EXP gain curiousness.

[JudgementRyu]

So I'd been feeling like the exp gain was odd throughout the game, figured I'd check the enemy info and it doesn't list exp gain for enemies.
Having completed the third area and remembering I got 88 exp from the 2 boar fight in the start of Traslida Highway at some point. Went back to fight the same ones and now they give 13 exp.
I recall in past Tales games monsters just give set amounts of exp, no matter where you're at in the story or what level you are.
Anti grind measures in a single player game sounds pretty cancerous, especially considering they're selling level boosts. Not sure I like this turn Tales is taking.

[Leylin Cassiel]

It makes no sense for lower level enemies to give the exact same amount of exp to a party whose level has gone up since the last time they've fought said enemy.

[JudgementRyu]

I disagree, rpgs generally always have static exp gain from enemies. EXP needed to level only increases. There is no need to lower it unless they want to achieve something else like selling you crap. I'm not 100% sure yet if this is what they're doing, but it definitely is looking that way.

[Ender]

Originally posted by JudgementRyu:

So I'd been feeling like the exp gain was odd throughout the game, figured I'd check the enemy info and it doesn't list exp gain for enemies.
Having completed the third area and remembering I got 88 exp from the 2 boar fight in the start of Traslida Highway at some point. Went back to fight the same ones and now they give 13 exp.
I recall in past Tales games monsters just give set amounts of exp, no matter where you're at in the story or what level you are.
Anti grind measures in a single player game sounds pretty cancerous, especially considering they're selling level boosts. Not sure I like this turn Tales is taking.

I can't tell if you are being serious or just trolling, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Diminishing returns on under leveled enemies is extremely common in the genre, and has been for decades. Way before online DLC downloads were even possible.

In Tales of Arise, they did a very good job of balancing leveling with your progression in the story (at least for most play styles, which is really all you can ask for, and more than most succeed at). If nothing else, this confirms not based around the DLC (and I'm not going to begrudge them for selling boosts that let a single player play the game in a style other than what the developers intend for the best experience).

That said, your personal preference is just that. You can prefer a non-scaling exp system and not like their choice. But in the end it has minimal effect because if they didn't do that, they would instead raise the amount of required exp to level. In any case, you really shouldn't be grinding on trivially low level enemies in this game. Camping/inns are free so no matter the exp system I would still recommend fighting higher level enemies and restoring your health and cp more frequently for faster results.

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by JudgementRyu:

Anti grind measures in a single player game sounds pretty cancerous, especially considering they're selling level boosts. Not sure I like this turn Tales is taking.

Yep, this is one of my biggest complaints about the game. You're basically forced to fight at the same level as the enemies all the time, no matter how much you try to grind exp.

On the one hand it's the devs trying to ensure the game stays challenging from start to finish, and on the other hand its the devs trying to encourage players to buy MTX if they want to be overleveled.

[JudgementRyu]

Originally posted by Ender:

Originally posted by JudgementRyu:

So I'd been feeling like the exp gain was odd throughout the game, figured I'd check the enemy info and it doesn't list exp gain for enemies.
Having completed the third area and remembering I got 88 exp from the 2 boar fight in the start of Traslida Highway at some point. Went back to fight the same ones and now they give 13 exp.
I recall in past Tales games monsters just give set amounts of exp, no matter where you're at in the story or what level you are.
Anti grind measures in a single player game sounds pretty cancerous, especially considering they're selling level boosts. Not sure I like this turn Tales is taking.

I can't tell if you are being serious or just trolling, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Diminishing returns on under leveled enemies is extremely common in the genre, and has been for decades. Way before online DLC downloads were even possible.

In Tales of Arise, they did a very good job of balancing leveling with your progression in the story (at least for most play styles, which is really all you can ask for, and more than most succeed at). If nothing else, this confirms not based around the DLC (and I'm not going to begrudge them for selling boosts that let a single player play the game in a style other than what the developers intend for the best experience).

That said, your personal preference is just that. You can prefer a non-scaling exp system and not like their choice. But in the end it has minimal effect because if they didn't do that, they would instead raise the amount of required exp to level. In any case, you really shouldn't be grinding on trivially low level enemies in this game. Camping/inns are free so no matter the exp system I would still recommend fighting higher level enemies and restoring your health and cp more frequently for faster results.

Definitely not trolling and I will have to disagree on diminishing returns being common in single player rpgs. I don't recall any that I have played, western rpgs or jrpgs, that have done so. Only ever the simple exp needed to level increase, not lowered exp gain from enemies.
Also, that includes older Tales games. This was not a thing in the past. Bestiaries showing set exp gain is proof of that.

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by Ender:

In any case, you really shouldn't be grinding on trivially low level enemies in this game. Camping/inns are free so no matter the exp system I would still recommend fighting higher level enemies and restoring your health and cp more frequently for faster results.

The issue is that 90% of the time the bosses are 2-3 levels above you and the mobs are 3-5 levels below you so there are no higher level mobs to grind exp on so that you're at or above the boss's level.

The only time I was able to grind exp on higher level mobs was when I unlocked a sidequest that unlocked an area with lvl 66 enemies. I had to set the setting to "story" so that I could farm them for exp. Aside from that the game doesn't really give you higher level enemies to level. Mobs are typically at or below the party's level based on where you are in the main story.

[JudgementRyu]

I do agree that generally the challenge design is spot on for tales games on normal. They strike a good balance, but diminishing returns tilts that in the wrong direction. It should not be forced, and that is what that does.

[Zombina]

Originally posted by caev37:

Originally posted by JudgementRyu:

Anti grind measures in a single player game sounds pretty cancerous, especially considering they're selling level boosts. Not sure I like this turn Tales is taking.

