Still not generating 3 evidence

[Titanium Jesus]

It's been how many months guys? Come on. The game hasn't been generating the requisite amount of evidence to identify the ghost since something like February for any difficulty.

Get on it.

[Emurinus]

This is the first I've ever heard of this. I know some evidences are often annoying to acquire, most notoriously Writing and DOTS, but I've never had evidence that was flat out impossible to get ever since they made ghost orbs move around the room.

[Lewis]

Every single game I have ever played has placed the correct amount of evidence, so it's not a matter of 'Get on it.' as it is 'Get good.'

Look for longer, use SB when the lights are off and you're alone. Check for DOTS on video camera in case of Goryo. Check samples of the orbs if you haven't encountered them much. Lower your sanity enough to get ghost events and more frequent writing. It's not an issue with the game.

[Titanium Jesus]

Originally posted by Lewis:

Every single game I have ever played has placed the correct amount of evidence, so it's not a matter of 'Get on it.' as it is 'Get good.'

..

Ah yes, I was wondering when the obligatory "I've not noticed the problem you are facing so it clearly doesn't exist" faction would pop up.

This ignorance is cancer no matter where it is; and no, I am not being insulting. Me and all my friends simply stopped playing because we all experience it consistently. Just tried it again with the new update. 3 missions back to back over an hour each. We were in the house and ghost room, going through hunts, plus everything you mention and more for an HOUR before giving up on each one. Different hosts each time.

So don't give me the "it is fine for me so there's no problem" crap. I'm also by far not the only one who's reported this. It is absolutely a "get on it" issue.

And it's a shame too. The game has amazingly high potential; if only it would just function on its own basic premise reliably. I mean hell the in game voice chat STILL doesn't work properly after this last update. It's fine for me but not for two other friends. It simply won't transmit their voice above a 2db whisper no matter how much they yell into their mic, so we all need to use discord to communicate in game. At least the SB seems to be fixed now.

The game was by far too easy early on but it worked and it was fun to dabble for a couple hours or so. But over time it has gotten increasingly unreliable on basic game play.

[Lewis]

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

Originally posted by Lewis:

Every single game I have ever played has placed the correct amount of evidence, so it's not a matter of 'Get on it.' as it is 'Get good.'

..

Ah yes, I was wondering when the obligatory "I've not noticed the problem you are facing so it clearly doesn't exist" faction would pop up.

This ignorance is cancer no matter where it is; and no, I am not being insulting. Me and all my friends simply stopped playing because we all experience it consistently. Just tried it again with the new update. 3 missions back to back over an hour each. We were in the house and ghost room, going through hunts, plus everything you mention and more for an HOUR before giving up on each one. Different hosts each time.

So don't give me the "it is fine for me so there's no problem" crap. I'm also by far not the only one who's reported this. It is absolutely a "get on it" issue.

And it's a shame too. The game has amazingly high potential; if only it would just function on its own basic premise reliably. I mean hell the in game voice chat STILL doesn't work properly after this last update. It's fine for me but not for two other friends. It simply won't transmit their voice above a 2db whisper no matter how much they yell into their mic, so we all need to use discord to communicate in game. At least the SB seems to be fixed now.

The game was by far too easy early on but it worked and it was fun to dabble for a couple hours or so. But over time it has gotten increasingly unreliable on basic game play.

It's not ignorance, almost every single person playing this game will tell you that what you're saying is wrong. How long have you been playing?

[Titanium Jesus]

Well, again not intending to be insulting here, but you formed your entire initial argument on only the fact you didn't notice anything. You are correct saying "almost every single person playing this game will tell you that what you're saying is wrong." but the number of people saying this or that or another is almost entirely irrelevant don't you think?

When did I pick this up? After figuring out how to find it it looks like I've been playing it on and off since October 2020; the issue of evidence not generating has been specifically from now of course to approximately around February. Not a single instance of the problem as far as I could tell before that. 157 hours total if that makes a difference for you.


