Why is Kickboxing and Quick Reflexes considered a Meme/Useless?

[Baldwin IV]

Old player returning from the initial release.

[Leon]

Cause nowadays it is easier to use guns, ammo is everywhere, looting ammo is much more than before, I think tripled.

Therefore you wont need to kick zombies, u always stay with 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon almost all the time, unless u want 2 ranged weapons and know what you're doing, then that can be an option too.

Quick reflexes is meh, this isnt darksouls, and once u reach high enough level and understanding of the game. Which can take like 20 to 40 hours to git gud at it... u wont need to dodge at all.

[Baldwin IV]

Very useful info. Thank you kind stranger. I'll remove the kick ability when i prestige,it looked like a useful skill at first

[Underdog]

Neither are a meme or useless, though:

Dodge is pretty essential on any kind of melee build. You're going to mess up and miss at some point. It also dodges vomit. Relatively helpful in PVP as a small caveat. Never go over Dodge 1, it's all you need. 100% essential on melee to avoid being hit in otherwise unavoidable situations

Kick is incredibly helpful in dual gun builds. Kick worms on the ground. If you are in a sticky situation where BOTH guns need to be reloaded, kick the zombie and reload. Kicking sprinting zombies is helpful to have better aim against them, plus it has a small chance to knock them down. Sometimes zombies don't need two shots, and just need one kick and one bullet. Kick is a good money saving and defense technique. Again, Kick 1 is all you need. I'm sure your pants or shoes may or may not have some kick stats on them, but even if they don't, level 1 is all you need

Chances are, any build you can concoct will not be obliterated by having 2 stat points in these. Plus, it's just fun having the special abilities. Both of my characters have sneak, dodge, and kick on them by default.

[Solid Snake]

the only thing wrong with kick is that it can be really inconsistant/delayed. Which could be fixed to work like how dodge works, where it interrupts anything animation when pressed to deliver the kick.

[whalecrown]

Kickboxing has an animation delay and needs to be smoothed out to be more useful / snappy

If you think Dodge ala Quick Reflexes is useless then you don't know how to use it - good for melee builds and to chuck around vomit or instances where you can save up some seconds on Sprinter - giving you more time to live through those precious seconds maybe even cheating death a bit - both a utility and mobility tool / skill

I've seen someone dance around Tendrils sprinting around dodging a bit while waiting for Sprint cd - so nah it aint no meme

[whalecrown]

Originally posted by (TF2SP) The Cooler Aya:

Originally posted by whalecrown:

Kickboxing has an animation delay and needs to be smoothed out to be more useful / snappy

If you think Dodge ala Quick Reflexes is useless then you don't know how to use it - good for melee builds and to chuck around vomit or instances where you can save up some seconds on Sprinter - giving you more time to live through those precious seconds maybe even cheating death a bit - both a utility and mobility tool / skill

I've seen someone dance around Tendrils sprinting around dodging a bit while waiting for Sprint cd - so nah it aint no meme

trendrils are tanks though

id rather have damage and speed vs relying on a single dodge run technique. Not to say that it's not useless but yeah if i can down it then it'd be less stressful than worrying about dying or not and losing all that effort time and ammo.

actually saw 1 guy using around 101% mutant damage and 75% headshot on a rifle and down it in about 1-2 magazines (couldn't tell b/c he was lagging but he kited it around a car about maybe 4 times before it died).


also saw a guy with probably a high stealth surprise and headshot 3 shot a bloody chior and mother. He was only lvl 15 lol.

i mean if you dont hit them in the head then yeah they can be kinda tanky

damage and speed are pretty key to the later parts of the game yeah

those are some crazy builds amazing what some people can come up with

[Leon]

the ammo pickup is tripled and now you can store twice as much ammo in your inventory, you get so much money from quests you almost never run out, why would u need to invest in skills that are made for melee when you can range shoot everything?

[Underdog]

Originally posted by Leon:

the ammo pickup is tripled and now you can store twice as much ammo in your inventory, you get so much money from quests you almost never run out, why would u need to invest in skills that are made for melee when you can range shoot everything?

Because you can't always range shoot everything? lmfao... have you played the new 25+ zones?

If you have two or multiple characters, you're not going to have unlimited funds forever. I don't ever buy ammo, or really meds or food, just gear, and my funds go up and down depending on what I'm doing. I guess it also depends if you "cheat" and follow the mission guide and complete 20+ missions a day... the average person playing the game as intended is only ever going to finish 5 or so missions a day, depending on the ones they choose, etc.

In an OA with basically perma sprinting zombies you're gonna miss so often if you aren't using melee, as well as burn all your ammo extremely quick.

Nothing wrong with a little "RP" in an MMORPG, either. I purposely have my two characters with "useless" stats just to give them different feels for a better experience

[Leon]

You don't need a guide to finish missions, there is a whole section in my DF2 guide which if anyone read every part of it and with time they will finish all quests within 2 hours or less doing them solo without the need to go for Haven guide. if you want to exclude long quests you can do the easy ones and still average around 4-6k money from them alone.

As for melee, i would still equip a melee weapon in one of the slots, but still the melee system in this game is bland, and dull, to the point you rather just hoard ammo and use all of it on OA, and then replenish it again. the average person at least have 25k spare money when they are broke now lol.

[Nuage]

Originally posted by Sellsword Luet:

Old player returning from the initial release.

Kick only stun 1 zombie and deal damage to 1 zombie sadly your not Leon Kennedy to do a Roundhouse kick
Reflect is quite meh option 4 me because jog speed is better or 1 point in sprint is all you need to avoid zombie

[Weeb Lord]

Back then when this game first release, Kick are considered a good perk. Because to find ammo is like impossible. Even top player you see in discord and any prestige 3 and above surely at least has once begging for ammo

nowdays, ammo are easy to find, cheap and money is easy to get.

Kicboxing perk need a lot of stats to make it viable and good. Like Bruised Knee, that dude is basically a living meme for using Kickboxing, he soloed a finger with kicboxing only lmao

Quick reflex still considered trash by majority. its not a bad perk just there is a lot of better perk that you better invest in like Hunter, Head hunter, Exterminator, Any weapon expert and etc.

Perhaps when this game lvl cap got raised to at least lvl 40-50 and people can have a lot of perk, Quick reflex will be considered as a good skills. Until then.

[whalecrown]

Yes there are better perks to take besides Quick Reflexes. Quick Reflexes is just so much better than Kick Boxing cause of its stun recovery and mobility use. Knee is the exception to the Kick Boxing meme. He is overly geared and specced into it to make it work

Kick Boxing would be so much better without the animation delay

edit: Kick Boxing is less of a meme now