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First of all you can't have all bosses defeated and be behind enemy level so much. If you are dealing with enemies that are 16+ higher than you, then I'm more than sure there are still plenty of enemies you haven't encountered and defeated yet. Some monsters become available only via sub-quest and some sub-quests are connected in chain. This means if you haven't done side quest A, then side quest B that spawns the monster won't become available to you and so on. You should be ~lvl 60 or more before fighting the last boss and after that a new area full of lvl60 - 95 enemies will become available for you with a special boss at lvl95 who can be repeatedly beaten for extra XP and SP.
I don't know what you've done so far but if you still think you've done everything and slack so much behind, then I'm sure you haven't done it all. Feel free to read a guide online if you can't find those extra monsters yourself.
Can you read? I'm talking about trying to finish these sidequests BEFORE you finish the main game, which the game pretty much makes impossible. It gives you these sidequests when you're around lvl 40-50 but you can't really complete them until you finish the game and access those new areas to make it up to lvl 55-60.
If I want the Golden Suit of Armor (80% more exp), for example, I need to finish a lvl 60 dungeon. Why do I need to wait until I finish the game to be able to take on that dungeon, when said dungeon becomes available way before you get to the end? Likewise if I want to beat one of the secret bosses at the tower I need to get to at least lvl 60 if I want to stand a chance in beating it since its lvl is in the 60s.
This is why I'm lvl grinding on the lvl 66 birds. I want to get to at least lvl 60 so that I can get into winnable range against these sidequests. I want to reach the end of the game having completed as much of the content as possible, after all.
It seems you can't read yourself. You are underleveled and try to do something you clearly aren't ready for. Just because you can beat those lvl66 birds does not mean you should be doing so over and over.
I explained how it goes in my previous post. Just before entering the final fight where the game warns you that there's no point back, you should be at lvl60 or so. If you haven't reached that point in the main story, then there is still more for you to go on. I can't tell you when that point does happen because that would be the spoiler, but something tells me you haven't reached it yet because area has lvl50 - lvl60 enemies there already.
There is no need to grind lvl66 birds in the tower. I strongly suggest you read the guide online because you might end up wasting too much time doing that instead of playing and enjoying the game while also getting the required level more naturally.
The point I've been making, which I've said multiple times, is that if I get a quest before I beat the game I want to complete it before I beat the game.
It, again, makes no sense to give your players an endgame quest before they reach the endgame. Nor the tools to get to the level to finish that endgame quest.
In literally every JRPG they have enemies like metal slimes that give players a buttload of exp so they can either meet greater challenges or become overpowered. This way the player controls the amount of power they build for their characters whenever they want and can therefore meet more difficult challenges earlier on. Or can be ready for endgame level content when they get to it.
Tales of Arise, apparently, doesn't do that. It gives you endgame level quests before you reach the endgame and expects the player to give up on them and do them later.
That AND also lvl up MTX. Just in case you don't wanna play the waiting game or complete the story first, you can just shell out $5-15 and be ready to go. That feels slimy.
I'd have much preferred if the quests showed up when you can actually do them rather than earlier on when you have no chance to complete them.
The lvl 30ish mantis is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ in that way, but at least you can defeat it before you beat the game. These endgame quests are not like that.
All I say is you can do all the stuff you said is not possible on high difficulty. For some reason, you complain that game doesn't allow you to do so on lower difficulty. At this point there's nothing else for me to add other than what I've said before.
Good luck and be patient with the game. Read guides if you still unsure about certain things how doubt certain game mechanics.
My guy, I've played through Tales of Symphonia, Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Vesperia, and Tales of Berseria. Not to mention games like Persona 5, Persona 5 Royal, Dragon Quest XI, Trails of Cold Steel 1-4, Trails in the Sky 1-3, Xenoblade Chronicles 1-2 and X, etc. I know how JRPGS are supposed to work, and giving me an endgame sidequest when I'm severely underleveled and have no way to reach that level unless I beat the game is just not good game design.
This is why those other JRPGS have monsters that give lots of exp and/or allow you to level grind so that you can control how powerful your characters become and how early or late. Arise forces you to level at the same pace as the main story even as it gives you endgame level quests to complete. The reason being, I imagine, to encourage players to buy the level up MTX.
I feel like this is a situation where you've arrived at a conclusion first (that the content is designed to force / encourage players to buy a microtransaction) without really thinking it through entirely.