Yep, this is one of my biggest complaints about the game. You're basically forced to fight at the same level as the enemies all the time, no matter how much you try to grind exp.

On the one hand it's the devs trying to ensure the game stays challenging from start to finish, and on the other hand its the devs trying to encourage players to buy MTX if they want to be overleveled.

I don't know about that but,spending money when leveling is easy on that game is meh . you love to grind or not. if the game is too hard play story mode and move on . about the "forced to fight the enemies at same level it's not true, you can fight a level 40 boss even at lower level,it will take more time but totally doable . you grind a zone until exp is low,you move next zone etc etc

[JudgementRyu]

Originally posted by Elfaniel:

Originally posted by caev37:

Yep, this is one of my biggest complaints about the game. You're basically forced to fight at the same level as the enemies all the time, no matter how much you try to grind exp.

On the one hand it's the devs trying to ensure the game stays challenging from start to finish, and on the other hand its the devs trying to encourage players to buy MTX if they want to be overleveled.

I don't know about that but,spending money when leveling is easy on that game is meh . you love to grind or not. if the game is too hard play story mode and move on . about the "forced to fight the enemies at same level it's not true, you can fight a level 40 boss even at lower level,it will take more time but totally doable . you grind a zone until exp is low,you move next zone etc etc

1 has nothing to do with loving grinding or not
2 "forced to fight enemies at the same level" has to do with exp gain, not being able to beat bosses or not

[Zombina]

Originally posted by JudgementRyu:

Originally posted by Elfaniel:

I don't know about that but,spending money when leveling is easy on that game is meh . you love to grind or not. if the game is too hard play story mode and move on . about the "forced to fight the enemies at same level it's not true, you can fight a level 40 boss even at lower level,it will take more time but totally doable . you grind a zone until exp is low,you move next zone etc etc

1 has nothing to do with loving grinding or not
2 "forced to fight enemies at the same level" has to do with exp gain, not being able to beat bosses or not

you can cook,you have plenty options to increase exp gain and it become even better later on .

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by Elfaniel:

I don't know about that but,spending money when leveling is easy on that game is meh . you love to grind or not. if the game is too hard play story mode and move on . about the "forced to fight the enemies at same level it's not true, you can fight a level 40 boss even at lower level,it will take more time but totally doable . you grind a zone until exp is low,you move next zone etc etc

This is the point lol. If you're lower leveled compared to the boss the boss is spongier and is harder to stagger. The fight becomes annoying because it takes much longer.

Moderate is a great difficulty for me, but it only works when I'm at the same level as the boss. If I'm below the fight is simply tedious.

Not to mention the game locks equipment to story progression as well. You can't upgrade your gear until you get to the next set of enemies that drop the next set of materials, so even if you did try to level grind you'd still be undergeared.

It's a flawed system.

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by Elfaniel:

you can cook,you have plenty options to increase exp gain and it become even better later on .

If you're at the same level as an enemy and getting like 100 exp using the EXP boost L won't make any difference.

[Leylin Cassiel]

I think some people just want to be overlevelled all the time. The thing is that there's no need to be overleveled to beat the bosses in this game (or to have fun). The game encourages you to be a couple levels lower than the boss in order to keep it challenging. If the challenge is too much you should probably change the difficulty setting.

You have to make sure that your equipment is up to date, that you use a good/appropriate camp meal (the one which lowers the elemental dmg received is amazing and from what I've heard quite necessary on higher difficulties) and that your accessories are as fine tuned as they could be (you can transfer skills between accessories). I see people mention tweaking with the ally AI (custom strategy) but in my experience that does not seem to do a whole lot of good (focus on healing seems to work best at all times, which is sad; AI in previous games was smarter).

Overall, this title is quite focused on dodging (or blocking as Kisara) and I think this mechanic is what makes things difficult for some of the players unwilling to turn down the difficulty level. Listen, you can't be good at every game.

After you finish the main storyline you DO unlock a way to grind exp (you can farm a level 95 boss) but that's for people who want the achievement (reach level 100). Artifacts also help here and so do some of the meals you can cook.

[Ka-mai19]

Originally posted by Leylin Cassiel:

I think some people just want to be overlevelled all the time. The thing is that there's no need to be overleveled to beat the bosses in this game (or to have fun). The game encourages you to be a couple levels lower than the boss in order to keep it challenging. If the challenge is too much you should probably change the difficulty setting.

What if being overleveled is part of the fun for you? Also OP is making the point that the game forces level progression at a set rate. This limits player freedom in choosing how much or how little they want to level and progress.

Pretty much all JRPGS have some form of level grinding in place either by having enemies give fixed exp and/or by including enemies like metal slimes which give tons of exp (even though they're hard to find). The fact that Arise doesn't really have that until much later in the game is disappointing.

[Zombina]

Originally posted by caev37:

Originally posted by Elfaniel:

I don't know about that but,spending money when leveling is easy on that game is meh . you love to grind or not. if the game is too hard play story mode and move on . about the "forced to fight the enemies at same level it's not true, you can fight a level 40 boss even at lower level,it will take more time but totally doable . you grind a zone until exp is low,you move next zone etc etc

This is the point lol. If you're lower leveled compared to the boss the boss is spongier and is harder to stagger. The fight becomes annoying because it takes much longer.

Moderate is a great difficulty for me, but it only works when I'm at the same level as the boss. If I'm below the fight is simply tedious.

Not to mention the game locks equipment to story progression as well. You can't upgrade your gear until you get to the next set of enemies that drop the next set of materials, so even if you did try to level grind you'd still be undergeared.

It's a flawed system.

that's why for boss fight you use accessories that reduce X elemental damage by -50% and the fight take another turn . even when the gears is locked by the story progression,you can still use the materials from the region you're in and use it to beat that level and you get more and more so that's not really an issue