Balseph Fight... Are you guys even dodging?

[Xengre]

I just got around to spending some time on this game and got to Balseph. This entire time I've been expecting some epic challenge of a big boss on hard difficulty (level 9 during that fight) because of all the complaints about it's difficulty but after completing it... I'm genuinely left speechless.

I have to seriously ask. Are the people who are struggling in this game not using dodge? Or like tactics and paying attention to cues? Balseph engages almost exclusively in very short range attacks and he has ridiculous wind up cues to his attacks. The fire boss might hit hard but there is a -50% fire accessory just before the fight, and there is also a food that further cuts the dmg (which I did not use but realized when I saw that boss).

This isn't really a brag thread as I know I'm definitely not the average gamer and it would be unfair to expect the same level of performance but the fight felt... almost like a CG story fight with the really crazy obvious boss cues and short range/slow attacks. It feels like one of those fights you aren't actually intended to lose so long as you either dodge, or for his aoe if you can't time it well just back up due to the obvious cue. The fire boss just get out of the AoE zone and if its a bunch of fireballs spam dodge basically.

If you haven't been dodging I strongly suggest you start employing dodge, which I suspect is the reason some people are struggling. Now, the only other thing I can think of is dodging is a bit delayed if your setting is set to "Input Queuing Time: Long". Set it to "Short" in the settings. I've no idea why it is defaulted to long but it causes various attack commands to stack up in a queue so you can't dodge until that queue is finished but short reduces the stacking nature of the queue for those who spam too many attacks out of habit and then find they suddenly need to dodge.

I do feel bummed about the lame fight and hope later bosses are better.

[Aruhen]

What do you expect out of people? To play a game properly? Good luck.

[XCROSS]

Dodging is for suckas!

[Alpha_Zeon]

Take away healing altogether, remove item usage. Then they'll learn to roll.

[FakeKeima]

"D-Dodging exists! I skipped the tutorial sequence. trollol

[Paladin Larec]

I thought the same thing but didn't want to be rude. I had replied in the original complaint thread that "maybe you should dodge and take the dodge timing enhancement perk that unlocks" but apparently people didn't take my advice.

Not to offend anyone, but a lot of people nowadays are just too busy to read in-game help and tutorials and think they know everything.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Alpha_Zeon:

Take away healing altogether, remove item usage. Then they'll learn to roll.

So basically make this into Ys Oath of Felghana or Dante Must Die. That'll get em. lol

Originally posted by FakeKeima:

"D-Dodging exists! I skipped the tutorial sequence. trollol

Achievement Unlocked. Dodged the tutorial.

Originally posted by Taxonomical:

I thought the same thing but didn't want to be rude. I had replied in the original complaint thread that "maybe you should dodge and take the dodge timing enhancement perk that unlocks" but apparently people didn't take my advice.

Not to offend anyone, but a lot of people nowadays are just too busy to read in-game help and tutorials and think they know everything.

It does throw a lot at you, and oddly mid battle without any pause at times which is a bit bleh but yeah it really helps they have a side menu shortcut to access this stuff and dodging is one of the neatest part of this Tales release, imo at least (glad it ended up featuring aerial dodge as well). People really should read those in-game tips.

[Dregora]

Literally a brag thread.


But to throw you a bone; It's combat takes some time getting used to from your usual tales games. I've had to adjust for the lack of being able to dodge out of attacks and i've underestimated how long i'm stuck in my attacks animation wise, causing me to get hit.

On hard he also pretty much one shots you with his regular attacks. But as you said, the accessoire does help a ton.

Anyway, for such a early boss fight, he's deff tough and very punishing if you get hit even once, that coupled with it being somewhat of a ''revamp'' combat wise, I can see why people struggle.

But don't pretend this wasn't a brag thread either. For everyone ''hes too hard'' thread, you'll get a couple ''omg its so easy I was expecting more'' from the very first boss in the game? You're either terrible at balance (if you truly wanted it harder) or you're just bragging.

I assume the latter.

[Mr.Hmm]

Dodge? FOOL why would you DODGE?! take it all like a MAN and die over and over! /s

Yeah i kept dodging -> Counter Attacking him lol, he was the EASIEST boss out of all the bosses i faced... like god... he was super easy i yawned during the fight..

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Dregora:

Literally a brag thread.


But to throw you a bone; It's combat takes some time getting used to from your usual tales games. I've had to adjust for the lack of being able to dodge out of attacks and i've underestimated how long i'm stuck in my attacks animation wise, causing me to get hit.

On hard he also pretty much one shots you with his regular attacks. But as you said, the accessoire does help a ton.

Anyway, for such a early boss fight, he's deff tough and very punishing if you get hit even once, that coupled with it being somewhat of a ''revamp'' combat wise, I can see why people struggle.

But don't pretend this wasn't a brag thread either. For everyone ''hes too hard'' thread, you'll get a couple ''omg its so easy I was expecting more'' from the very first boss in the game? You're either terrible at balance (if you truly wanted it harder) or you're just bragging.

