Feedback on Release Version

[Imp0815]

Hey we play in Coop and having fun so far. And the game works pretty good, no crashes and such.
But gameplay/design wise we have found some things the we like to see improved upon:
- Farms and Drills and all "infinite" resource sources really need to be managed like the craft queues. We have hundreds of Logs lying around because there is no way to limit the amount that gets farmed. Same goes for Ores. As Soon as we designate a Storeroom for Ore it gets filled to the brim with Coal and its hard to get rid of it again to make room for other types.
I would suggest to make a tab in the mountain ledger to set a target amount of Plants/Ores so the Draws stop farming when the Storerooms have the desired amount of resources stored. - This is already in the EXP Branch Version 1.1.0.0 but only for Crops

- Hauler Sacks are a little stupid. They provide additional carry weight but do not increase the amount of items that can be carried which is always the limiting factor for big transaction/transportation orders. If possible the Sacks should provide more Inventory Space Too. Otherwise its smarter to just give every hauler movement speed lamps instead.

- Often i have specific areas that are littered with items or items i know i need back in my base sooner or later. But i can't directly order my dwarfs to specifically collect items. a Haul order would be really nice for that.

- I really like the idea of the Crafting and Material System.
What i don't like is the fact that its a convoluted mystery affair that needs this Spread sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LWUSnNsKdkznyIefxjfyvwyhJ1g1MbTIVPpNFxxJWY8/edit#gid=0
to be usable.
I would like to see a overabundance of redundant Tooltip Information.
I want to see the material stats and the Tool outcomes in the Crafting Window. And i always want to see which stat is important for which profession in every window where it maters. You already have the Extend Tool tip System. Use it for that.
Also i noticed that for 90% of tools Mythril and Deamonbone is best in slot. Maybe rework the material stats so we have a more diverse and complex System where each material has a more specific use. We have 4 Stats and roughly 4 endgame Ores. Make them each one best in one stat and the others ones worse.
Also its not clear if Material stats impact something like Minecart or Buildings.
Overall the Crafting system needs a better in game explanation and the information should be right there if you need them.

- To add on that i think it would be cool if we can make alloys. Like custom alloys to make our own Materials. A System where you combine two Materials and a Flux and you get a competently new alloy. It could work really extensive where by you can add nearly everything as a Flux and get a different outcome completely. For example you combine Copper and Iron with Citadel Wood as a Flux and get a Ingot with roughly this stats: MyAlloy : Level 10 Hard 35 Precious 5 Resilient 50 Weight 20
this would be a nice endgame addition to experimenter and get custom Materials to really min/max tools and Gear.

That's all for now, i know there is a experimental branch but i did not touch it yet. would be cool if this stuff was already in there.

[Aonir]

I like your alloy idea, but for now imo the most important thing, like REALLY, would be to finally improve late game performances. Not a little, but a LOT. REALLY. It's needed

[Imp0815]

Originally posted by Aonir:

I like your alloy idea, but for now imo the most important thing, like REALLY, would be to finally improve late game performances. Not a little, but a LOT. REALLY. It's needed

We had little problems in the release Version even with the floor littert with wood.
But in the experimantal branmceh it devolves to a Diashow.

[Lagazus]

Hi all,
I want to share my experiences with the release version after round about 50h play time.
First of all I like to say - it was fun to play!

But after a while some topics annoyed me more and more. I want to share those with you and the developers.

1) Farming: Especially in the late game, farming is a pain. The main problems are replanting and collecting the fruits.
Both needs Dwarfs to do that since you cannot use rail tracks on farming ground. I know, this is hopefully fixed on the
experimental already, but I hope this goes live soon.

2) Storage and crafting: The whole storage system is a pain, especially in combination with the crafting system.
When I allow to store e.g. wood and water, sooner or later the storehouse will be full with wood, since there is
no real use of it. When I specify that my farm should produce 20 buckets of water locally (this should be useful in
endgame), then the farm produces 20 buckets, the carts are colleting it to the storehouse, the farm produces again, ...
This will fill the storehouse quickly what is not intended at all. I think the storage system should be changed,
that you can specify how many units of a product you wanna store in your whole colony and in the specific storehouse.