Now, here's the thing. Maybe they did do what you're suggesting. Sure, fine.
That said, LOTS and lots of games, especially various flavors of JRPG, have post game content and new game+ and things of that sort. Lots of games have content locked behind bosses, including final bosses. Lots of games, especially Japanese games, have content that will be waved in front of the player but is generally designed to be done later.
Everything from Demon's Souls / Dark Souls, to Disgaea, to Dragon's Dogma, to various Final Fantasy games, Xenoblade Chronicles, and more I can't think of have this.
I think there's a good point in here about the game design decision to, for example, drop a lvl 40 something Mantis in in the first main area of the game when you are hopelessly underleveled. Is it possible to beat it? Sure. Would it take forever and be basically pointless? Pretty much. Is this good game design? I'm not sure. It gives you something to come back to later, something to constantly tickle your brain and remind you 'hey, can I beat that thing I found yet?' - and that aspect is probably fine. Then again, it's hard to determine when you CAN beat it without fighting it.
In fact I think the biggest flaw with that aspect of THIS game is general difficulty in determining when it is reasonable to do somethings. I also don't like the claustrophobic feel of the level design, and the fact that big powerful 'gigant' monsters mostly spawn in as a result of a quest as opposed to being just naturally found roaming - but that's my preference. It feels a bit tacked on, the way it is. I think some of this is part of the nature of the level design itself - every level being basically one long corridor. Hardly the only game or JRPG to do this, though.
Back to the argument at hand though - everything I've listed up there pre-dates microtransactions in concept, and LOTS of the games where this style of thing is presented to the player (impossibly hard challenges that can only be completed much later - including after the 'final boss') - most of the ones I've ever played didn't even have microtransactions in the first place.
I think this is a remnant or hallmark of a style of game design - NOT some kind of sinister plot to get people to buy MTX.
However, what I DO think is a bit of a shameless ploy to encourage DLC purchase is that the early game feels especially like HP sponge enemies - player has few synergies and little to do relatively, and without the DLC weapons fights are a bit slow. That and the crafting system requiring potentially lots of items. Without the DLC, its too much. With DLC turned on, it requires too little. Its a bit broken both ways.
/shrug
I can't say I'm an expert but there was a time when I played or didn't play games based on the post game, and I used to be something of a 'post game' completionist. I've put 1000s of hours into the Disgaea series, easily. So I feel knowleadeable on this. My favorite aspects of Dragon Quest games and Final Fantasy games have always been the post game grind. I'm not sure this game has that magic - I have a feeling it doesn't, but I haven't quite made it there. We will see.
The MTX push here is mostly at earlier game players, though, not because you end up in a spot needing to farm the same flock of birds over and over in the late game without it. That's silly. Any, my theory of where the MTX push is makes a hell of a lot more sense anyway... most game devs and publishers know that large percentages of players don't finish games they buy. You can see this in global achievement stats, especially in big AAA games.
Right, but how do you think a game like Dark Souls, for example, would function if you could buy soul levels as MTX? Wouldn't it feel as if the game is difficult to encourage MTX purchases and not just to have difficulty as a fun challenge?
This is why I feel the lvlup DLC makes the game's difficulty seem slimy, or designed to encourage MTX purchases rather than encourage enjoying the level of challenge the game provides.
Having endgame content has always been a regular part of JRPGS, but making lvls up a micro-transaction is a more recent invention. It's something that I'd expect from the likes of Ubisoft, who enjoy selling 2x exp DLC to their players.
Not to mention most, if not all, of those games (the JRPGS) let you level grind to your heart's content and you can fight bosses while being overleveled or over geared if you like.
This is not the case in Arise, where your level progression is strictly tied to your progression in the main story. If you think you can grind exp on same-level enemies, tough luck, since enemies give reduced exp if they're closer to your level.
Arise seems to want its players to be challenged at all times, which is fine, but it also wants players to buy MTX. This is why the design choice feels paradoxical/shady. As in, "you have to play through the game at the same level as your enemies or close to it... or you can buy MTX to give yourself an advantage :D."
Yep. Though the game immediately lets you know when you start a sidequest and get roflstomped by an enemy 10+ levels above you.
That's the point; you couldn't buy MTX to give yourself an edge before and now you can. So a design choice that felt par for the course now feels like its encouraging money purchases.
In the best case scenario Bamco is having its cake and trying to eat it too: "We'll create difficult challenges for the player to overcome, but we'll also sell MTX so they can overcome that challenge with money if they want."
