Jack Carrion

[sunblindedone]

((Spoilers))
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Confused as to how to progress ... every option I've tried leads to combat and death. Is there a non-combat way? I have Copperhead whiskey and it doesn't give me the chance to start a drinking contest or something. I'm at a loss, because I really really don't want immediate shoot-on-sight hostility from the Mob. Is this a bug?

[The Mogician]

If you want to do the whiskey route, you need good survival. Go up to his room and say you heard something, then say you heard he was good at drinking copperhead whiskey. Alternatively, if you have good occult skills, you can use the ghost in the room next door to haunt him and make him run away. Finally, you can just fight him and kill him, together with 6 mob goons I think.

[RaVaV( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

If you have Occult and Speechcraft you should visit haunted room next to Carrion's and interact with the bed :)

[Sisyphus]

The alternative is to enter into combat, grab the note from the drawers and then flee. Make sure you wear a mask so you don't piss off the mob.

[Ninth Hour]

I wish that there were a few more ways to complete this quest. Right now, there seem to be only 3 solutions: combat, winning a drinking contest, or the occult method.

As an academic who invested mostly in mental stats and noncombat skills, combat was the only option for me (i.e. I did not have the physique to win the drinking context and had zero skills in the occult). Fortunately, I got lucky. I had Eduardo, Nameless, and the Outsider, who carried the day. Because I crafted quite a lot of laudanum shots, I survived without casualties, although the outsider nearly died (the mob seems to target him preferentially).

It would have been nice if characters with weak physiques and no occult skills could have avoided combat. Some ideas for how other skills could have been used come to mind.

1) Science- option to create some sort of distraction, like identifying, triggering, or emulating a fire alarm in the building, getting Jack to leave his room; or creating some sort of bomb, either lethal or incapacitating, that could be employed in dialogue; or finding a way to pump incapacitating gas through the gap under his door (there should be crafting components that make this possible). Basically something that uses your intelligence/cunning/craftiness.

2) Medicine- poisoning/spiking the whiskey and sending it to his room under the guise of a gift from his employer.

3) Stealth/subterfuge- finding a way to spy on him and then sneak into his room when he is asleep/inebriated, which should happen soon given how much Copperhead he is consuming.

4) Psychology/speechcraft- find a way to deceive/win his trust/cause him to lower his guard.

5) Firearms- there is already a dialogue option where you can threaten him with a gun, which prompts him to pull out his own. A skill check (agility+firearms skills) could have been added where you could beat him to the draw and take him down before combat commences.

These are just examples- I'm not suggesting that they be literally implemented as described but having additional solutions would mean that academics or noncombatants with no occult skills would not have to resort to the very thing at which they are weak- combat. I get that the devs had a time crunch and limited resources but hopefully this quest can be reworked at some point.

[Sisyphus]

You have the option of grabbing the note from the chest and retreating as well.

[Ninth Hour]

Sure, but "the greatest victory is that which requires no battle" (Sun-Tzu, The Art of War). I'm not really complaining, just providing constructive feedback. The quest is manageable but it could have been better. It just struck me as an oversight that there were no creative solutions for people who may have specialized in science, medicine, stealth, or speechcraft (which some have noted is already a marginal skill).

[Hankroyd]

To be honest three solutions : Drink / Ghost / Fight (to death or grab and run) seems a pretty good number of different ways to complete this quest.

[melkathi]

I did Speechcraft the first time, convincing him that Betsy was still alive and Wax Face would be angry at his failure - he ran off to kill a dead person.

Did Occult second time round.

I have tried, out of interest to do the combat route. Jack himself went down easily, giving me the ability to loot the room, but the reinforcements were a pain.

[Sisyphus]

The combat isn't tough as long as you let Nameless and Eduardo tank. It'd probably be the fight I do second last before taking on the ghouls.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by melkathi:

I did Speechcraft the first time, convincing him that Betsy was still alive and Wax Face would be angry at his failure - he ran off to kill a dead person.

Did Occult second time round.

I have tried, out of interest to do the combat route. Jack himself went down easily, giving me the ability to loot the room, but the reinforcements were a pain.

See a 4th option. Makes me wonder if there are more undiscovered ones...

[Sisyphus]

You can also buff up your physique with drugs and try a drinking contest that way

[kokorecho]

Doable with 2 Survival, one of them from the pocket knife you can buy in a gun shop or from Rathsack. As melkathi mentions, Speechcraft is also an option.

[Ishmael]

How much occult plus will/mind do you have to pass the skill check to control the ghost?

[Sisyphus]

I think I did it with 8 will + 4 occult.

[melkathi]

I did it with 8 will + 2 occult