Jade post game plothole

[Nima92]

Why does jade get revamp back if she never gets turned into a monster in this timeline

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by Nima92:

I concede nothing. The fact is that there is a plothole and it is fine that it exists. The thread can end here. I'll summarize as best as I can what we've talked about as a thread:

Let me restate the plothole: Based on the 3 lines of screenshots I provided early in the thread [I'll repost it here: https://imgur.com/INhaB3y ] (they are the only 3 lines you are given btw), I concluded that it was a plothole that Jade can channel Monster powers she was not given in this timeline(B) to use the ReVamp ability that she had aquired by having residual Monster... let's call it 'monster DNA' for the sake of arguement and tapping into that 'monster DNA' to gain some strength etc.

Now the problem with the fact that she has this ability is not the fact that everyone's potential has been unlocked. This is fact backed by the screenshots/lines given. For example, some mentioned that Rab can do Pearly Gates in Timeline(B). Yes this is within his potential so he has learned that as a 'new ability/spell'. It actually specifically states that everyone learns their new potentials as new. The problem is that ReVamp shouldn't be part of her 'potential' as a martial artist. That's like saying all martial artists' true potential lie in being part-monster.

Anyway the idea here is that she should not have a change in her 'DNA' from just having her potential unlocked or maybe let's put it in terms you guys have used previously (which isn't supported by any dialogue screenshots or proof btw): Jade remembers her memories from Timeline(A) and can now ReVamp again because of 'Super Kami Guru'. .

What others have used as arguement:
>Timelines merging, stating that because Veronica thanked the hero and cried (not knowing why) That this butterfly effect was proof that there was no plothole. Other statements included some other clues from quests after you talk to 'Super Kami Guru' stating that other characters remember things from Timeline (A).

Here is again the problem with this arguement: Memories =/= DNA change. I can remember having wings in Timeline(A) but it won't give me the ability to fly in Timeline(B). This may sound absurd to mention wings but there is support in this arguement because the other women in Octogonia were turned into Succubats but are they flying in Octogonia? Okay yes this is flawed to mention because they have not tapped into residual monster DNA to turn back into Succubats and fly but the point is that they could have and that it won't change the fact that they would never be able to in Timeline(B).

>Another argument posited was that 'why weren't the characters unlocked to level 99?'. I'll try to answer that by saying that their levels (50-60 or whatever) was the potential they needed in order to face Mordegon/Lord of Shadows. It's actually just to give us back the exp we earned as a player and not infuriate us as a JRPG player that had earned the EXP from this point in the game (in timeline A) 'till the end of timeline A.

Yes overall we are nitpicking that, as a side-effect of being nice to us, a plothole was formed. But that's not something we can change it's just something we can spot and say 'hey that doesn't make sense but whatever, it's a useful ability'.

/Thread. [/quote]
Yeah good one dude you skip all the dialogue that proves you're wrong. At this point you're just saying "this is a plothole because i want it to be". Next time try not skipping all the dialogue in the game and you'll see that A LOT of characters reference the other time line, and as i said before: it's not only their memorys that come back, game gives you proof that the time lines are merged, so if they're merged your party mermbers should have their powers back somewhere within them.
The fact that Jade can use ReVamp even after Booga died (and all the people that he cursed went back to normal) shows that she managed to make that a power of her own. So how about you stop ignoring all the proof you have and trying to spread false inforrmation?

[Chien]

The devs just got lazy and opted not to create redundant quests/story arcs. Removing content or abilities just to add the same thing as reward later it's a big no-no in basic game design really. It's just a namek buu magic thing. Booga just used midichlorians and nanomachines to manipulate Jade's inner spiritual life force in fact. It just so happens that popo majin guru can unlock warui waifu ki too.

Anyway, Michelle's suicide route (not lying to the mermaid) it's a plot hole though. She's already dead when you reach Yggdrasil.