3) Task management: In late game, when your colony grows, it is really annoying, that you cannot specify which tasks should
be done by your Dwarfs first. There is a priorization list, but here any open task can be ranked. What is needed, is a
system where I can specify overall task prio, e.g. transport over building over farming over cooking over melting over ...
The second topic is, that Dwarfs run through my whole colony to dig just one block of 50 and then run to the other end
of my colony to smith something. After a while the second dwarf comes to dig 2 blocks and then run away again. I think
the dwarfs should work on one selected task until there is nothing to do for that task in the near environment anymore.

4) Trading: Selling goods is a pain. I want to produce something continously and sell it to my partners in the overworld
automatically. The same for buying goods.

5) Overworld: This system is not ready. Just an idea: what about making this a risk like game where you have one ally and
you can select which town of the enemy you want to occupy? By supporting your ally you can prepare for battle. I think
there needs to be an real endgame for that area ...

6) End game: What is the goal of the game? The overworld goal is too easy and not challenging at all. I would like to
have some victory conditions which are really challenging. When you reached those you should be able to say:
Yes! I did it!

I would be interested in your ideas about improving the game.

[Da' Vane]

Originally posted by Lagazus:

Hi all,
I want to share my experiences with the release version after round about 50h play time.
First of all I like to say - it was fun to play!

But after a while some topics annoyed me more and more. I want to share those with you and the developers.

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass this on the to devs, as I try to keep them up to date with what's going on here on the Steam Forums.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

1) Farming: Especially in the late game, farming is a pain. The main problems are replanting and collecting the fruits.
Both needs Dwarfs to do that since you cannot use rail tracks on farming ground. I know, this is hopefully fixed on the
experimental already, but I hope this goes live soon.

This has been fixed on experimental. Farming is much improved, crops are automatically replanted (they all work like Citadel Mushrooms now), and there's improved management from the Cave Farm. It's worth noting that Farmers harvest crops (even wild crops), then the harvest is returned by Haulers.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

2) Storage and crafting: The whole storage system is a pain, especially in combination with the crafting system.
When I allow to store e.g. wood and water, sooner or later the storehouse will be full with wood, since there is
no real use of it. When I specify that my farm should produce 20 buckets of water locally (this should be useful in
endgame), then the farm produces 20 buckets, the carts are colleting it to the storehouse, the farm produces again, ...
This will fill the storehouse quickly what is not intended at all. I think the storage system should be changed,
that you can specify how many units of a product you wanna store in your whole colony and in the specific storehouse.

Two things to note, which should probably be better explained. Storages have the option to take from the ground, take from inventories, and take from the overworld. These are all enabled by default.

Secondly, you have the option to maintain a local amount for a specific building, or a global amount within the Mountainhome, although this doesn't include things on the floor.

It sounds to me like you had both 'take from inventory' and 'maintain local storage' enabled, which would result in the behaviour described. Changing either of these options would change this behaviour to what you desire.

However, left as is, then what you describe is the intended behaviour of this combination, as dwarves will try to fill up storages that allow the items to be stored, and once they are full, will attempt to maintain the amount desired locally.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

3) Task management: In late game, when your colony grows, it is really annoying, that you cannot specify which tasks should
be done by your Dwarfs first. There is a priorization list, but here any open task can be ranked. What is needed, is a
system where I can specify overall task prio, e.g. transport over building over farming over cooking over melting over ...
The second topic is, that Dwarfs run through my whole colony to dig just one block of 50 and then run to the other end
of my colony to smith something. After a while the second dwarf comes to dig 2 blocks and then run away again. I think
the dwarfs should work on one selected task until there is nothing to do for that task in the near environment anymore.

You can set the priority of specific tasks, as well as the priority of specific buildings, so you can sort of prioritise cooking over building in this way.

Secondly, each dwarf does favour jobs that are closer to their position when picking a new job, but this is easily outweighed by the priority of the job. So, if you have a Smithy with high priority jobs (which includes Hauling by default), and a bunch of nearby medium priority dig jobs, the Dwarves will favour the higher priority Smithing job regardless of distance.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

4) Trading: Selling goods is a pain. I want to produce something continously and sell it to my partners in the overworld
automatically. The same for buying goods.

