Side learning

[TCM Sarge]

What is everyone else using for studying on the side? I'd like to learn more sentence structure and conversational skills before this game comes out.

I'm currently using AnkiApp and the imiwa? app


UPDATE SUMMARY:
can't vouch for all of these, but here's a condensed list
let me know if any of these are incorrect


Genki textbooks
Tobira textbook

FujiTV ($30/month, 89 channels in Japanese)

lingoDeer (interactive lessons/quizzes with audio) ($10/mo, $60/yr)

NHK (Japanese new site)

Japanese from Zero (youtube series)

Kanjitomo (translates to Kanji within games)

Hellotalk (converse with other Japanese speakers)
italki (private Japanese teacher)

imiwa? (in depth, offline dictionary)
AnkiApp (flashcards)
Memrise (vocab)
Bunpro (grammar)
WaniKani (Kanji)
Human Japanese

[OtakuBrony]

The Genki Books. It's a good read for basic sentence structures and grammar lessons. The only downside is the book series (like any other Japanese books) teach you how to speak a little too polite, and about a quater of the content is usless if you do not have a partner to study with, because it's a College/HS book for learning with a class. If you ever want to check them out, keep that in mind.

[N!ck-modmag.net]

using lingoDeer on a phone, like it a lot. It is modern interactive app (not just flashcards)m and it is free. And it is not just words - sentence structure, gramar, etc also

[TCM Sarge]

Started use the genki books, so far they've been really helpful.

Lingodeer incorporates a bit too much kanji from the start, I plan on waiting to learn all that when this game comes out

But thanks for the help guys!

[#!/bin/bash]

Blah blah, everyone is always talking about the Genki books but this isn't the 90s anymore. If I started learning Japanese through a textbook Id've quit long ago.

I started with the Hiragana and Katakana games like some people here. Then I used the Japanese from Zero series on Youtube, which is free by the way, and ended up learning a lot of my grammar through there. After that I reviewed my grammar by going through the Tim Kae lessons to solidify my knowledge.

After that I think it's a matter of consuming as much Japanese as possible. From my profile you can probably tell I do that by watching anime, which I do, and reading Manga.

Basically, your lifestyle needs to change. I'm not exactly sure if it's possible to learn Japanese from just studying a few hours a day. You have to completely envelop yourself in the language. You have to be listening to Japanese more than you listen to English or whatever language is your primary language.

Of course, above all--you have to have fun. I wouldn't have studied more than 2 months if it wasn't fun. There was just so much Anime and Manga that I wanted to enjoy and I felt a bit left out having to use subtitles. Even hearing and understanding the most basic of sentences in an Anime inspired me to keep learning the language.

Or you can just do boring stuff like stick your head into a textbook for 2-3 hours a day and learn close to nothing about how and when to use certain words....

[Lucis Caelum]

I use Memrise for vocab, Bunpro for grammar and WaniKani for Kanji.

[YoukinaFirefly]

I second using WaniKani! It's a really good program (free for the first 3 levels) and for Japanese words and sentences and all that good stuff, I use an app called Human Japanese (on IOS). Can't say I'm very far in my Japanese learning, but both have been really helpful resources :D

[Wanderer]

First thing i did was working through lots of memrise courses. Nowadays i prefer to use Anki though and currently working on the 2k/4k Vocab list.
About WaniKani, well i really dont like that software. But thats probably because i already knew about 400 Kanji before i tried to use it. It forces you to think in different methods, which just slowed me down ( you cant even skip kanjis ).

I worked through Minna no nihongo and Genki 1 and 2. I worked through Minna no nihongo with a private teacher on Italki, it seems more comfortable than the Genki books but it covers less material, so in the end i prefer Genki. I tried using Tae kim but it was not structured enough for me.
I also did half of the Japanese from zero 4 Book but i had to stop, there were quite a few errors in that book which made some exercises impossible. ( Unless you already know the answer )
I can recommend the Japanese from zero Kanji book though. It teaches the first 240 or so Kanji.

Right now i am trying to start with the Tobira books, those are completly in japanese and tailored for JLPT N3. ( except some new vocab )

Textbooks can be boring yes. But just finish those Genki 1 and 2 books in 2-3 Months, and you will already be JLPT N4. If you finish those two books you know pretty much all of the basic grammar and a bunch of vocab.

Watching japanese movies and playing japanese games may seem like a good idea to learn, but its not efficient unless you already are somewhat fluent. If you can only understand 10-30% of what is being said then its of no use and it is too time consuming. In movies you wont understand whats being said, and if you are playing a game you are looking up new kanji all the time, and even then may still not be able to understand the grammar.

