Huge Development Issues (DF2 Dev Note Review)

[HuskyStrylight]

"Blog: https://blog.creakycorpse.com/2018/09/dead-frontier-2-my-early-plans.html "
"Melee Combat is too clunky/hard to use
...So, if it becomes clear that the community *really* wants a big rework, then I will probably do it. But for the moment at least, melee will stay roughly as it is and I will move on to other things."(Blog)

DO NOT LEAVE THE MELEE SYSTEM IN THIS HORRIBLE STATE!
Melee animation is in a terrible state as it is not only blocky, the animation itself is so much cringy, the best option for this is to keep the old Dead Frontier style, please, and do not attempt to add animations. Also yes you can hit hard even without moving, sure for really heavy blows it would make sense, but you can hit while moving back or standing still, i trained with melee weapons so i have experience(Kendo and Bushido training) :3. Melee is to be used to limit the usage of range weapon however if this proceeds in this game current state, melee will not be used at all since the likely hood of getting hit due to clunky animation is high. What to do to compensate player from using too much melee should either be two options, tougher zombie that cannot be stunned as easily with other ability such as running or spitting, or having melee have different attack radious, and adding more zombies. But please do not leave the animation alone, that animation will likely give this game a bad review for sure.

Heres a link to how to melee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enq-N9_61SI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbhG7l-uNhM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8h2DmM0Ww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-_c6wKIA8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO3PKSAdUSw
"Note they all do not take a step forward"


"Too many loading screens/it should be open world etc
...Having said all of that, I do understand that the loading screens can get annoying after a long play session. I think the most reasonable solution here is to simply skew future content towards more & larger outdoor areas with smaller building interiors. For example, a fairly large (but not huge) farm area with just a few buildings to visit, a forest with some shacks etc. Outpost attacks, world bosses and PvP zones will also happen outdoors, so I think that will help a lot to break up the door loading."(blog)

Due to some misunderstanding i will change this part, When entering a building no loading screen per room.

For more ideas visit my other post:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/744900/discussions/2/1734339624807559846/
(posted the wrong link)

[Neo Blitz]

Автор сообщения: 狼 Wulfee

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

and I am explaining to you it makes it easy and easier/quicker/safer dosent make it more fun.

Being able to move around while doing a melee attack isn't going to save you from running/sprinting zombies or hell, even the annoyingly fast spider zombie when they come out. In other words, it isn't gonna be easy/quicker/safer. Maybe in the beggining against the walking ones, but once you run into miss tentacles, you'll most likely be the next protag in a tentacool hentai. :blanc:

it opens a huge ass door for exploitation

[Neo Blitz]

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

pffft trust you??? listen to the devs words, he knows a heck alot more than you about development.

Would you say that to EA then too? Or let me see, Activision? Or hmm many other Indie developed game who dropped out.

Oh dont mind me, i just happen to play some games that even went poorly after their huge market success, like um FTL? FTL was a really great game but the game after that, not so much.

Just cause they develop the game doesnt mean they can make all right decision, to make a great game, you need to know what is right or wrong.

I don't play stupid games, cuz I don't need stupid loot box prizes.

I too enjoy FTL. I am fan just like I am fan of Neil.

dosne;t make you right either.

[HuskyStrylight]

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

Would you say that to EA then too? Or let me see, Activision? Or hmm many other Indie developed game who dropped out.

Oh dont mind me, i just happen to play some games that even went poorly after their huge market success, like um FTL? FTL was a really great game but the game after that, not so much.

Just cause they develop the game doesnt mean they can make all right decision, to make a great game, you need to know what is right or wrong.

I don't play stupid games, cuz I don't need stupid loot box prizes.

I play games for fun too, not to get loot boxes which i dont even have any xD.

Are you like giving me a cold shoulder to see if im a masochist but deep down you care about the game and me? XD

[Neo Blitz]

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

I don't play stupid games, cuz I don't need stupid loot box prizes.

I play games for fun too, not to get loot boxes which i dont even have any xD.

