Demul DOESN'T run Shenmue @60fps

[-__-]

Demul doesn't run Shenmue at 60fps. Never has, and never will.

Modders in the Shenmue community for upwards of a decade or more have come out to support Sega's position that these games were designed top to bottom assuming a hard limit of 30fps, and that removing that limit and running it higher would theoretically break everything.

Much like with the widescreen patch, to run Shenmue at 60fps there would need to be an alteration in the game's executable/ISO. NO SUCH PATCH EXISTS, and it cannot be done through the emulator.

And even IF it did exist, what would happen? Best case scenario is it would run at double speed. Why would it run at double speed? Take a game that assumes a 30fps cap in its logic and scripting, then double the frame rate it runs at. It'll run at double speed.

It's not difficult to understand.

Maybe we can use this thread instead of constantly bumping the other one to tell Voodooman he's an idiot.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Bump so as to defuse disinformaton topics that keep cropping up.

[Millerbro]

As a guy who has played Shenmue 1 and 2 to their completion on NullDC and Demul, I can guarantee they DO NOT run at 60fps. People who are trying to deny this fact have never booted these games on an emulator, and they always apply the same logic every time the discussion pops up: "IF IT'S 15+ YEARS OLD, IT SHOULD RUN LIKE A MODERN GAME OR EVEN BETTER".
No.
Just no.
Emulation doesn't work that way. Please understand this once and for all. The fact that you can run Persona 5 and get great performance on RPCS3 does not mean you'll get the same results with a Dreamcast game. Different documentations, coding, even general interest for the platform are some of the most crucial factors that should be taken into account.
Even 100% cycle-accuracy for SNES games is hard to achieve with most emulators.

[Citizen Cook]

Originally posted by Vamphaery:

Bump so as to defuse disinformaton topics that keep cropping up.

Bump.

We have to do our best o moderate our own boards. It’s the wild west in here.

[Jibble Sandwich]

Originally posted by Vamphaery:

the fact that an emulation wrapper claiming to output at 60 fps =/= the actual source code being ported to x86 running at 60 fps

What are you even talking about? The source code would be in a high level language like C or C++. You wouldn't "port" it to an assembly language, that's the compiler's job.

I personally don't care since this isn't a first-erson shooter or something else where high framerate is necessary, but the posters saying it couldn't be done seem absolutely clueless.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Originally posted by Jibble Sandwich:

Originally posted by Vamphaery:

the fact that an emulation wrapper claiming to output at 60 fps =/= the actual source code being ported to x86 running at 60 fps

What are you even talking about? The source code would be in a high level language like C or C++. You wouldn't "port" it to an assembly language, that's the compiler's job.

I personally don't care since this isn't a first-erson shooter or something else where high framerate is necessary, but the posters saying it couldn't be done seem absolutely clueless.

Preface/caveat: I'm not a coder or software engineer. I'm just passing on the information that has been around for ages. The game was, to my knowledge, coded in C or C++. The language isn't the issue. And I would never say it "couldn't be done." That's not the problem. Anything is possible, as you know, given enough time, talent, and budget, all things being equal.

The game's engine and scripting have built in expectations of a 30Hz update in order to function properly. Many attempts have been made (granted, by modders and other less competent people than the team presumably porting the game) to circumvent this, and it always leads to unintended behavior like sped up walk animations, freezing, scripts not revolving properly, etc. You could interpolate, but you can't just blanket interpolate everything on screen (e.g. certain camera movements vs others, texture uv and vertex coordinates used to achieve certain visual effects back then look horrible when interpolated, etc. were the examples offered.) So you'd have to modify or replace the renderer such that it knows what to interpolate and what not to, as it was not designed to take that into account. The devs themselves have stated that these are the reasons for the issue.

It can definitely be done, that's not the issue. The question is, in a game where virtually nothing else is being changed (some basic quality of life additions notwithstanding,) is it prohibitively costly or time consuming to do, and worth doing? Is 60 fps really worth that committment of time for a game that doesn't otherwise change much other than some new lightweight post processing effects? And would the game release before Shenmue 3 if they did? They actually did a fan poll at one point, and the overwhelming result was that fans preferred prioritizing getting the game out before Shenmue 3 over things like securing brand licenses or 60 fps.

There are alway going to be at least two camps on this issue. 1) The camp that says no expense should be spared, and whatever time necessary to give us a 60 fps port of the game should have been made available. 2) The camp (which I'm in) that acknowledges the desire to get this out well before Shenmue 3, and more pertinently and consequently to this discussion, Sega's reticence to support a larger budget for this release. Despite a vocal niche and cult classic status, that alone doesn't guarantee sufficient sales to justify beyond a certain budget. In a perfect world, they would spend any sum for any length of time to see this pull out all the stops, but we live in reality.