I assume the latter.

Not a brag thread. Did you find the fight hard? If so I have to ask why? Several of this boss' attacks take quite literally around 1.5-2 seconds to release with very blatant cues for even the non-observant. Even then they are, as stated, mostly slow except the AoE explosion (very dodgeable but I totally get if many can't dodge that one) but this one has short range and is particularly unique cues and a slow action so you can very readily waltz out and then waltz back in after its done. The fire boss attacks are non-problematic if you explored a little and grabbed the fire resistance item, even at level 9 (which is basically no grinding), but even if you didn't grab it you can just spam dodge when the fire boss very rarely attacks.

You mention "stuck in the animation" and I quite clearly pointed out how to fix that with the input queue setting, which I reiterate was the only other reason I could imagine someone struggling on that boss but gave the tip on how to fix it for their future combat encounters.

This boss most definitely does not 1-shot you on hard. I was level 9 for this fight, and it is very unlikely the average player was lower level than that because I did not grind. I didn't get hit by every attack so many there is the odd one that does 1-shot like some of the jumping ones (?) but those are even easier to dodge so its non-issue and at worst you can just revive with some life bottles or Shion from the odd death.

You claim its a brag thread but you are over here exaggerating the fight and indicating you weren't dodging because you were locked into spamming attacks. You are exactly the type of person I'm making this thread to point out how to fix your issues so you stop struggling on a fight that sincerely was non-issue.

This wasn't a boss that was fast, had difficult to discern cues, or 1-shot (contrary to your claim), nor was it even an aggressive boss. Maybe tunnel vision less with spamming that next attack and leave some breathing room to react. Do the input queue suggestion as well. We see this in games like Dark Souls, too, because people get greedy on a boss or silly mob and die because they just had to get that last hit in. Patience. This isn't Megaman Battle Network where you gotta kill the boss in 0.32 seconds to get S rating.

Originally posted by Mr.Hmm:

Dodge? FOOL why would you DODGE?! take it all like a MAN and die over and over! /s

Yeah i kept dodging -> Counter Attacking him lol, he was the EASIEST boss out of all the bosses i faced... like god... he was super easy i yawned during the fight..

I feel ya. I haven't quite gotten down those abs of steel to stop a massive battle axe so I'm gonna stick to dodging, myself.

[FakeKeima]

Originally posted by Dregora:

Literally a brag thread.


But to throw you a bone; It's combat takes some time getting used to from your usual tales games. I've had to adjust for the lack of being able to dodge out of attacks and i've underestimated how long i'm stuck in my attacks animation wise, causing me to get hit.

On hard he also pretty much one shots you with his regular attacks. But as you said, the accessoire does help a ton.

Anyway, for such a early boss fight, he's deff tough and very punishing if you get hit even once, that coupled with it being somewhat of a ''revamp'' combat wise, I can see why people struggle.

But don't pretend this wasn't a brag thread either. For everyone ''hes too hard'' thread, you'll get a couple ''omg its so easy I was expecting more'' from the very first boss in the game? You're either terrible at balance (if you truly wanted it harder) or you're just bragging.

I assume the latter.

If you come into the discussions before getting to Balseph, you see more he is so hard threads. You then think you are heading into ridiculous Dark souls fight. You could also play on "normal" which is the default, instead of going on hard mode.

If anything maybe people should start saying if they are playing hard mode or normal mode when they make these too hard or too easy threads. It would clear up some misunderstandings probably.

[Diviance]

Why is dodging a sub-routine? It's not that complex!

[Fyk0]

Yeah I expected it to be harder based on what I read on the forums. I play on hard and died once on the 2nd phase to the rapid fireball attack and I was like oh okay I need to dodge that. Beat it without issues the 2nd try. I did have KO prevention perk activated though that let me survive a fatal blow with 1 HP.

[Xengre]

Indeed. I had seen comments about how uber tanky the boss was with 1-shots, how people were needing every last life bottle and CP for revives and still barely scraping by after numerous head banging attempts, etc. so it was a bit bewildering upon experiencing it considering the boss' attack patterns and less threatening damage then expected. lol as Keima put it I was kind of expecting Dark Souls vibes from like a low level NG+ challenge run or something based on descriptions.

[Dregora]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by Dregora:

Literally a brag thread.


But to throw you a bone; It's combat takes some time getting used to from your usual tales games. I've had to adjust for the lack of being able to dodge out of attacks and i've underestimated how long i'm stuck in my attacks animation wise, causing me to get hit.

On hard he also pretty much one shots you with his regular attacks. But as you said, the accessoire does help a ton.

Anyway, for such a early boss fight, he's deff tough and very punishing if you get hit even once, that coupled with it being somewhat of a ''revamp'' combat wise, I can see why people struggle.