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by Chien:

The devs just got lazy and opted not to create redundant quests/story arcs. Removing content or abilities just to add the same thing as reward later it's a big no-no in basic game design really. It's just a namek buu magic thing. Booga just used midichlorians and nanomachines to manipulate Jade's inner spiritual life force in fact. It just so happens that popo majin guru can unlock warui waifu ki too.

Anyway, Michelle's suicide route (not lying to the mermaid) it's a plot hole though. She's already dead when you reach Yggdrasil.

I would say how you are wrong, but then i realised i don't speak neckbeard and didn't understand ♥♥♥♥ of what you said.

[Chien]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

I would say how you are wrong, but then i realised i don't speak neckbeard and didn't understand ♥♥♥♥ of what you said.

Yeah, you're right, I've tried too hard, but stressing about optimal game design and their lore it's just too much I guess. The post game content is pretty reasonable for today's standards even by recycling maps. Although some aspects of the story could have been better developed yes.

[GORECHIMERA]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Holy hell you should stop using all your brain on the writing and start thinking a little. Their bodies become the same, Jade's body merges with the other bringing everything, it's the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ person why is it so hard to understand?

If Jade's curse carried over so would Veronica's death by this logic.

It's missing explanation alright, but I just treat it as a gameplay mechanic since she never transforms in a cutscene after the jump. And anyway the Calasmos part of the game feels like they were trying to give you access to everything you've seen or had, like skills, abilities and Veronica. The Zwaardstraat trials for example are an excuse to bring back locations you can't visit anymore because of story reasons, which some people may see as recycling.

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by GORECHIMERA:

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Holy hell you should stop using all your brain on the writing and start thinking a little. Their bodies become the same, Jade's body merges with the other bringing everything, it's the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ person why is it so hard to understand?

If Jade's curse carried over so would Veronica's death by this logic.

It's missing explanation alright, but I just treat it as a gameplay mechanic since she never transforms in a cutscene after the jump. And anyway the Calasmos part of the game feels like they were trying to give you access to everything you've seen or had, like skills, abilities and Veronica. The Zwaardstraat trials for example are an excuse to bring back locations you can't visit anymore because of story reasons, which some people may see as recycling.

No, Veronica was still alive on that time line. so she just shoudn't get new powers, like her self from time line A was dead so her in time line post-game had nobody to merge with to gain more power. Now that could lead to a plothole as to "so why does she level up with the party then?" My guess is that the powers Serena had combined in time line A get separated again and go to both Serena and Veronica.

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Now that could lead to a plothole as to "so why does she level up with the party then?" My guess is that the powers Serena had combined in time line A get separated again and go to both Serena and Veronica.

This is the most likely scenario, yes - otherwise the reason would be “just cuz, lol”

[Netatsake]

You know on the topic of plot holes, how is it that Michelle comes back to life in chapter 3 when she died before the transition from chapter 1 to chapter 2, when at the start of chapter 3, you go back to the point before chapter 2? I'm confused.

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by Netatsake:

You know on the topic of plot holes, how is it that Michelle comes back to life in chapter 3 when she died before the transition from chapter 1 to chapter 2, when at the start of chapter 3, you go back to the point before chapter 2? I'm confused.

you're just copying what that other guy said, but i don't remember if your forced to finish this side quest before the yggdrasil events, if you can show some proof that this side quest is impossible to complete after the yggdrasil events then i'll give you some credit, otherwise it's just a sequence breaking that you did and the game was not ready for people rushing side quests.

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Originally posted by Netatsake:

You know on the topic of plot holes, how is it that Michelle comes back to life in chapter 3 when she died before the transition from chapter 1 to chapter 2, when at the start of chapter 3, you go back to the point before chapter 2? I'm confused.

you're just copying what that other guy said, but i don't remember if your forced to finish this side quest before the yggdrasil events, if you can show some proof that this side quest is impossible to complete after the yggdrasil events then i'll give you some credit, otherwise it's just a sequence breaking that you did and the game was not ready for people rushing side quests.

Lonalulu isn't a side quest, but your effort to discredit me of your own bias is adorable. Also for the record, the other person who mentioned it was using the whole Michelle thing to prove a point about deja vu.

