Change up Sanity medication

[Ume Ito]

I think the fact that the sanity medications are so different in terms of design but function identically to each other, just restoring faster as you tier up (and the syringe's 10s sprint bonus) is a missed opportunity. Make different tiered equipment stand out more from each other imo.

Insane Away is a liquid remedy from ye olde days, how about it restores only some of the sanity that difficulty allows and also provides a minute or so of reduced sanity drain?

Let the pills be the bog standard; full sanity restoration that the difficulty allows in a short span of time, maybe the t3 10 second duration. No need to complicate these.

Then, the Adrenaline shot also gives reduced sanity like the remedy but specializes in that 10 second sprint timer.


I know this makes the pills the optimal choice for high sanity, but if you get good enough at dealing with hunts you don't need the sanity restoration anyway. Making the items actually stand out from each other would bring in a whole depth of loadout consideration, rather than "oh the tier 3 is just objectively better lemme slap it on because there is no rhyme or reason to use anything lower."

[WolfLink0370]

Hard no from me - you've missed the point completely in terms of how they work.

We don't need reduced sanity drain on them at all first off... that's the entire point of the firelight item set. Plus, room lights disable the sanity drain anyway.

Second off, and this is the bigger point that you've overlooked - the different healing rates ARE meant to be what identifies each item tier of the sanity medication here; as the medicine quality goes up... so does the speed at which your body can metabolize it.
Seriously, it should have honestly gone without saying, but taking pills to cure something would never be as fast as straight up injecting the medicine directly into your bloodstream.

[Emurinus]

I agree with the sentiment of having more items be sidegrades to each other even within their own tiers, but I don't think the idea of the passive sanity drain reduction should be something for the san meds since igniters and room lights already do that.

You could perhaps gear the reduction towards cursed object usage, or perhaps ghost related interactions instead such as ghost events. As a hypothetical example, the snake oil could reduce the (immediate) sanity loss from cursed objects, Tier 2 extends to ghost events/abilities instead of the COs, and T3 just remains the same. Each have a unique gimmick with a specific use case based off of your playstyle, and they all still restore the same level of sanity.

[Ume Ito]

引用自 Emurinus：

I agree with the sentiment of having more items be sidegrades to each other even within their own tiers, but I don't think the idea of the passive sanity drain reduction should be something for the san meds since igniters and room lights already do that.

You could perhaps gear the reduction towards cursed object usage, or perhaps ghost related interactions instead such as ghost events. As a hypothetical example, the snake oil could reduce the (immediate) sanity loss from cursed objects, Tier 2 extends to ghost events/abilities instead of the COs, and T3 just remains the same. Each have a unique gimmick with a specific use case based off of your playstyle, and they all still restore the same level of sanity.

ooh this is also a very interesting set of ideas, yeah i kinda forgot firelights reduce sanity drain lmao

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Second off, and this is the bigger point that you've overlooked - the different healing rates ARE meant to be what identifies each item tier of the sanity medication here; as the medicine quality goes up... so does the speed at which your body can metabolize it.
Seriously, it should have honestly gone without saying, but taking pills to cure something would never be as fast as straight up injecting the medicine directly into your bloodstream.

you missed the point of this thread

[halflife2]

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Hard no from me - you've missed the point completely in terms of how they work.

We don't need reduced sanity drain on them at all first off... that's the entire point of the firelight item set. Plus, room lights disable the sanity drain anyway.

Second off, and this is the bigger point that you've overlooked - the different healing rates ARE meant to be what identifies each item tier of the sanity medication here; as the medicine quality goes up... so does the speed at which your body can metabolize it.
Seriously, it should have honestly gone without saying, but taking pills to cure something would never be as fast as straight up injecting the medicine directly into your bloodstream.

The reduced sanity drain would be only immediately after taking them as an added "bonus" - I don't see a short-term sanity drain reduction breaking/unbalancing things particularly.

The healing rate is a bit of an empty feature really. Typically the meds are taken while in the van (and safe) and the times of even the slowest ones are generally quick enough to be complete before you've got back into the house.