Autoselling has been added in Experimental, which will reserve the crafted item to be automatically sold to the Settlement with the highest price. Plus, demand is now affected by the status of the settlement. Since demand helps determine price, items should be sold where they are most in demand, which is typically, where they are most needed.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

5) Overworld: This system is not ready. Just an idea: what about making this a risk like game where you have one ally and
you can select which town of the enemy you want to occupy? By supporting your ally you can prepare for battle. I think
there needs to be an real endgame for that area ...

You can choose to have one ally, simply by only doing the Dwarven Subversion quest for that ally, and then having them conquer the Overworld on your behalf.

Originally posted by Lagazus:

6) End game: What is the goal of the game? The overworld goal is too easy and not challenging at all. I would like to
have some victory conditions which are really challenging. When you reached those you should be able to say:
Yes! I did it!

I would be interested in your ideas about improving the game.

There are currently two end goals of the game - to conquer the Overworld or to fill a large vault with gold. Some people have already complained that these are too challenging and/or too long. It's very rare to hear someone saying these endings are too easy...

[Lagazus]

Thanks for the reply - nice to hear that many topics are adressed already on experimental.
I will try some of your tips ;-)

Just some notes to the overworld war and the final goals:
I experienced, that the overworld war can be won easily by just making all parties as allies. If you would choose to have only one ally, then you would have no direct control, which party or town to attack, have you? At least I am not aware of it?
The second main goal of filling the large vault is currently almost impossible to reach without having Autoselling, thats true. But even when we`ll have this feature, it is just a matter of time to reach it, or am I wrong?

Anyway, I am looking forward to your next update!

[Aonir]

Filling the large vault isnt easy without autoselling but still doable, items and weapons made of "rare" Ore worth so much that it eventually comes quite easily as you said.
And no, there isnt any way to direct attacks against a desired town.

[Da' Vane]

The second goal can take some time, but optimising your crafting and trading set up will help with that a lot. Autoselling will make it easier, sure, and yes, it's just a matter of time, but it can still be fun to do.

I filled the Large vault by selling weapons and tools. They are easy to make, and can easily earn you a chunk of gold when you have good enough smithing and trading skills. Plus, if you aren't autoselling, then the dwarves will equip the best weapons and tools for themselves...

Others have gone for selling things like rings for large amounts of gold, although these usually take longer to craft - IIRC, the most expensive item to sell is a Oricalchum Ring with a Ruby Star of Mara, at a whopping 650 gold without including any sort of trading bonus. Some players have recorded sales of over 1,000 gold by selling these with dedicated dwarves trained in Whitesmithing and Trading.

As for the Overworld, you don't get to choose the attacks of your allies. However, each faction does follow a set pattern when attacking/defending. Each faction will only spawn a single army at a time, which will fight until defeated.

Firstly, the army will seek out any armies in it's territory, stopping to attack any army in it's way. Next, the army will attack the nearest settlement of anyone they are at war with, aiming to reduce it's fortifactions to 0. Then they will move on to the next nearest, and so on. Once the fortification of ALL of an enemy faction's settlements are reduced to 0, they will head to the Capital of that faction. If they succeed, they will claim some land from that faction, and gain control of any settlements on that land. There will then be a truce, and the army will move to attack another faction.

This is a lot for a single army to do, so it's really a battle of attrition, where those factions with the most settlements have a slight advantage, since they replenish Manpower and Might faster than those with fewer settlements, and thus they can spawn more armies over time...

[buttercreme]

Some input from my side:
- really nice game - i really like to play it! :) - good job!

- Late game lags (million items on the floor - specialy in the farm) could be stacked and counted (i.e. stack with wood on the floor with 550 units)
- copy production list from one building to another building
- hyper train/ellevator - it took realy long time to travel from top to the bottom of an mountain
- another option for fuel (lategame). my coal and lava took to long to the buildings (electricity? or water power - in combination with the overworld?!)
- another fur option?
- overplace the rail (vertical or horizontal) with a "trainstation"
- upgrade any building with a implemented trainstation