If you're in camp #1, we can respectfully agree to disagree. My hope is that these sell well enough and receive decent enough critical acclaim despite their age, that Sega will see the games as lucrative enough to justify a more fully featured remaster in the future.

[SylveonLover]

Oh Sega I love you. Is this were a Ninendo forum it would be shot down inmediatly XD

[fender178]

Originally posted by Solid Snake:

As a guy who has played Shenmue 1 and 2 to their completion on NullDC and Demul, I can guarantee they DO NOT run at 60fps. People who are trying to deny this fact have never booted these games on an emulator, and they always apply the same logic every time the discussion pops up: "IF IT'S 15+ YEARS OLD, IT SHOULD RUN LIKE A MODERN GAME OR EVEN BETTER".
No.
Just no.
Emulation doesn't work that way. Please understand this once and for all. The fact that you can run Persona 5 and get great performance on RPCS3 does not mean you'll get the same results with a Dreamcast game. Different documentations, coding, even general interest for the platform are some of the most crucial factors that should be taken into account.
Even 100% cycle-accuracy for SNES games is hard to achieve with most emulators.

Exactly. Also it depends on you PCs specs as well since you are emulating another console for that matter and it also depends on the emulator as well. I tried running Shenmue 1 on Demul with upped graphics and the game froze and crashed. Plus there is another Dreamcast emulator which is supposed to run great on PC with lower specs called redream which has a free version and a paid version the only difference is that with the paid version that you are paying for to upscale the graphics beyond 480p. The paid version is only 5 bucks. Whats great you do not need a Dreamcast BIOS either. I remember back in March I tried running Persona 5 with RPCS3 emulator but got crap performance but I waited a while longer and the performance got better with an updated version of the Emulator. With SNES emulation I heard great things about BSNES/Higan being the best 100% cycle emulator which needs a beefy system.

[Plex]

I knew it would of been 30fps locked. Thats how most ports of classic titles are.
They do reuse parts of the old game engine what makes it more complicated to make it run over the desired framerate.
I hope the textures are at least replacable with Special K

[Citizen Cook]

Bumped for people too lazy to do a simple search.

[David Will]

Let's be honest here, if you put a fake 60fps counter in the corner that flickered between 60/61fps - these people would be happy.

[Citizen Cook]

Originally posted by David Will:

Let's be honest here, if you put a fake 60fps counter in the corner that flickered between 60/61fps - these people would be happy.

It's like the warm light effect. You see a warm light and feel warmer. You are told a game runs at 60 and you are happy (even though it runs at 30) and you didn't notice any negative impact.

The fact is, not every game need to run at 60. Some run just fine at 30. Especially when they are 18 years old and running in 4K resolutions.

[Saru-The Foxboy space pirate!]

Originally posted by Solid Snake:

As a guy who has played Shenmue 1 and 2 to their completion on NullDC and Demul, I can guarantee they DO NOT run at 60fps. People who are trying to deny this fact have never booted these games on an emulator, and they always apply the same logic every time the discussion pops up: "IF IT'S 15+ YEARS OLD, IT SHOULD RUN LIKE A MODERN GAME OR EVEN BETTER".
No.
Just no.
Emulation doesn't work that way. Please understand this once and for all. The fact that you can run Persona 5 and get great performance on RPCS3 does not mean you'll get the same results with a Dreamcast game. Different documentations, coding, even general interest for the platform are some of the most crucial factors that should be taken into account.
Even 100% cycle-accuracy for SNES games is hard to achieve with most emulators.

Me and you both here. That how I knew they was lying too. I play it on the both nulldc and demul. Tbh I wouldnt of never known about shenmue if I didnt. Kinda makes me sad that sega ended up the way they did but at the same time. Im glad they re-release it . I can actually play it now with no real hickups like we would get from the emulators.

[R3N]

Originally posted by Crashed:

Good thing Sega is pretty "liberal" when it comes to emulation discussions...

Yes unlike Nintendo who currently suing retro rom sites like emuparadise and isozone....

[WooDee]

Originally posted by kenxeus:

Originally posted by Crashed:

Good thing Sega is pretty "liberal" when it comes to emulation discussions...

Yes unlike Nintendo who currently suing retro rom sites like emuparadise and isozone....

Sega dosn't what ninten'does ?

[adam_odell]

Originally posted by Citizen Cook:

People now need to stop feeding the trolls by bumping their threads with posts.

YES YES YES YES