The problem of difficulty.

[Ruxari the Kitsune]

This game is an incredible idea that I love and wish to see it continue and it has a huge amount of fun to it but there are many glaring problems within it. While the obvious glitches and bugs are almost certain to be fixed and the lack of content such as maps are likely to be improved on there is one facet that I fear might go unsolved and that is simply the games difficulty.

Put it simply this game is far too easy in general and what is and isn't difficult tends to be very unexpected. Fair warning there will be spoilers and mechanics ahead that may ruin your fun to know.

The main first point is the difficulty of maps and why they are or are not difficult. The first issue is that it is almost impossible to actually die to hunts in the larger maps if you know what you are doing unless you are insanely unlucky. Due to how the ghost tracks players often just running into the nearest room and crouching behind something will almost always ensure your safety, and that's assuming the ghost is even anywhere near you. Even if the ghost starts it hunt so close that you don't think you can safely duck into a room, though you probably still can, it's possible to just outrun most of the ghosts sprinting in a straight line down long hallways. While smaller maps are actually harder you have an even better chance to hide in the magical bull that is closets. Ghosts will NEVER path into closets unless it's a wraith meaning so long as it wasn't right behind you it will never find you. A possible solution I've come up with is maybe scaling the ghosts speed based on the sanity of it's target so it gets faster if you're on low sanity meaning you can't just forever stall out the game running away during hunts, especially on larger maps. Also while I do think ghosts other then a wraith shouldn't move through walls I think all ghosts should be able to move through furniture inside the house. As funny as it is watching someone kite out a ghost around a couch or that island in the kitchen it's so easy to actually do with any ghost that isn't having a speed boost that it's kind of pathetic.

The second main point is the differences between difficulty levels. While it does change a number of things most of the changes feel very minor and lack any actual impact. The main functional draw is the fact that sanity drains faster but if you're a good player you spend little to no time standing in the dark so the increased drain isn't as effective as you think. There is very little reason to stand around in the dark for more then 5 seconds. Then you have the shortened or non-existant safety timer. But again that really doesn't matter because even on professional if the ghost doesn't turn the power off a lot or have a form of sanity drain you're not likely to even be low on sanity by the time 5 mins is over. Also for anyone wondering, you can get most of the evidence in a fully lit room. Temprature, EMF, and prints can be found in a lit room, though prints are much easier to see in the dark. The book and ghost orbs only ever need the room to be dark when you are not in it. As for the spirit box, while yes you need to be in the dark but if you have the right room you can probably get an answer in 3 questions. Take no more then 5-6 seconds when you try and if you haven't gotten it within 2-3 tries it's likely not that and only go back to it if you got a stingy ghost. The final notable effect is ramped up ghost AI and for the moment I don't have too much to say about that other then what I will in the last section.

The final point for it being too easy is the economy. To put it blunt the economy in this game as it stands is awful. I have 3k in the bank and a full allotment of items for a hunt. If you have a sugar daddy or are good at the game and rarely die you will have no problem quickly running out of things to buy. I feel that consumables like salt and smudge sticks should actually be consumed if used so you have something to pay for. If that's not enough maybe on the harder difficulties charge for items left in the house (retrieval fee) or maybe just make them be lost so you force people to go in and actually get their cameras and sensors they often just throw on the ground and forget about. Beyond the economy some of the items feel unbalanced though it's hard to tell how much of that is bugs vs how they actually work and I think it also heavily ties into my next issue.

So while most of the game is too easy sometimes the game currently decides to throw a bug or some crazy rng that can make certain things nearly impossible. Getting pictures of footsteps is more often not working than is for me and sometimes I get a super stingy ghost. This may be more on the side of bugs or just really bad rng but sometimes I get a ghost that never shows one or two of their evidences. I've had EMF ghosts give me dozens of EMF 2 levels and not one 5, I've had freezing ghosts never get the room temp below 14C, and I've had ghost writers with the biggest cast of writers block I've ever seen not write with over a half hour of two books in their room. I'm actually for making evidences harder to get on harder difficulties though at the moment sometimes it just feels like an impossible tasks and it's better to just guess or go off of ghost behavior (which is also super rng sometimes)

I really hope this game goes further. I wan't more. I want it to be more tense and frightening. And no matter how many jumpy spoops get added or mildly unsettling events it will quickly lose a lot of it's intensity and fright if you realize the opposition has object perminence of a toddler and the speed of a turtle and poses suprisingly little threat. Please do not take this as a hate thread. I love this game. That's the reason I care so much and hope things like this get improved.

[Ruxari the Kitsune]

Yea challenges like that can certainly help. Me and my friend force ourselves to retrieve our equipment. We can't leave if we don't get our cameras and stuff.