I want to reiterate, mostly because my opening post is absolutely not becoming, that I want to love the game and I did for a while until this issue made it impossible to complete a game.
Also thank you for taking the time to respond past "get good". If you have any ideas that can fix this we would be appreciative.

[StaticR]

The game is the same for everyone. If there was an issue with such prominent a core mechanic with the game itself it would be reported by pretty much every player. And it's way too specific to be an issue caused by a user's hardware or system environment like many crashes and graphical glitches are.

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

Ah yes, I was wondering when the obligatory "I've not noticed the problem you are facing so it clearly doesn't exist" faction would pop up.

It's less "not noticing" the problem and more "I have made direct observations that make the existence of the problem as it was described impossible". If the game had a problem with evidence, a core mechanic of the game, it would consistently be experienced by nearly everyone. The fact that many people are like "what do you mean it works fine for me every time" rather than complaining themselves means that the issue cannot exist on the game's side.
The evidences do all have some element of randomness to them but they're all fairly consistent so I wouldn't blame it on bad luck or something. It can happen in one game that an evidence just won't show up for because you got unlucky like 13 times in a row but that's a far outlier that only happens once every hundereds of games.

So the conclusion that somehow you must be the reason of the issue is a pretty reasonable one. It's most likely that you're missing or misunderstanding something. That's usually the case with issues like this. The good thing is that it's one that you yourself can fix very easily.
But I agree "git gud" won't help figure it out.

Probable causes may be
-You misunderstand the way some of the evidences work and therefore struggle to identify them. If you keep having problems with the same kinds of evidence that may be the case.
-You misidentify an evidence (Like the mist ghost event for freezing or a random reflection or snow for orbs) and rule out other evidence based on this.
-After getting 2 evidences you don't look for the last one with the same effort or rule out evidences too quickly after not getting them right away.
-By the time you try for the 3rd evidence, the ghost may have moved it's home room without you noticing and is no longer at your location. It's something that can happen on professional and higher, but is unlikely to be the reason for every time if the 3rd evidence ends up hard to find often.
-You tunnel vision on a room that ends up not actually being the ghost's home room and therefore you get low activity and hard to find evidence. If you get activity somewhere it's best practice to also check the rooms around it since the ghost can walk around. The ghost can also interact through walls if objects on the other side of the wall are within its interaction range.

Also in nightmare difficulty one evidence will be straight up disabled so the ghost will always only give 2 evidences and you have to figure out the rest by it's traits and abilities. (Note the mimic's orbs which will always be there because technically they are an ability and not evidence, so the mimic will always give it's normal evidence +orbs)

That's as much as I can say with the info given here. For anything more I'd need to know in more detail on how you approach each round and when and how the problems occur, which can be difficult over text.

[Lewis]

Originally posted by StaticR:

The game is the same for everyone. If there was an issue with such prominent a core mechanic with the game itself it would be reported by pretty much every player. And it's way too specific to be an issue caused by a user's hardware or system environment like many crashes and graphical glitches are.

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

Ah yes, I was wondering when the obligatory "I've not noticed the problem you are facing so it clearly doesn't exist" faction would pop up.

It's less "not noticing" the problem and more "I have made direct observations that make the existence of the problem as it was described impossible". If the game had a problem with evidence, a core mechanic of the game, it would consistently be experienced by nearly everyone. The fact that many people are like "what do you mean it works fine for me every time" rather than complaining themselves means that the issue cannot exist on the game's side.
The evidences do all have some element of randomness to them but they're all fairly consistent so I wouldn't blame it on bad luck or something. It can happen in one game that an evidence just won't show up for because you got unlucky like 13 times in a row but that's a far outlier that only happens once every hundereds of games.

So the conclusion that somehow you must be the reason of the issue is a pretty reasonable one. It's most likely that you're missing or misunderstanding something. That's usually the case with issues like this. The good thing is that it's one that you yourself can fix very easily...