If you are feeling somewhat comfortable speaking japanese, i can recommend chatting with japanese people. That is where you really learn new things and straighten out your grammar.
Theres many ways to find japanese people online. For example theres an application for mobile phones called Hellotalk. Some of them are eager to have a voice chat.

So my recommendation is like this
Memrise / Anki 2k/4k core words + Genki 1 > Genki 2 > Tobira > Talking with japanese = Watching japanese television = play japanese games

Edit: Oh and i can also recommend reading fairytales for kids. For example Momotarou.

[#!/bin/bash]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wanderer:

I also did half of the Japanese from zero 4 Book but i had to stop, there were quite a few errors in that book which made some exercises impossible. ( Unless you already know the answer )
I can recommend the Japanese from zero Kanji book though. It teaches the first 240 or so Kanji.

Watching japanese movies and playing japanese games may seem like a good idea to learn, but its not efficient unless you already are somewhat fluent. If you can only understand 10-30% of what is being said then its of no use and it is too time consuming. In movies you wont understand whats being said, and if you are playing a game you are looking up new kanji all the time, and even then may still not be able to understand the grammar.

The Japanese From Zero series is meant to be started from the first book, or video series on Youtube. There is a different teaching style on that series that is different from most textbooks--mainly how irregular and regular verbs work. That textbook (JFZ4) is quite short and I was able to finish it in just a few days, so I recommend going at it again but after you've watched the video series on Youtube or went through the other 3. Of course, since you've gone through the other Genki books I don't think it'll teach you anything new--except the way it teaches it is different.

Also, I highly disagree that watching movies and playing games is an ineffiicient way to learn. If you watch 10,000 hours of Anime or reading 10,000 hours worth of VNs in Japanese, you will learn a lot more than spamming non-contextual words from an Anki deck. With that many hours in any kind of langauage, things will just "sound right." It's how I was able to learn quickly that 来ない isn't き・ない but こ・ない after hearing it so many times--き・ない just doesn't sound right just like すき・が・ない doesn't right but すき・じゃない sounds right instead. If you have nothing to link the words to, like a scene or monologue from an Anime, it's going to be harder to remember. It would've taken me forever to learn ただいま but I still remember that scene in Minami-Ke where the older sister returns home and says it.

[Lucis Caelum]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Superfluous 活気:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wanderer:

I also did half of the Japanese from zero 4 Book but i had to stop, there were quite a few errors in that book which made some exercises impossible. ( Unless you already know the answer )
I can recommend the Japanese from zero Kanji book though. It teaches the first 240 or so Kanji.

Watching japanese movies and playing japanese games may seem like a good idea to learn, but its not efficient unless you already are somewhat fluent. If you can only understand 10-30% of what is being said then its of no use and it is too time consuming. In movies you wont understand whats being said, and if you are playing a game you are looking up new kanji all the time, and even then may still not be able to understand the grammar.

Also, I highly disagree that watching movies and playing games is an ineffiicient way to learn. If you watch 10,000 hours of Anime or reading 10,000 hours worth of VNs in Japanese, you will learn a lot more than spamming non-contextual words from an Anki deck. With that many hours in any kind of langauage, things will just "sound right."

Your example sounds highly inefficient though. 10.000 hours is a huge amount of time, if you watch anime for 6 hours a day, you'd still need around 4.5 years for things to "sound right". If that's your sole way of learning, then you still wouldn't be able to properly talk to people, hell, you wouldn't even be able to read.

Instead you could do 1000 hours of normal learning and get way further ahead than the person that only watches anime for 10.000 hours.

[#!/bin/bash]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lucis Caelum:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Superfluous 活気:

Also, I highly disagree that watching movies and playing games is an ineffiicient way to learn. If you watch 10,000 hours of Anime or reading 10,000 hours worth of VNs in Japanese, you will learn a lot more than spamming non-contextual words from an Anki deck. With that many hours in any kind of langauage, things will just "sound right."

Your example sounds highly inefficient though. 10.000 hours is a huge amount of time, if you watch anime for 6 hours a day, you'd still need around 4.5 years for things to "sound right". If that's your sole way of learning, then you still wouldn't be able to properly talk to people, hell, you wouldn't even be able to read.

Instead you could do 1000 hours of normal learning and get way further ahead than the person that only watches anime for 10.000 hours.

How long do you expect to study Japanese? One year? Two? It takes most people five years to learn Japanese and some are willing to spend six years to get to fluency level. 4.5 years is nothing.

[Lucis Caelum]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Superfluous 活気:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lucis Caelum:

Your example sounds highly inefficient though. 10.000 hours is a huge amount of time, if you watch anime for 6 hours a day, you'd still need around 4.5 years for things to "sound right". If that's your sole way of learning, then you still wouldn't be able to properly talk to people, hell, you wouldn't even be able to read.

