement faster since it doesn't need networking?

Maybe spitball the idea of going the implement splitscreen then remote play route if you decide that you want to aim for only 2 player co op

Preferably options for local and online play are always best but I'm no programmer so I don't know the pains of doing any of this (other than what's described in the link now)

What you are suggesting now would only effect a smaller group than what they have planned. You would need both people in the same room. It would also increase the load on the main computer as it is now handling all of the processing. Doing the split screen, it will be harder to see the creatures before they attack as you lose half of the screen.

I would rather they make it shared screen than not at all.
They should handle couch co-op as shared screen space, like how diablo 3 does it.

[Yawzee]

Looking forward to it! :)

[IIFriggII]

honestly coop will do little for this.
yesyes coop idea is awesome but the actual playing it; not many will do ^^

personally i would MUCH rather see you use the time on improving and endless mode; making building size and effect upgradable to avoid the insane lack of filling out a map with literally thousinds of buildings just to run your power for your defenses ;)

to something with that endgame portal instead of just end the game (very abrupt), let it portal me to new worlds where i need to harvest resources;
lets resources be harvested for other reasons than JUST ME, like let it be send and traded etc.
make interactions with other people for missions etc.

revamp the building system to focus on smaller bases etc.

i want more, i want the part where the game actually starts; where i've made this finished base and use the portal for a new world gathering and upgrading as i go through many worlds in an endless playthrough of gathering and providing resources for the homeworld.

coop is not interesting; its a cool word in the text, but honestly the VAST majority of us would never use it even if it was there; and the technical aspect of doing it you could basically double the games content etc. in the same time to make it really work;
its a wasted of time and effort that should be used to make the awesome stuff even better.
i wouldn't pay for coop, but i would pay for more of this or more polished thi; bc the sole experience was super good ^^

edit:
and could you please add the option for the camera to center the aim cursor and for your camera to rotated when you do so you always has top towards character viewing direction (its so much better to play like that, running downwards and fighting downawwards in twinstick is always ♥♥♥♥ because of lack of rotationg camera; even worse when it doesnt follow my view automatically but i have to manually adjust the angles of the cam -_-
like thefk, i just want it to allow where i am looking and the view to try and follow my mouse so i can see where i am looking towards etc ^^

[Derv]

Originally posted by Frigg:

honestly coop will do little for this.
yesyes coop idea is awesome but the actual playing it; not many will do ^^

Gross take. This is the only thing that is stopping me from buying this outside of Game Pass. Never ending, scaling 'endurance' play with a friend will give us 200 hours easily.

[MaceX]

Originally posted by Frigg:

honestly coop will do little for this.
yesyes coop idea is awesome but the actual playing it; not many will do ^^

personally i would MUCH rather see you use the time on improving and endless mode; making building size and effect upgradable to avoid the insane lack of filling out a map with literally thousinds of buildings just to run your power for your defenses ;)

to something with that endgame portal instead of just end the game (very abrupt), let it portal me to new worlds where i need to harvest resources;
lets resources be harvested for other reasons than JUST ME, like let it be send and traded etc.
make interactions with other people for missions etc.

revamp the building system to focus on smaller bases etc.

i want more, i want the part where the game actually starts; where i've made this finished base and use the portal for a new world gathering and upgrading as i go through many worlds in an endless playthrough of gathering and providing resources for the homeworld.

coop is not interesting; its a cool word in the text, but honestly the VAST majority of us would never use it even if it was there; and the technical aspect of doing it you could basically double the games content etc. in the same time to make it really work;
its a wasted of time and effort that should be used to make the awesome stuff even better.
i wouldn't pay for coop, but i would pay for more of this or more polished thi; bc the sole experience was super good ^^

edit:
and could you please add the option for the camera to center the aim cursor and for your camera to rotated when you do so you always has top towards character viewing direction (its so much better to play like that, running downwards and fighting downawwards in twinstick is always ♥♥♥♥ because of lack of rotationg camera; even worse when it doesnt follow my view automatically but i have to manually adjust the angles of the cam -_-
like thefk, i just want it to allow where i am looking and the view to try and follow my mouse so i can see where i am looking towards etc ^^

Don't go through the portal and it isn't an Abrupt ending. Not to mention the additional end content that they have stated that they are adding. Plus another expansion DLC.

If I remember correctly, Co op was never intended. They decided to add it because of player demand.

[Stefan]

Was hoping the release was still this year :(

Feelsbadman