But don't pretend this wasn't a brag thread either. For everyone ''hes too hard'' thread, you'll get a couple ''omg its so easy I was expecting more'' from the very first boss in the game? You're either terrible at balance (if you truly wanted it harder) or you're just bragging.

I assume the latter.

Not a brag thread. Did you find the fight hard? If so I have to ask why? Several of this boss' attacks take quite literally around 1.5-2 seconds to release with very blatant cues for even the non-observant. Even then they are, as stated, mostly slow except the AoE explosion (very dodgeable but I totally get if many can't dodge that one) but this one has short range and is particularly unique cues and a slow action so you can very readily waltz out and then waltz back in after its done. The fire boss attacks are non-problematic if you explored a little and grabbed the fire resistance item, even at level 9 (which is basically no grinding), but even if you didn't grab it you can just spam dodge when the fire boss very rarely attacks.

You mention "stuck in the animation" and I quite clearly pointed out how to fix that with the input queue setting, which I reiterate was the only other reason I could imagine someone struggling on that boss but gave the tip on how to fix it for their future combat encounters.

This boss most definitely does not 1-shot you on hard. I was level 9 for this fight, and it is very unlikely the average player was lower level than that because I did not grind. I didn't get hit by every attack so many there is the odd one that does 1-shot like some of the jumping ones (?) but those are even easier to dodge so its non-issue and at worst you can just revive with some life bottles or Shion from the odd death.

You claim its a brag thread but you are over here exaggerating the fight and indicating you weren't dodging because you were locked into spamming attacks. You are exactly the type of person I'm making this thread to point out how to fix your issues so you stop struggling on a fight that sincerely was non-issue.

This wasn't a boss that was fast, had difficult to discern cues, or 1-shot (contrary to your claim), nor was it even an aggressive boss. Maybe tunnel vision less with spamming that next attack and leave some breathing room to react. Do the input queue suggestion as well. We see this in games like Dark Souls, too, because people get greedy on a boss or silly mob and die because they just had to get that last hit in. Patience. This isn't Megaman Battle Network where you gotta kill the boss in 0.32 seconds to get S rating.

Originally posted by Mr.Hmm:

Dodge? FOOL why would you DODGE?! take it all like a MAN and die over and over! /s

Yeah i kept dodging -> Counter Attacking him lol, he was the EASIEST boss out of all the bosses i faced... like god... he was super easy i yawned during the fight..

I feel ya. I haven't quite gotten down those abs of steel to stop a massive battle axe so I'm gonna stick to dodging, myself.

You're just proving you weren't listening to what I said, I assume.

When I am talking about animation canceling, I am talking about dark souls vs monster hunter world. No idea if you've played either, but in dark souls, you can freely dodge at any given time regardless of what action/attack you perform. You can INSTANTLY dodge no matter what attack you're in. This is what we refer to as no animation lock, as in, you are not committed to your attack.

In monster hunter world, i'd argue it's probably the best argument to show what animation lock is. A lot of the attack you do, you are stuck in your animation. The moment you start swinging your weapon, you will finish that attack. There are some attacks that don't do this but that's technical mechanical stuff. Overall once you start an attack, you are locked into that attacks animation until it's finished, then you can dodge.

Arise follows more so the World approach. Naturally i am not comparing the games directly, just that specific part. Once you, for example, use an arte or R1, you cannot dodge out of it (so far i've noticed) until your character finished his or her attack. This isn't a delay in dodging, this is literally not possible until your character finished his animation.

Which is unlike other tales games, where you can randomly and freely dodge instantly no matter what you're doing. This can throw people off. I know it threw me off.


We also have a misunderstanding when it comes to difficulty, it seems. The boss punishes you hard in one hit. Not everyone is of equal skill. When a boss can kill you in one hit, he's pretty punishing until you perfectly execute, which is near impossible the first time unless you play like a literal chicken. But to each their own.


You're also assuming I haven't beat him or had terrible difficulty with him? I did not. You can check my achievements and you'll see i've beat him. I didn't say he was hard in your sense of the word, but that he can be punishing. Nor was I directly referencing myself, since I am capable of empathy, I can understand why others have had troubles with him even i I didn't struggle too much myself.

Just because you're able to do something, doesn't suddenly mean it's a cakewalk just because you managed. That's as idiotic as a professional soccer player saying ''man soccer is so easy'' when he literally trained most of his life on it.

Not saying you trained most of your life on this, but I hope you understand what i'm getting at.

[omgwtflolbbl]

Something I didn't understand about the combat/dodging system at first is that once you stop putting in some kind of attack input, your character does a little finishing animation that you can't cancel out of (like a little flourish). That little bit of animation lock is not present whenever you're just chaining attacks together. That can make it feel like the dodging is not as responsive as you think it should be, because it feels like you should be done with your attack animation (and you would be if you were chaining attacks together) but you're actually stuck in a locked state. To be frank, I'm used to animation lock in other games but I dislike it here because there is an actually different timing that feels unnatural to me.