I like the idea of a bit of variation to the different medications - instead of just change to the rate (and t3 boost to sprint)

[WolfLink0370]

引用自 halflife2：

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Hard no from me - you've missed the point completely in terms of how they work.

We don't need reduced sanity drain on them at all first off... that's the entire point of the firelight item set. Plus, room lights disable the sanity drain anyway.

Second off, and this is the bigger point that you've overlooked - the different healing rates ARE meant to be what identifies each item tier of the sanity medication here; as the medicine quality goes up... so does the speed at which your body can metabolize it.
Seriously, it should have honestly gone without saying, but taking pills to cure something would never be as fast as straight up injecting the medicine directly into your bloodstream.

The reduced sanity drain would be only immediately after taking them as an added "bonus" - I don't see a short-term sanity drain reduction breaking/unbalancing things particularly.

The healing rate is a bit of an empty feature really. Typically the meds are taken while in the van (and safe) and the times of even the slowest ones are generally quick enough to be complete before you've got back into the house.

I like the idea of a bit of variation to the different medications - instead of just change to the rate (and t3 boost to sprint)

Problem with giving the medication a Sanity Reduction effect is that such an effect not only literally exists in-game in the form of the Firelights, but said existing effects lasts for quite a decent amount of time to boot (5, 10, and infinite minutes respectively... and all of them only requiring you stay within 2 meters of them while they are lit up). The higher Firelight Tiers also give significantly more reduction as they go up in tiers (33%, 50%, and 66% respectively).

Also, the sanity reduction effect from the pills can also be completely wasted if you actually utilize the locations light switches (as all but the largest maps completely block sanity drain for having the main lights on). With the firelights, you can at least snuff out the candles yourself (the lantern meanwhile can stay lit... as it has infinite duration and isn't consumable)

So all in all, there is no point in giving the sanity medication such an effect... not when Candles/Lanterns can do that job far better already. I'm honestly fine with leaving them as is - no reason to have other items lose their identity just because one seems like it doesn't have one in the first place. The bottom line - the sanity medication doesn't need to flashy to be effective... it just needs to work period, which they obviously do.

Side note - the snake oil takes like 30 seconds to get the most out of one dose... so very likely you don't get the full benefit before returning to the house... unless you've been really indecisive with what to bring next.

[halflife2]

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Problem with giving the medication a Sanity Reduction effect is that such an effect not only literally exists in-game in the form of the Firelights, but said existing effects lasts for quite a decent amount of time to boot (5, 10, and infinite minutes respectively... and all of them only requiring you stay within 2 meters of them while they are lit up). The higher Firelight Tiers also give significantly more reduction as they go up in tiers (33%, 50%, and 66% respectively).

Also, the sanity reduction effect from the pills can also be completely wasted if you actually utilize the locations light switches (as all but the largest maps completely block sanity drain for having the main lights on). With the firelights, you can at least snuff out the candles yourself (the lantern meanwhile can stay lit... as it has infinite duration and isn't consumable)

So all in all, there is no point in giving the sanity medication such an effect... not when Candles/Lanterns can do that job far better already. I'm honestly fine with leaving them as is - no reason to have other items lose their identity just because one seems like it doesn't have one in the first place. The bottom line - the sanity medication doesn't need to flashy to be effective... it just needs to work period, which they obviously do.

Side note - the snake oil takes like 30 seconds to get the most out of one dose... so very likely you don't get the full benefit before returning to the house... unless you've been really indecisive with what to bring next.

That's a really weak argument for not including some sanity reduction - different items can produce similar effects. Already, for example, the UV torch does some of what an actual torch does. There is no reason you can't have overlap.

Despite there already being Firelights, adding a temporary sanity drain reduction could be useful for, say, getting back into the house to get to the breaker while not using up an inventory "slot" with a firelight (and not having to hold it in your hand). Simply swig a relevant sanity medication before going in and get sanity protect while you get in and switch the lights on.

The current sanity meds have practically no use over different tiers other than the sprint boost. I'd rather have some variation and overlap than meaningless upgrades.