Instead you could do 1000 hours of normal learning and get way further ahead than the person that only watches anime for 10.000 hours.

How long do you expect to study Japanese? One year? Two? It takes most people five years to learn Japanese and some are willing to spend six years to get to fluency level. 4.5 years is nothing.

I expect to study for at least another year until I can pass the JLPT1. Anyways, 90% of the time it takes an average person to study Japanese, is nothing? Especially if that time is wasted with watching Anime isntead of actually studying?

[#!/bin/bash]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lucis Caelum:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Superfluous 活気:

How long do you expect to study Japanese? One year? Two? It takes most people five years to learn Japanese and some are willing to spend six years to get to fluency level. 4.5 years is nothing.

I expect to study for at least another year until I can pass the JLPT1. Anyways, 90% of the time it takes an average person to study Japanese, is nothing? Especially if that time is wasted with watching Anime isntead of actually studying?

Wasted time is subjective. I can say that you're better off going for a medical degree, and anything else is a waste of time because it's not a garunteed six figure salary. If you want to rush and be that textbook JPN speaker then so be it. But watching any form of media WILL help you to understand how and when to use certain words and sentences better than two or three books.

[Lucis Caelum]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 神楽ちゃん～:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lucis Caelum:

I expect to study for at least another year until I can pass the JLPT1. Anyways, 90% of the time it takes an average person to study Japanese, is nothing? Especially if that time is wasted with watching Anime isntead of actually studying?

Wasted time is subjective. I can say that you're better off going for a medical degree, and anything else is a waste of time because it's not a garunteed six figure salary. If you want to rush and be that textbook JPN speaker then so be it

A textbook Japanese speaker can actually speak and read real Japanese and rushing is subjective as well since not everyone learns at the same speed.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 神楽ちゃん～:

. But watching any form of media WILL help you to understand how and when to use certain words and sentences better than two or three books.

How so? Textbooks, learning websites etc usually have thousands of example sentences. Websites like Bunpro have dozens of example sentences voiced by real Japanese speakers for each grammar points. You'll actually learn how real people talk in Japan, unlike the overacted stuff you see in Animes.

[Wanderer]

Before i bought the Japanese from zero 4 book, i watched all of the videos on youtube while i was doing other stuff on the computer. But the mistakes in the book when there are missing or wrong words its just ridiculous. Concept is alright if you want to take it slow, but they need to fix the errors.

I do agree that media is the way to become fluent ( if you dont have the chance to live in japan ), but first you need to know all the grammar structures and understand how to conjugate verbs. That way its more likely to guess what is being said.
But yeah dont assume that people talk like anime characters.


Oh and also theres - easy japanese news - on the nhk website. For reading unknown kanji in the browser i use the addon called Rikaichamp. Just hover your mouse over the Kanji and the meaning and reading will be displayed.


Theres is also a software called Kanjitomo, which i used for translating Kanji in games. Sadly it doesnt always recognize the correct meaning.

Lastly, you can also get japanese television online. Its called FujiTV, cost around 30 $ a month, has 89 different channels and backtracking possibility of 10 days or something. It has news channels, anime channels, drama, jidaigeki, discovery channel in japanese... it should have interesting stuff for every person.

[Lucis Caelum]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wanderer:

Before i bought the Japanese from zero 4 book, i watched all of the videos on youtube while i was doing other stuff on the computer. But the mistakes in the book when there are missing or wrong words its just ridiculous. Concept is alright if you want to take it slow, but they need to fix the errors.

I do agree that media is the way to become fluent ( if you dont have the chance to live in japan ), but first you need to know all the grammar structures and understand how to conjugate verbs. That way its more likely to guess what is being said.
But yeah dont assume that people talk like anime characters.


Oh and also theres - easy japanese news - on the nhk website. For reading unknown kanji in the browser i use the addon called Rikaichamp. Just hover your mouse over the Kanji and the meaning and reading will be displayed.


Theres is also a software called Kanjitomo, which i used for translating Kanji in games. Sadly it doesnt always recognize the correct meaning.

Lastly, you can also get japanese television online. Its called FujiTV, cost around 30 $ a month, has 89 different channels and backtracking possibility of 10 days or something. It has news channels, anime channels, drama, jidaigeki, discovery channel in japanese... it should have interesting stuff for every person.

NHK and Rikaichan (it's the same as Rikaichamp) are really awesome, I mostly read news on NHK nowadays.

Your FijiTV suggestion is surprisingly awesome, I just tried it and I'm surprised it's available outside Japan and $207.99 for a whole year of Japanese TV doesn't sound that bad actually.