[Radiant aka Sol]

I agree on the economy being pretty unbalanced.
But that is not the only thing "unbalanced" as there are many inconsistencies/bugs within the game:

1. Ghosts sometimes just won't deliver the 3rd clue. Examples: Mares that never pushed temperatures to freezing levels; Djinn that never wanted to talk to someone in a fully darkened room with a lone person on the spiritbox; <insert random clue here>


2. Crucifixes and other defensive mechanisms...there are many guides out there that explain the game in depth but:

I still don't know if crucifixes work in your hand, inventory and/or when thrown on the ground. (guides say mostly that crucifixes are preventive measures and others say it works active too while others died with cross in hand)

Salt is supposed to work like a footprint scanner or have some defensive properties too?

Smudge sticks are they just there for taking up space in your inventory while you run to do the objective?

[Smoking Chihuahua]

Originally posted by The Radiant One:

I agree on the economy being pretty unbalanced.
But that is not the only thing "unbalanced" as there are many inconsistencies/bugs within the game:

1. Ghosts sometimes just won't deliver the 3rd clue. Examples: Mares that never pushed temperatures to freezing levels; Djinn that never wanted to talk to someone in a fully darkened room with a lone person on the spiritbox; <insert random clue here>


2. Crucifixes and other defensive mechanisms...there are many guides out there that explain the game in depth but:

I still don't know if crucifixes work in your hand, inventory and/or when thrown on the ground. (guides say mostly that crucifixes are preventive measures and others say it works active too while others died with cross in hand)

Salt is supposed to work like a footprint scanner or have some defensive properties too?

Smudge sticks are they just there for taking up space in your inventory while you run to do the objective?

Crucifixes salt and smudges have general uses but also have ghost specific uses read the journal the ghost weakness will tell you what items to use .The tools section will tell you the general use for each item. press j in game.

Crucifixes do not work in ur hand
I don't want to type out a hole book on how to use everything just go to DuskTheViking on youtube and watch his 2 guide videos.

[Ruxari the Kitsune]

Most of the items are actually relatively balanced and only have small bugs or wonky mechanics like the thermo reading from the handle. That's why I was more miffed at the economy then the actual items themselves. Crucifixes do NOT work in hand though once or twice I'm sure I saw a hunt start right on top of one so they are not 100%. Though honestly I don't see why they wouldn't work in your hand so I think that's a coding thing and I wouldn't put it past a bug that sometimes makes one in hand work.

Smudge sticks are actually super strong and maybe even op if you use them right. If you are being hunted and have a smudge stick if you light it when they are close they will stop chasing you for 5 whole seconds. That's insane. Also if you are not being hunted and you light one up within a very close distance of the ghost it will disable it's ability to hunt for a time.

[󠁳⁧⁧ N1ght_Gu4rd]

Originally posted by Paxton:

Originally posted by The Radiant One:

I agree on the economy being pretty unbalanced.
But that is not the only thing "unbalanced" as there are many inconsistencies/bugs within the game:

1. Ghosts sometimes just won't deliver the 3rd clue. Examples: Mares that never pushed temperatures to freezing levels; Djinn that never wanted to talk to someone in a fully darkened room with a lone person on the spiritbox; <insert random clue here>


2. Crucifixes and other defensive mechanisms...there are many guides out there that explain the game in depth but:

I still don't know if crucifixes work in your hand, inventory and/or when thrown on the ground. (guides say mostly that crucifixes are preventive measures and others say it works active too while others died with cross in hand)

Salt is supposed to work like a footprint scanner or have some defensive properties too?

Smudge sticks are they just there for taking up space in your inventory while you run to do the objective?

Crucifixes salt and smudges have general uses but also have ghost specific uses read the journal the ghost weakness will tell you what items to use .The tools section will tell you the general use for each item. press j in game.

Crucifixes do not work in ur hand
I don't want to type out a hole book on how to use everything just go to DuskTheViking on youtube and watch his 2 guide videos.

Just wanted to correct You. Crucifixes DO work in your hand. When I prevented a ghost attack with a crucifix, It disappeared from my hand. Also the task was shown as completed on the white board.

[Ruxari the Kitsune]

Afaik the game code says they shouldn't. But again this games code is held together by scotch tape atm. Also some mechanics differ between VR and non VR like EMF readers. So I wouldn't be suprised it it worked in your hand for VR but not for non VR or something silly like that.

[Hex: Alex]

The best idea I had for difficulty, especially for hunts, was that the Ghost hunting should ramp up in speed each hunt, making each subsequent hunt more and more efficient for the ghost being able to outrun players. They should also have their speed improve through the hunt, the longer they hunt, the faster they could get (to a max)

The only other thing I could think of to add would be if a hunt activated in a larger map, the ghost room should move, making it a lot more challenging to pin down the ghost. Or make it so that if the ghost cannot see anyone, and the breaker is on, to just go turn off the breaker.

If this happens basically, you could enter the first hunt
You get a single piece of evidence
The ghost turns off the breaker
you're forced into darkness and sanity draining while trying to bring it back online
You now have to find the new room for more evidence
More hunts inbound.

Other alternatives to difficulty would be including a potential option that would add 2 ghosts into the mix, meaning you could get 2 ghosts giving different signals of what type of ghost it could be.