Are you like giving me a cold shoulder to see if im a masochist but deep down you care about the game and me? XD

Are you breaking up with me? it feels like it.

so do you understand? I may believe in tough love but you need to adjust your argument....suggestion or w/e is gonna come out of your pretty little head about it next. All I am saying is the dev addressed this and he dosent want to cuz in his opinion it was too easy/exploitable.


From the horses mouth:

"Melee Combat is too clunky/hard to use
I agree that there is a significant learning curve with the melee combat, and that it was incredibly hard to use against groups of zombies. In the last patch I made some changes which I believe makes melee *a lot* more usable, namely: ability to stun up to 3 enemies in one hit, directional stuns, and directional dodge. With those changes I think melee combat with zombies is now a lot more forgiving and far less annoying.

A lot of people have suggested that melee swings should not cause the character to step forward, and/or that you should be able to move during swinging. I actually tried a test version of this melee combat before making the above changes, and I must say I didn't like it. In my opinion it was far to easy to stay out of range of the enemies and just wack them before they got anywhere near you. From an animation perspective, I also felt it looked far less realistic since there was no weight behind the character's attacks. I have sneaking suspicion that if I actually implemented this, there would be a lot of players who would want me to just revert back to the old system.

So, if it becomes clear that the community *really* wants a big rework, then I will probably do it. But for the moment at least, melee will stay roughly as it is and I will move on to other things."

Emphasis on the middle paragraph. Give him time and don't request something he knows in his professional opinion is not good, you are not helping the devolpment cycle with this, reading the rest of his blog from a few days ago should really hit that fact home for you.

[HuskyStrylight]

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

I play games for fun too, not to get loot boxes which i dont even have any xD.

Are you like giving me a cold shoulder to see if im a masochist but deep down you care about the game and me? XD

Are you breaking up with me? it feels like it.

so do you understand? I may believe in tough love but you need to adjust your argument....suggestion or w/e is gonna come out of your pretty little head about it next. All I am saying is the dev addressed this and he dosent want to cuz in his opinion it was too easy/exploitable.


From the horses mouth:

"Melee Combat is too clunky/hard to use
I agree that there is a significant learning curve with the melee combat, and that it was incredibly hard to use against groups of zombies. In the last patch I made some changes which I believe makes melee *a lot* more usable, namely: ability to stun up to 3 enemies in one hit, directional stuns, and directional dodge. With those changes I think melee combat with zombies is now a lot more forgiving and far less annoying.

A lot of people have suggested that melee swings should not cause the character to step forward, and/or that you should be able to move during swinging. I actually tried a test version of this melee combat before making the above changes, and I must say I didn't like it. In my opinion it was far to easy to stay out of range of the enemies and just wack them before they got anywhere near you. From an animation perspective, I also felt it looked far less realistic since there was no weight behind the character's attacks. I have sneaking suspicion that if I actually implemented this, there would be a lot of players who would want me to just revert back to the old system.

So, if it becomes clear that the community *really* wants a big rework, then I will probably do it. But for the moment at least, melee will stay roughly as it is and I will move on to other things."

Emphasis on the middle paragraph. Give him time and don't request something he knows in his professional opinion is not good, you are not helping the devolpment cycle with this, reading the rest of his blog from a few days ago should really hit that fact home for you.

The reason why he should change it early on is so it would not hassle him in the future, to edit a game while in building is far easier then changing the game when released, and alot of players would like a more smoother and orginial experience of the melee instead of taking time.

I understand the dev as i too modded and designed models for game, and editing a completed model is alot more work then changing in mid progress. I made a mistake in this area, and im sure its a good advice for him to hear this out as well. (Had to spend Two days to rework the history of polygons and shapes on only 1 object, and that not the major issue, the script itself takes everything apart, and the scripts pretty much builds the game, and i know for a fact, changing scripts will take a whole lot of time.)

[Neo Blitz]

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

Are you breaking up with me? it feels like it.

so do you understand? I may believe in tough love but you need to adjust your argument....suggestion or w/e is gonna come out of your pretty little head about it next. All I am saying is the dev addressed this and he dosent want to cuz in his opinion it was too easy/exploitable.