[WolfLink0370]

引用自 halflife2：

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Problem with giving the medication a Sanity Reduction effect is that such an effect not only literally exists in-game in the form of the Firelights, but said existing effects lasts for quite a decent amount of time to boot (5, 10, and infinite minutes respectively... and all of them only requiring you stay within 2 meters of them while they are lit up). The higher Firelight Tiers also give significantly more reduction as they go up in tiers (33%, 50%, and 66% respectively).

Also, the sanity reduction effect from the pills can also be completely wasted if you actually utilize the locations light switches (as all but the largest maps completely block sanity drain for having the main lights on). With the firelights, you can at least snuff out the candles yourself (the lantern meanwhile can stay lit... as it has infinite duration and isn't consumable)

So all in all, there is no point in giving the sanity medication such an effect... not when Candles/Lanterns can do that job far better already. I'm honestly fine with leaving them as is - no reason to have other items lose their identity just because one seems like it doesn't have one in the first place. The bottom line - the sanity medication doesn't need to flashy to be effective... it just needs to work period, which they obviously do.

Side note - the snake oil takes like 30 seconds to get the most out of one dose... so very likely you don't get the full benefit before returning to the house... unless you've been really indecisive with what to bring next.

That's a really weak argument for not including some sanity reduction - different items can produce similar effects. Already, for example, the UV torch does some of what an actual torch does. There is no reason you can't have overlap.

Despite there already being Firelights, adding a temporary sanity drain reduction could be useful for, say, getting back into the house to get to the breaker while not using up an inventory "slot" with a firelight (and not having to hold it in your hand). Simply swig a relevant sanity medication before going in and get sanity protect while you get in and switch the lights on.

The current sanity meds have practically no use over different tiers other than the sprint boost. I'd rather have some variation and overlap than meaningless upgrades.

I honestly could say the same to your argument here - because the question isn't "can they be allowed to overlap"... but rather "SHOULD they be allowed to overlap"?

And the short and simple answer to that is "No, they shouldn't"... as the overall design of both items would then suffer from being too same-y... which in turn means the identity issue gets magnified (as now they have to also address the firelights as well as the sanity medication), not fixed outright.

And you're scenario is kind of terrible to be honest. If I was in that same situation and I was gonna rush the breaker... I'd just ignore the sanity protections completely anyway.
Seriously... it's not worth protecting what will end up being like 1-3% of my sanity for the 5-15 some odd seconds I'd be vulnerable to the passive drain (and if you don't believe that... I'd seriously consider looking at the finer mechanics of passive sanity drain on the wiki)

[halflife2]

This discussion is pretty pointless. You're cherry-picking points and making assertions with no actual substance. Why would they "suffer from being too same-y" when there is a slight overlap in function? I really don't see it. It's absolutely better to have some distinguishing detail between the 3 tiers of an item than to have them pretty much identical - there's not really any benefit in using T1 sanity against T2 sanity - and in most cases (unless you're going to take it into the building to get a boost to escape a hunt) T3. At least adding some minor secondary features gives things some variety and makes things more interesting.

The scenario I mentioned was just an "off the top of my head" example of how something such as that might be useful.

Even if the actual practicalities of the minor additional features was non-existent then at least it gives some detail and variety to those items rather than just being multiple tiers for the sake of needing 3 tiers. It certainly doesn't cause harm like you're implying.

[WolfLink0370]

引用自 halflife2：

This discussion is pretty pointless. You're cherry-picking points and making assertions with no actual substance. Why would they "suffer from being too same-y" when there is a slight overlap in function? I really don't see it.

Here's what you don't see... If both items offer sanity drain reduction - why would you ever bring firelights over sanity medication, other than to do Onryo Tests?

In other words - the proposed solution causes a new identity problem elsewhere.

But you're right, this discussion has gone on long enough. As I've stated multiple times now... Sanity Medication doesn't need any extra effects between it's tiers - the main effect of restoring sanity over 30/20/10 seconds is already too important, and should always be the primary reason you consume the item in the first place.

[halflife2]

引用自 WolfLink0370：

Here's what you don't see... If both items offer sanity drain reduction - why would you ever bring firelights over sanity medication, other than to do Onryo Tests?