Improved Ai certainly should be a thing, but if they're compensated with improved mobility for the time being, it wouldn't be necessary

[Ruxari the Kitsune]

Originally posted by Alex:

The best idea I had for difficulty, especially for hunts, was that the Ghost hunting should ramp up in speed each hunt, making each subsequent hunt more and more efficient for the ghost being able to outrun players. They should also have their speed improve through the hunt, the longer they hunt, the faster they could get (to a max)

The only other thing I could think of to add would be if a hunt activated in a larger map, the ghost room should move, making it a lot more challenging to pin down the ghost. Or make it so that if the ghost cannot see anyone, and the breaker is on, to just go turn off the breaker.

If this happens basically, you could enter the first hunt
You get a single piece of evidence
The ghost turns off the breaker
you're forced into darkness and sanity draining while trying to bring it back online
You now have to find the new room for more evidence
More hunts inbound.

Other alternatives to difficulty would be including a potential option that would add 2 ghosts into the mix, meaning you could get 2 ghosts giving different signals of what type of ghost it could be.


Improved Ai certainly should be a thing, but if they're compensated with improved mobility for the time being, it wouldn't be necessary

Getting more speed over some sort of metric is definatly a likely help though the ability to hide so easily would still be a huge issue. However at this point moving the ghost room on a larger map would be a little too punishing. I've had maps where we get hunted every 15 seconds at 0% sanity due to a stingy ghost, just being a yurei, or it being large with only 2 people and getting unlucky. There is just no way you could ever scan even some of the small maps in 15 seconds.

Having two ghosts is likely going to be way to hard to implement.

[Hex: Alex]

Originally posted by Ruxari the Hyena:

Getting more speed over some sort of metric is definatly a likely help though the ability to hide so easily would still be a huge issue. However at this point moving the ghost room on a larger map would be a little too punishing. I've had maps where we get hunted every 15 seconds at 0% sanity due to a stingy ghost or it being large with only 2 people and getting unlucky.

Having two ghosts is likely going to be way to hard to implement.

I think the 2 ghosts and moving room would be punishing and be a last resort for difficulty, but if the movement of the ghosts were to rise, it wouldn't be so fun to manage each time, knowing full well if you're on the bottom floor of the asylum and you start a hunt that escape is just going to become more and more challenging.

The other minor issue I could point out is sometimes this game is too easy, because the detection tools are too universal and good. having an emf reader with thermo/mic can instantly find a ghost regardless of which one it is. If we had a few of them that didn't emmit emf readings, or make noise that could be picked up, some of the detection would be more challenging.

I have to also always think of this as a 4 player game, as a solo, yeah not having items to detect a ghost can be quite frustrating, but conversly if you have too many items that work for everything, then they're just the best items to always bring.

When I was new, I thought Cameras were the be all end all god item, now realising they're not the most useful and kinda suck. I would rather be required to bring a camera before any other item, as it can obviously see the most, but only from the truck, making missions take more time to setup giving more time to lose sanity.

It's really tough to think of what should be done.

[Lightzor]

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

I have many issues with the fundamentals of this game, but overall it is a very solid release.

1) Can't change basic options in a Lobby: This should be a basic feature of any game post N64 era.. I honestly don't know how this was left out.

2) The movement speed is excruciating: I have no issue with the walking speed, but it is EXTREMELY hard to be afraid of a ghost who can't catch a man who walks so slow he would have to speed up to stop. When a hunt starts, make the players' speed spike to make them panic. And as a result, boost the ghost's speed to make people unable to outrun them. You have to actually be fast and hide now, making hunts threatening. I don't know, something is better than walking as fast as a 80 year old grandma when you are supposed to be "running for your life" from a ghost who wants to snap your neck.

3) The economy and Theft: Like above, it is pretty hard to actually have monetary issues. And people tend to steal key items and either stash them on large maps and leave, or hold the game hostage with them in their inventory. A kick feature mid-game can fix this, and would need a 100% turnout to prevent this turning into slave labor like Payday 2 where you get kicked at the end of a match by the host after doing all the work, for no reason other than to be a ♥♥♥♥.

There are two ways to fix the system. Make it where everything is consumed and you have to buy in bulk, or items have a chance to break. If the latter is selected, players need a heads up what broke at the end screen. Also, there should be some way to prevent a guy camping in the truck if he bought all the gear. AND, people who bring gear maybe should receive more of a payout for actually contributing, versus the freeloaders who expect Daddy Level 50 to hand them a participation ribbon.

This is no way supposed to be a flame post, or made out of hate. I am actually level 50, and I have denied offer after offer for people to play with me, because I feel like they just want my gear for one, and two, I finish the small maps in under 3 minutes solo.. The game is just too easy in its current state, and death should not be something to be laughed at if you take no gear. I think this game is great, has a few good scares, but after the first three hours it grows old very fast, to the point I may get an occassional "Oh ♥♥♥♥, didn't think you would pop up here across the building to say hi.", but other than surprise appearances, I'm not scared at all. I just don't want this to be a game that loses its fanbase due to becoming stale, and having people stop tracking it and not see the updates come out, because that is what is happening fast.

The game is worth its price in my opinion, but it needs some love or it won't keep its popularity.