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by Netatsake:

Originally posted by Tenshi:

you're just copying what that other guy said, but i don't remember if your forced to finish this side quest before the yggdrasil events, if you can show some proof that this side quest is impossible to complete after the yggdrasil events then i'll give you some credit, otherwise it's just a sequence breaking that you did and the game was not ready for people rushing side quests.

Lonalulu isn't a side quest, but your effort to discredit me of your own bias is adorable. Also for the record, the other person who mentioned it was using the whole Michelle thing to prove a point about deja vu.

That might be a plothole, an actual one instead of the ReVamp that's been proven but you and OP still refuse to believe. But again, i don't remember if you're forced to do it before Yggdrasil falls, and even if you are i might have forgotten about a possible explanation to this "plothole", so unless you can give detailed information i'll just consider that you're lying.

[Nima92]

Order of events for Michelle: talk to her at strand, go to lonalulu, go back to strand, go back to lonalulu and she dies, telling you to go back to strand for a reward, go to strand, get lorelei's harp, go to nautica, get orb from queen of nautica

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Originally posted by Netatsake:

Lonalulu isn't a side quest, but your effort to discredit me of your own bias is adorable. Also for the record, the other person who mentioned it was using the whole Michelle thing to prove a point about deja vu.

That might be a plothole, an actual one instead of the ReVamp that's been proven but you and OP still refuse to believe. But again, i don't remember if you're forced to do it before Yggdrasil falls, and even if you are i might have forgotten about a possible explanation to this "plothole", so unless you can give detailed information i'll just consider that you're lying.

Oh it's definitely a plothole. For the record, you DO have to do it before Yggdrasil falls, because if you don't, you don't get Lorelei's Harp, which is required to get into Sniflheim in chapter 2 in the first place (which while you get it from Jade when you get her back... also why the hell did she have it if you were the one holding the bag...?) so if you CAN skip it, then that adds in the plothole of where the hell did Jade get Lorelei's Harp herself?

On a side note though, I don't care if you in particular think I'm lying, both because you still think I haven't conceded that the re-vamp thing isn't a plothole (which I have, if you didn't skip over as much of my posts as you piss and moan about everyone else skipping over yours) and because your opinions mean nothing for how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ a person you are. <3

Originally posted by Nima92:

Order of events for Michelle: talk to her at strand, go to lonalulu, go back to strand, go back to lonalulu and she dies, telling you to go back to strand for a reward, go to strand, get lorelei's harp, go to nautica, get orb from queen of nautica

This too, forgot you get one of the orbs from Nautica as well, which requires you to kill Michelle, and you need the orbs for Yggdrasil to fall in the first place.

[Tenshi]

Originally posted by Nima92:

Order of events for Michelle: talk to her at strand, go to lonalulu, go back to strand, go back to lonalulu and she dies, telling you to go back to strand for a reward, go to strand, get lorelei's harp, go to nautica, get orb from queen of nautica

good, i lied to her and she's alive, no plothole. What are you gonna pull out of your ass now?


And again, if you want to nitpick and consider EVERY minor thing possible as a plothole let me make you happy: After Erdwin's lantern is shattered you can do a side quest where a guy asks you to get a shard of the star, after you complete the quest you go back to talk to him and he thanks you for the shard. Even after you go back in time where the star is not shattered the guy will still be thanking you for the non existing shard. BOOM trash game side quest plothole.

You must be really annoying while playing games if you consider such small things as plotholes, every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game is gonna have something like this, and you'll be there to say how trash the game is because of a NPC you should talk to only once.

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by Tenshi:

Originally posted by Nima92:

Order of events for Michelle: talk to her at strand, go to lonalulu, go back to strand, go back to lonalulu and she dies, telling you to go back to strand for a reward, go to strand, get lorelei's harp, go to nautica, get orb from queen of nautica

good, i lied to her and she's alive, no plothole. What are you gonna put out of your ass now?

What drugs are you on? You can't 'lie' to her to get the harp and thus the orb... >-> If that were an option, this would be much less of a plot hole.