From the horses mouth:

"Melee Combat is too clunky/hard to use
I agree that there is a significant learning curve with the melee combat, and that it was incredibly hard to use against groups of zombies. In the last patch I made some changes which I believe makes melee *a lot* more usable, namely: ability to stun up to 3 enemies in one hit, directional stuns, and directional dodge. With those changes I think melee combat with zombies is now a lot more forgiving and far less annoying.

A lot of people have suggested that melee swings should not cause the character to step forward, and/or that you should be able to move during swinging. I actually tried a test version of this melee combat before making the above changes, and I must say I didn't like it. In my opinion it was far to easy to stay out of range of the enemies and just wack them before they got anywhere near you. From an animation perspective, I also felt it looked far less realistic since there was no weight behind the character's attacks. I have sneaking suspicion that if I actually implemented this, there would be a lot of players who would want me to just revert back to the old system.

So, if it becomes clear that the community *really* wants a big rework, then I will probably do it. But for the moment at least, melee will stay roughly as it is and I will move on to other things."

Emphasis on the middle paragraph. Give him time and don't request something he knows in his professional opinion is not good, you are not helping the devolpment cycle with this, reading the rest of his blog from a few days ago should really hit that fact home for you.

The reason why he should change it early on is so it would not hassle him in the future, to edit a game while in building is far easier then changing the game when released, and alot of players would like a more smoother and orginial experience of the melee instead of taking time.

I understand the dev as i too modded and designed models for game, and editing a completed model is alot more work then changing in mid progress. I made a mistake in this area, and im sure its a good advice for him to hear this out as well. (Had to spend Two days to rework the history of polygons and shapes on only 1 object, and that not the major issue, the script itself takes everything apart, and the scripts pretty much builds the game, and i know for a fact, changing scripts will take a whole lot of time.)

Well you have your answer, go ahead hope for your support on the issue but I don't think you're gonna get it.

[HuskyStrylight]

Автор сообщения: Neo Blitz

Автор сообщения: HuskyStrylight

The reason why he should change it early on is so it would not hassle him in the future, to edit a game while in building is far easier then changing the game when released, and alot of players would like a more smoother and orginial experience of the melee instead of taking time.

I understand the dev as i too modded and designed models for game, and editing a completed model is alot more work then changing in mid progress. I made a mistake in this area, and im sure its a good advice for him to hear this out as well. (Had to spend Two days to rework the history of polygons and shapes on only 1 object, and that not the major issue, the script itself takes everything apart, and the scripts pretty much builds the game, and i know for a fact, changing scripts will take a whole lot of time.)

Well you have your answer, go ahead hope for your support on the issue but I don't think you're gonna get it.

Nice talking with you :3

[[ 狼 ] Aokami]

Well seeing how he brought up the topic of melee combat, I'd say that's a pretty big problem that the community has brought up. It's not like he's just randomly addresing every single problem on the discussion boards. Also, unless he's planning to exclude any fast/running types of zombies in the game, I don't see how the ability to move has anything to do with making the overall game easier. Can we get a confirmation on whether DF1 zombies will be on DF2, or will all the zombies be walking at a snails pace? If its the later than i'll agree that being able to move is an exploit/easy.

[odysseus60]

Автор сообщения: 狼 Wulfee

@odysseus60 @Neo Blitz Turds like you make games sink during EA ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Loli, please go take out the trash :narumi::dustpan:

Melee is clunky at the moment, and clashes with realism. (I can easily swing stuff around without having to move forward, I do kendo though if you want to argue about ability). I'd much rather sacrifice the 'stun 3' ability and just have harder zombies/sprinting zombies than a forced moving melee attack animation.

Loading time's are cumbersome, especially when exploring buildings with large amounts of seperated rooms/floors. Though I understand that it's a compromise for development (I've done that myself when making maps with RPG Maker MV/script writing, and modding for various games like Total War.

Content is key, UI upgrade and smooth transitioning is key.
Also trade needs alotta working, currently im just scrapping due to the hassel of finding an items worth and sticking it up for trade.

As it is in EA, it's understandable that it requires alot of work. I've been around since DF1 first launched, from being a mp sync horror with no enterable buildings to the 3d-ish game it is today.