Alongside this, being commanding and telling the devs to 'Get on it.' like you own them will get you answers like 'get good'

[Titanium Jesus]

"It's less "not noticing" the problem and more "I have made direct observations that make the existence of the problem as it was described impossible". If the game had a problem with evidence, a core mechanic of the game, it would consistently be experienced by nearly everyone. The fact that many people are like "what do you mean it works fine for me every time" rather than complaining themselves means that the issue cannot exist on the game's side.
The evidences do all have some element of randomness to them but they're all fairly consistent so I wouldn't blame it on bad luck or something. It can happen in one game that an evidence just won't show up for because you got unlucky like 13 times in a row but that's a far outlier that only happens once every hundereds of games.

So the conclusion that somehow you must be the reason of the issue is a pretty reasonable one. It's most likely that you're missing or misunderstanding something. That's usually the case with issues like this. The good thing is that it's one that you yourself can fix very easily.
But I agree "git gud" won't help figure it out.""

This is not how bugs work. Your observations compared to another's don't mean anything at all in terms of whether one exists or not. If it did then bugs would never exist because they would invariably be fixed by sheer fact that one person didn't see it. you can have a 99.9% success rate but still have a problem with the code activated by something sometimes completely unconnected to it directly. And you even touch on one of those factors. The code could have problems with certain hardware configurations and that is still a bug, depending on what it causes, mostly just being un-optimized. And that is still a game-side issue. Not saying there is no possibility of it still being an issue with us as players. That is possible. But from what we have done, seen, how these play out, and all other factors involved we can think of we can't fathom right now how this isn't caused by some bug somewhere.


"Probable causes may be
-You misunderstand the way some of the evidences work and therefore struggle to identify them. If you keep having problems with the same kinds of evidence that may be the case.
-You misidentify an evidence (Like the mist ghost event for freezing or a random reflection or snow for orbs) and rule out other evidence based on this.
-After getting 2 evidences you don't look for the last one with the same effort or rule out evidences too quickly after not getting them right away.
-By the time you try for the 3rd evidence, the ghost may have moved it's home room without you noticing and is no longer at your location. It's something that can happen on professional and higher, but is unlikely to be the reason for every time if the 3rd evidence ends up hard to find often.
-You tunnel vision on a room that ends up not actually being the ghost's home room and therefore you get low activity and hard to find evidence. If you get activity somewhere it's best practice to also check the rooms around it since the ghost can walk around. The ghost can also interact through walls if objects on the other side of the wall are within its interaction range."

These are all good hypotheses for a beginner player or someone new to gaming; my group and I did have the tunnel vision for a few runs before we decided not to trust the ghost's room anymore. But both myself and at least one other in my group have been actively researching things like the evidence, ghost types, whether the room can change, cursed effects, and as I do believe I already stated we have been searching the entire map for the last evidence when it isn't generating in what we have determined to be the room.
Also I did forget about nightmare difficulty. Since we were all having basically nightmare level evidence BS (Forcing players to guess the last evidence especially when numerous ghosts act very similarly in a game about evidence collection is... :/) on intermediate and professional we never entertained the though of trying nightmare.

Just want to mention that yah, Lewis, I recognize that I kind of brought "git gud"on myself for my opening post. I called it unbecoming because of that. Next time I'll need to remember to wait until I have more control of myself.

I'll try to explain in enough detail how we tend to go about our runs subsequently to keep it uncluttered.

[Titanium Jesus]

Typical mission run is just two of us and starts with one of us going strait for power while the other grabs the video cam to search for orbs throughout the map if it is small enough. If it is larger they grab the parabolic. When using the parabolic we normally find the ghost room within a few minutes and have at least one evidence in the room to substantiate. From there we grab more equipment and bring it in. If we don't have any orbs we set up one or two cams in the room for full coverage and if we don't get an orb we manually take it and search the surrounding area. while the other will attempt to achieve a ghost box response both in the room and around it. If we get no orbs we put it down for the time being to focus on other evidence. Should we not get a ghost box response we will do the same but leave it on in or close to the room. At this point we begin to search for everything kind of equally. The books will be down already and moved to places we find the most activity in. UVíng every surface that prints can be left, setting up a cam to look at the dots projector, the works. Going to the truck to look through the cam for several minutes at a time every time we move the dots projector.

