What have they done to Larry!?

[Emmet]

He's nothing like Larry!

[SauceLord]

Comparison sheet of Larry over the years, including illustrations from aforementioned book.

https://imgur.com/a/lJjBwtD

[Valiento]

Originally posted by SauceLord:

Comparison sheet of Larry over the years, including illustrations from aforementioned book.

https://imgur.com/a/lJjBwtD

That comparison sheet doesn't really work because it doesn't show scale of each Larry next to each girl. Which is more accurate way to scale 'height'.

All its really good for is just showing off the artistic changes of the character over time, and only for the boxes. A more accurate way would be to show ingame artwork. With Larry next to the girls.

Also Roberts/Lowe comment I quote above applied to Larry 1-3 period. Which apparently at the time the boxart was more of something that the "Marketing department" did rather than Al Lowe's direct input (according to my discussions with Josh Mandel).

Later artists in the games however chose to emulate the boxart artwork from previous games rather than emulate the artists and Al Lowe's position. They chose to make Larry shorter as well, by 5 inches. Still LSL7 artists made Larry even shorter than he was during the VGA years.


Artistic and creative license is a powerful thing....


Another thing its affected over the years?


Think Guybrush Threepwood, and how he looked between MI1/MI2, and how he looked in MI3, and later games.

[Valiento]

The main point being here though is that Larry is 5'10" the girls are roughly 5'10" too in the early games.

There are characters who are much taller in the 6'5' or taller range.But Larry is 'average' and is only 5' 10".

That is the scale from the early games.

Assuming that 'new larry' scale is 5' 10" then that means any characters that do end up being as tall of him are also 5' 10" roughly. Those taller than him ar etaller than 5' 10". But we dont' know the 'scale' that the developers are using.

[Valiento]

Also let's go with the manual artwork from Larry 1 and Larry 2, and is re-used in the Official Book of Larry...


It's also different than later games in scale. The size of larry's head is much smaller than Larry's head is made in the later games. It's about 2.5 Larry heads to his body. Where as in later games Larry 's head is roughly the same size as his much 'shrunken' body, or roughly 1.5 Larry 'head-lengths'..

[Valiento]

https://imgur.com/a/WF4aTNM

Here is a better scale using ingame artwork, and comparing body size to Larry's head over the years.

I might have forgotten a few other game interpretations of course like most of Larry's transformations throughout Larry 2 and his body building/cross dressing transformations in Larry 3. Nor did I include his head image from Hoyle 1 though while drawn in a more 'realistic' style doesn't show his entire body. Nor does it include any of the closeup images from Larry 2 and Larry 3 used in portraits or game overs that show more detail of his face and his 'big nose'. Many of which though still show his head-length to body ratio is still roughly 2.5 - three heads high.

I leave out most box art as that really varies depending on artist and 'exaggeration'. Sometimes Larry's head is twice as wide as his body even. But in game the visuals tend to only resize his head by height. Most versions from Larry 1-3, Larry's body are at least two larry-head lengths high based on the scale of the head used in the sprite. Some are three.


Whereas post Larry 3 including Larry VGA are under under 2 larry head-lengths roughly 2/3 or 1/2 the size.

This is just shows off artistic license that Larry has underwent in pretty much every game. It doesn't show his 'height' compared to women. That would require a completely different set of images.


For trivia's sake the tallest Larry was in Larry 3, at roughtly 3.5 "larry-head lengths" by that game's scale, which even taller than NuLarry's 3 head-length to body scale.

[SauceLord]

I appreciate your references and analyses but the average fan doesn’t remember these details from this book. Larry is recognizable for what he evolved into. His design in the later games was a strategic move to have mass appeal, and it worked. This game throws that away.

[Valiento]

It's a soft-reboot apparently based on the continuity of Larry 1-2 (although I'm not sure where the developer thinks Larry looks different in Larry 3, when Larry 3 is clearly based on his changed physical appearance in Larry 2, and he's the tallest he's ever been in that game)...

Larry's size and scale was also a bit of a story/plot point to early Larry games. Especially in Larry II where he 'evolves' throughout and by the end of the game, and is given a new 'non-average' body.

https://imgur.com/a/WGrYj0j

I'm not really having all that hope for this game anyways... Even if they had instead tried to copy the Larry 7 style.

I'll likely get it at some point, because I'm curious. But when I do I'll definitley be judging it on its own merits, not how it looks compared to other games in the series...

Magna ♥♥♥ Laude tried to go with the Larry 6/LarryVGA/LSL5 art style, and its honestly not that great.

Reloaded is to me only 'so-so'.... But definitely better than Magna/BOB.... Al Lowe's involvement helped alot.