Its a discussion. deal with it. Stop with the self rightous over opinionated crap , move on and try to enjoy the game this man has made and stop with the BS your spewing. Its Turds like you that squeeze all the fun out of a game ,forum and community. Just play it and have some ideas to improve not try to reinvent anothers creation.

[Banditos Way]

I enjoy melee as it is. Im level 14 and have melee 2 and Im running around level 15 towns and not having issues with it.

[Weeb Lord]

Neils already explain why he builds this game like this

Why melee system are like this
Why this game open world with loading screens like this

You dont even read all the blog

He already explain it well

If you want a game with open world like 7 days to die,this is not the game for you
It will not change

But for melee,Neils like it this way,cause this look more realistic and not like any generic melee weapon games mechanic.But if lots of people Butthurt about this he will change it But if he does I want to make a vote first.

If u think melee is clunky...Buff it.
Use a gear with attack speed and body damage

Instant kill and no zombie can counter u since they get rapid knockback except boss.

i have 33% attack speed + 20% melee attack speed = Melee best weapon that saves ammo

[[ 狼 ] Aokami]

Автор сообщения: odysseus60

Its a discussion. deal with it. Stop with the self rightous over opinionated crap , move on and try to enjoy the game this man has made and stop with the BS your spewing. Its Turds like you that squeeze all the fun out of a game ,forum and community. Just play it and have some ideas to improve not try to reinvent anothers creation.

You can't improve anything with just praise, thats what criticism is for. I'd rather have my opinion out there, than to sit and watch. There's a reason for steam ratings and reviews, so deal with the new system.

Автор сообщения: odysseus60

You should spending all this time and energy on making your own game.

Also, at least i am contributing to this discussion unlike someone who spends energy posting garbage. Please go enjoy the game yourself, no need to have you in this discussion. Also the dev's aren't forced to these criticism's either so get off your own self righteousness and go spend your own energy wisely elsewhere.

I have a different opinion to the dev's, and he can either 1) Discuss 2)debate 3)ignore 4)delete, etc. It's his project so i can't force anything onto him. So i don't see the point of your existence in this discussion, when it poses no change/harm to your gaming experience.

@Brain Memes I wouldn't mind a vote either. Not all games are meant to cator to everyone's specific tastes. But I don't mind the devs going with majority vote, in fact i support that since it's based on the playerbase.

[HuskyStrylight]

Автор сообщения: Brain Memes

Neils already explain why he builds this game like this

Why melee system are like this
Why this game open world with loading screens like this

You dont even read all the blog

He already explain it well

If you want a game with open world like 7 days to die,this is not the game for you
It will not change

But for melee,Neils like it this way,cause this look more realistic and not like any generic melee weapon games mechanic.But if lots of people Butthurt about this he will change it But if he does I want to make a vote first.

I can show you a video where you dont need to move while swinging, and also i can show you a video on swinging while moving in different direction. I read all the blog and im telling you that if he does not change it, it will only come back to bite when the game is released, as changing script take alot of time.

Also i said open world in building, you know those doors with loading screen? Not open world the whole game.

Автор сообщения: Banditos Way

I enjoy melee as it is. Im level 14 and have melee 2 and Im running around level 15 towns and not having issues with it.

xD nice

[done87]

open world = camping boss

[HuskyStrylight]

Автор сообщения: (TF2SP) God of Beer and Games

i actually like the melee atm
doesn't mean it can't use a rework but the timed melee is something unique atm.

the recent being able to hit 3 zombies instead of 1 is pretty good step in the right direction. You need to hit zombies multiple times to kill them since melee would be superiorly OP'd if you could one shot enemies (even larger enemies with sneak you gotta keep kicking or in this case hitting them while they're down to ensure they stay down'd).

Sorta keeps with the real IRL melee combat where if you hit a person in the head with a shovel they'll go down but won't stay down. In a while later they can get up.

The re-animated zombies are something unique too that i know it's a bug but hope they keep somehow (headcannon: worms take over the body. They don't escape the body but instead merge with it and control it, that's why they die in one shot since worms are super easy to kill)

I guess, however i prefer Dead Frontier 1 with its melee style, gives more flexibility, but dont worry about how much swings, just like the previous game, the amount needed will just remain random, the only thing that changes is open melee flexability and thats it.