If we don't hear or see anything going on in the room we make sure it is the correct one by searching the building again starting with the immediate area. most times it just reconfirms the room but occasionally we discover it was another room after all and begin the process anew. Typically we have 2 solid evidence within about 10 minutes or less of having left the truck. This is when it just breaks. I can count on one hand the number of times the game, at least seemingly, never generated even a second evidence, but at this point that's it. There is never any more evidence generated. Even checking the entire map numerous times with the thermometer won't grant low temperatures anywhere for a freezing ghost if that is the third one, even if the room has been confirmed via the luigi board. Going through the hunts and persisting trying to find the evidence until we either give up 40 minutes later or die.

We will check again and again if we aren't 100% certain we have found the ghost room and also that it hasn't moved. Especially if we find the ghost roams a lot. In the end we have to guess. If it's a ghost acting in a way that only 1 or 2 usually do based on their descriptions we have a fairly good success rate. But since most of them act roughly the same it's a gamble now with the bloated ghost list.

Many times too we will be sure it is a demon or oni for example because it hunts every 20 seconds right from when we first entered the house and have 2 of 3 for it but then we leave and the game will say it was a more passive ghost.

[Lewis]

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

Typical mission run is just two of us and starts with one of us going strait for power while the other grabs the video cam to search for orbs throughout the map if it is small enough. If it is larger they grab the parabolic. When using the parabolic we normally find the ghost room within a few minutes and have at least one evidence in the room to substantiate. From there we grab more equipment and bring it in. If we don't have any orbs we set up one or two cams in the room for full coverage and if we don't get an orb we manually take it and search the surrounding area. while the other will attempt to achieve a ghost box response both in the room and around it. If we get no orbs we put it down for the time being to focus on other evidence. Should we not get a ghost box response we will do the same but leave it on in or close to the room. At this point we begin to search for everything kind of equally. The books will be down already and moved to places we find the most activity in. UVíng every surface that prints can be left, setting up a cam to look at the dots projector, the works. Going to the truck to look through the cam for several minutes at a time every time we move the dots projector.

If we don't hear or see anything going on in the room we make sure it is the correct one by searching the building again starting with the immediate area. most times it just reconfirms the room but occasionally we discover it was another room after all and begin the process anew. Typically we have 2 solid evidence within about 10 minutes or less of having left the truck. This is when it just breaks. I can count on one hand the number of times the game, at least seemingly, never generated even a second evidence, but at this point that's it. There is never any more evidence generated. Even checking the entire map numerous times with the thermometer won't grant low temperatures anywhere for a freezing ghost if that is the third one, even if the room has been confirmed via the luigi board. Going through the hunts and persisting trying to find the evidence until we either give up 40 minutes later or die.

We will check again and again if we aren't 100% certain we have found the ghost room and also that it hasn't moved. Especially if we find the ghost roams a lot. In the end we have to guess. If it's a ghost acting in a way that only 1 or 2 usually do based on their descriptions we have a fairly good success rate. But since most of them act roughly the same it's a gamble now with the bloated ghost list.

Many times too we will be sure it is a demon or oni for example because it hunts every 20 seconds right from when we first entered the house and have 2 of 3 for it but then we leave and the game will say it was a more passive ghost.

Does this happen every single game, or just every now and then? If it's every single game I'd be happy to play with you to verify that it's a bug

[Titanium Jesus]

Not every single game but at least 70% of them. We got fed up with it of course but next time we do give it a go I would be more than happy to have you along.

[Lewis]

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

Not every single game but at least 70% of them. We got fed up with it of course but next time we do give it a go I would be more than happy to have you along.

I've added you. Let me know when you're free and we'll give it a hack

[Titanium Jesus]

Thanks for sparing your time. I'll let you know when the both of us are free for it.