However, I'm glad we dodged this bullet... Larry 8 Lust in Space 3D version, which apparently was going to be multiplayer game... and probably has the worst version of Larry in my mind (short of BOBs), as a beady eyed creeper...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bluul4RF980

[OneFortyFour]

I always thought the youth Larry got at the end of Larry 2 was just that he was happy and his girl was young i.e Your only as young as the girl your feel(18 and over, we arent all hollywood scum here)?

[Valiento]

No, it was a magical makeover. Magic is not completely outside the series as it also apepars in Larry 3 in the form of the "Magic Marker". He also gave him a full head of hair, LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7wB-YJ23IM

In anycase in this day and age probably people complain that witch doctor gag is racist and cultural appropriation.

[OneFortyFour]

Your are right, thanks for the video.

[SauceLord]

Seeing these later scenes in Larry 2 & 3 makes me realize how much better the series got in Larry 6 & 7. Some of the writing in these earlier games is just bad.

[Valiento]

I only posted the Larry 2 ending.

Here is the one from Larry 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AMgpNx8DMU

But I guess you are right.... Larry games are often looked at with 'nostalgic' rose-tinted glasses by a lot of players

They praise them for being so great, 'everything' , almost no critical commentary. AL Lowe could could do no wrong. But they don't seem to realize how much the series evolved over time. Maybe it's not entirely Al Lowe, but the people who worked with him that made the magic. Better writers hired in later games.

Was it Josh Mandel who started contributing the writing in the series by Larry 5 and Larry6? I don't think he wasn't involved in Larry 7.

[OneFortyFour]

Agreed but to be fair the orginal Larrys were in the 80's and 90's humour has changed a hell of a lot since then. For the time period it was funny and really do you think Sierra did not know most of their fanbase were not of age to be playing Larry

[Valiento]

There were a lot of times , regardless of the game where Al Lowe was unable to write a joke, and that's in all the games.

In Leisure Suit Larry 6, for example, Larry was attached to a hi-colonic machine and the joke was literally "you're not so full of sheet". the problem is this joke fails because there's no possible double entendre or duplicate interpretation.

I believe that it was Josh Mandel that did most the writing for Larry 6.... Not Al Lowe? Ok, double checked definitely lists it as written by Al Lowe, as the primary writer. With Josh Mandel contributing to it.


LSL1VGA remake was written by Josh Mandel, I believe, where it didn't reuse text from the original EGA version.

Larry 5 Josh Mandel contributed to it... Not sure how much Al Lowe took part in the writing for sure. But there are jokes in the game that definitley suggest Al Lowe did most o fthe writing in that game.


Josh also did a lot of the writing for Freddy Pharkas, and Space Quest 6 as well. He was also heavily involve don the writing for Larry 1 Reloaded.


Larry 7 lists Al Lowe as the primary writer from what I can tell. Josh Mandel wasn't involved, I think he left Sierra by that point. Don Munsil is listed as Assistant Writer.

The same thing happened in MCL. MCL allowed Larry to fart on demand. The problem was when you were trying for 100% completion, that's all you'd hear and see and by the 100th time you let one rip, it was too much. I don't even really want to talk about the disturbing amount of male nudity in Larry 3, 6 and MCL, it was creepy and ominous and made the reward system feel out of place like "oh wel, we've tortured you enough. You FINALLY get noodz".

Al didn't work on MCL.

http://allowe.com/games/larry/history-of-larry/magna-♥♥♥-laude.html

April 10, 2004
This is the complete text of an email exchange this weekend:
----- Original Message -----
From: Cary Okmin
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: Writer for LSL: Magna ♥♥♥ Laude
Hey Al,
I write this email with reverence to your contribution to my slightly skewed sexual development. I also write it with a certain degree of humility. My writing partner and I were hired to write the dialogue for LSL:MCL. Needless to say we were thrilled to be involved in a cultural phenomenon. Although our work was completed approximately a year ago, it was not until recently that I learned you were not involved in the project. I am not privy to any of that information, however, I wanted to contact you and, at the very least, thank you for all you contributed (whether credited or not).
It was great fun and a true honor to work in a world you created and inhabited with such passion and skill.
Thank you.
Cary Okmin

Why, thanks, Cary. I appreciate hearing from you. I hope you had as much fun with Larry as I did.
But I'm surprised to learn that you finished up a year ago and the game won't ship for another six months. I used to write until literally hours before the recording sessions--and then sometimes during! <grin>
It's too bad that we couldn't have talked while you were writing, I would have loved nothing more than to be involved but evidently VU has its reasons for keeping me out.
AL

[Valiento]

they're computer programmers first and foremost.

Also Al Lowe was a music teacher before he was a "computer programmer", and a professional sax player, I don't think he did much actual 'programming' in the Larry games. Just 'directing' and music in some games.. He did do some programming on a few kids programs.

My point though is we don't actually know how much Al Lowe actually 'wrote' in the games, in any given game. Al wasn't a part of Space Quest obviously. It was Josh Mandel, and Scott Murphy.