I agree. Kisara's kit in the beginning, for example, is plain bad. The two DLC artes you get with her add significant variety.
I mean, if you want to complete those lvl 60 sidequests without beating the game that's pretty much what you have to do unless you wanna buy lvl ups.
But yes I agree the DLC are more likely marketed for early game players. Players who will likely encounter the lvl 30-40 mantis and go, "huh, if I buy 50 levels I can stomp it from the beginning!" and do so.
This is, again, proof of my point. The difficulty in this game feels traditional to a certain extent, but it also feels slimy because it encourages buying the dlc to overcome that challenge with little to no time or effort.
The worst crime here is an early game populated with HP sponge enemies that feel slower than they should to kill. Once you add in the DLC weapons, enemies speed up to something that feels much like the entire remainder of the game - though the DLC weapons get outclassed relatively quickly.
Some of the DLC arts are good, some arent. Some of the talents given are very good, some are just okay. All, arguably, increase character power.
The big criticism that I'd have is that those things should have all just been rolled into the main game. It seems pretty clear that the game was meant to be played, more or less, with the DLC stuff turned on. Though, as pointed out earlier I think with DLC trivializes the economy and item farming, while without it its too much of a grind. Probably should have been somewhere inbetween.
The game is still overall pretty fun and I'm happy with it. I've got a bit left to do and then I'll be done and move on. For a JRPG on PC, its one of the better available options - despite a boring story that treats a potentially interested topic with kids gloves and characters that, as is typical for the genre, make me want to claw my ears / eyes out.
The pacing is pretty variable and I think the end bits aren't done that well, but that's pretty stock standard for most games in and out of genre / series.
The combat is meh at first, but picks up and ends up being pretty enjoyable with a fair bit of variety. Boss fights don't feel as dynamic to me as trash fights because so many of the fun ways to control enemies don't work and the bosses end up being, again, giant HP sponges.
Pretty much always in a game like this, with MTX, those are marketed towards early game players, completionists, and weebs who want bikini and schoolgirl outfits. That's pretty much stock standard what you have here.
This entire argument seems to revolve around, unless I've completely misunderstood it, some kind of idea that any quest or challenge presented to the player should be able to be completed right away or very soon, reasonably, and that no challenge should be presented that cannot be reasonably completed prior to the 'final' boss.
Japanese games especially have sort of a long tradition of post-game content - so much so that it's pretty much expected from every fanbase of basically every series. These games are built from the ground up to house at least a few boss fights (almost always just reskins with HP upgrades and not much else) and other completion things locked away past the final boss.
This is just so stock standard at this point that it seems preposterous to propose it's some kind of weird scheme to get players to buy power.
There absolutely IS a developer and/or publisher led scheme here to get players to buy DLC/MTX/power, but it seems almost entirely targeted at early game players and completionists - something you don't seem to claim to be.
I also mentioned level grinding as a feature in every other JRPG. This game doesn't really have it, unless you count leveling up at the same rate as the main story and not beyond it.
Yep.
The game should either:
1. have the player start endgame quests during the endgame (when the player is at an appropriate level or can get to it reasonably well), not before, and/or
2. Allow the player to grind exp so they have a choice between giving themselves a challenge, meeting challenges at the set level, or being overleveled/overpowered.
This is what most other JRPGS have done. Even Soulsborne games+Sekiro, arguably the hardest action RPGs made, have a means for the player to grind levels or gear so that they can overcome tough challenges by being overlevelled. Or to do the reverse, to completely forego levelling+gear to create a unique challenge.
This is funny considering this is exactly what Bamco hopes players will do, if they do want players to buy MTX (which they do).
When I play a JRPG I enjoy being able to grind out levels/gear and feel as if my team is getting stronger. This is why in games like Dragon Quest, for example, I like finding and defeating metal slimes because they help make my team a lot stronger in less time (even though there's an element of RNG added in). With Arise this kind of enemy doesn't seem to exist and enemies give less exp the closer they are to my level. This makes me feel like the game wants me to buy the MTX so that I can have that same sense of power I get in other JRPGs, which I don't enjoy one bit.
In sum, I feel like I need to play Arise in a specific way and since I don't like it I need to shell out $$$ to play how I usually do. I say ♥♥♥♥ that I'm gonna level grind on lvl 66 birds so that I can complete content how I want to complete it.
Did not do any much grinding, just killed every single mob on each map I pass for the first time as usual.