Erm, because for the sanity pills it's only for a short period of time and one-shot. Similar effect, different scales. Different use cases. Not sure why you don't see that TBH.

[halflife2]

引用自 WolfLink0370：

....and should always be the primary reason you consume the item in the first place.

Yep. Absolutely. That's the *primary* reason for them - but for a little bit of extra flavour (just like T3 giving you extra sprint ability) there can be a secondary side-effect which may (or may not) have a use case but makes them more interesting. Some players might not care for instant sanity and prefer to make use of a (minor) secondary benefit (just like the sprinting).

[WolfLink0370]

引用自 halflife2：

引用自 WolfLink0370：

....and should always be the primary reason you consume the item in the first place.

Yep. Absolutely. That's the *primary* reason for them - but for a little bit of extra flavour (just like T3 giving you extra sprint ability) there can be a secondary side-effect which may (or may not) have a use case but makes them more interesting. Some players might not care for instant sanity and prefer to make use of a (minor) secondary benefit (just like the sprinting).

okay stop... right there. There's the problem you've not noticed about this yet - there does not need to be a secondary use case for the medication, and if there is... it should be synergistic with the heal, not be a choice between the two

And the infinite sprint is really only useful in one scenario - when you are trying to flee from the ghost... but at that point, you've most likely lost enough sanity that you'll still get the full heal out of using the Adrenaline Shot anyway - a best of both worlds... without needing to choose at all.

So in that regard - if anything, the medication should... IMHO... just provide more of the same - more healing, but in this case... I'm referring to debuff removals.

T1 can only remove the moroi's curse and nothing else.
T2 can, in addition to the Moroi curse removal, can also... once it is done healing your sanity... remove the detrimental blind/deaf effects from the Monkey Paw (not the slow effect though)
T3 can do all of the above, plus also still provide it's bonus infinite sprint effect.

[halflife2]

I presume you mean T1 can remove the Moroi curse *as well as* healing (otherwise it would be mostly pointless).

T2 would then only have an advantage with 1/7 of the cursed items - and only then for a specific use.

So it's essentially the same as now.

[Cool Cereal]

引用自 WolfLink0370：

T1 can only remove the moroi's curse and nothing else.
T2 can, in addition to the Moroi curse removal, can also... once it is done healing your sanity... remove the detrimental blind/deaf effects from the Monkey Paw (not the slow effect though)
T3 can do all of the above, plus also still provide it's bonus infinite sprint effect.

Wow… this is awful…

Half life’s suggestion makes more sense. Some overlap is fine.

[WolfLink0370]

引用自 Cool Cereal：

引用自 WolfLink0370：

T1 can only remove the moroi's curse and nothing else.
T2 can, in addition to the Moroi curse removal, can also... once it is done healing your sanity... remove the detrimental blind/deaf effects from the Monkey Paw (not the slow effect though)
T3 can do all of the above, plus also still provide it's bonus infinite sprint effect.

Wow… this is awful…

Half life’s suggestion makes more sense. Some overlap is fine.

I never said that idea was good to begin with first off... but then again... this thread was about giving the sanity medicine some identity between its tiered counterparts.

The problem is that, for how temporary the medicines effects are, they are better off not giving sanity drain reduction - not only does that feel like a waste of a heal, but the passive sanity drain itself is actually fairly slow, and benefits more from having a longer lasting protection... which means the firelights will always be the superior choice anyway.
(Seriously... look at the phasmo wiki for Sanity if you don't believe that - it apparently takes roughly 40 seconds on a small map to passively drain 10% of you sanity on Professional or higher, and that's not even factoring in whether or not you are playing solo... there is realistically no way the sanity medicine would last anywhere near long enough to make a noticeable reduction)

So if we want to go with something that gives the medicine identity... honestly a buff that only the pills provides makes the most sense. My best idea there... well first off I thought it was too potent, which is why I omitted it in that last post... but it would be a temporary increase in perception (can see deeper into the dark without a light source, can hear things further away, etc.) - The T1 and T3 can stay as they are otherwise (it makes sense for snake oil to not exactly have any extra benefits, and the Adrenaline Shot already applies it's own buff)